Behringer X32 Firmware v3.0 Feature Requests

Re: Behringer X32 Firmware v3.0 Feature Requests

peter christopher said:
That's a great idea and I have thought of using it. However, we have maxed out the use of the matrix mixes.

Having a separate trim would help in configuring delay fills etc, without using up a matrix or mix buss.

Eg. I usually duplicate the main outputs across six XLR outputs, to feed different speakers. So, having a gain trim along with delay knob would be most useful during system setup.
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If I understand you correctly you are routing the left and right to the matrix and using the matrix almost as one would normally use a DSP (Digital Speaker Processor). If that is correct then your volunteer crew shouldn’t be changing the levels on the Matrix level. You don’t want them to change the relationship of how much goes to the delays and where ever else the Matrix outs feed. So this is ideal for using those Matrix outs as the trims. Just drop those outputs the 5 or 6db that you want and have them control the overall output with the L/R fader. I did this method in a church with their X32 because at the levels they wanted the L/R fader had to be down towards the bottom of its travel and a little physical change (movement) made a big change in level. So I routed it to the matrix and brought them down and they had more play in the L/R master.

If you have any DCA faders left over you can also do what I like to. I use the mix buses as my groups and then assign DCA-8 to control only those mix buses giving me an overall DCA master.
 
Re: Behringer X32 Firmware v3.0 Feature Requests

I'm surprised this feature didn't come with the X32, and even more surprised that nobody's asked it (apologies if I've missed it - I read the first 16 pages but only skimmed the rest!)...

I think you should be able to set the gain functionality so that as you alter the channel gain, the bus sends for the channel are automatically compensated. So if a channel is clipping you can simply reduce the gain and the channel fader plus all bus sends will be increased proportionately.

I've seen this feature on a bigger desk (can't remember what) and once you've seen it work it seems like a no-brainer.

Of course the ability to choose which busses track and which don't would be nice too...
 
Re: Behringer X32 Firmware v3.0 Feature Requests

Ian Rogerson said:
I think you should be able to set the gain functionality so that as you alter the channel gain, the bus sends for the channel are automatically compensated. So if a channel is clipping you can simply reduce the gain and the channel fader plus all bus sends will be increased proportionately.
Of course the ability to choose which busses track and which don't would be nice too...
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I too am really surprised this feature isn't on most all digital desks with digitally controlled gains. Obviously post-fader sends shouldn't be included but why would you want to be able to defeat it on pre-fader sends?
 
Re: Behringer X32 Firmware v3.0 Feature Requests

Ian Rogerson said:
I'm surprised this feature didn't come with the X32, and even more surprised that nobody's asked it (apologies if I've missed it - I read the first 16 pages but only skimmed the rest!)...

I think you should be able to set the gain functionality so that as you alter the channel gain, the bus sends for the channel are automatically compensated. So if a channel is clipping you can simply reduce the gain and the channel fader plus all bus sends will be increased proportionately.

I've seen this feature on a bigger desk (can't remember what) and once you've seen it work it seems like a no-brainer.

Of course the ability to choose which busses track and which don't would be nice too...
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Would if you have the HA gain set, then the volume or loudness of the sound increases so you turn down the HA gain to the proper level...but since the fader has automatically increased, now the volume is still too loud so you then have to pull down the fader below unity. I know you could turn off the feature..but would if you had it enabled in this case...you'd be fighting the automatic feature of the console and it would take longer and more steps to retuce the HA gain, then pull down the fader to reduce the loudness if the channel.
What about the inverse case, you're setting the HA gain for a mic...you set the fader at unity then turn up the HA gain...would the fader reduce automatically? Again you're fighting the console. I'm just thinking if other citations.
 
Re: Behringer X32 Firmware v3.0 Feature Requests

The only practical way then I can see this particular feature working is if you defined a shift key which, if it was held down while you were adjusting the gain on a channel input, compensated the relevant pass levels on that channel, the effects ends, the channel fader, etc. That way, you could do this to avoid input preamp peaks, but make normal adjustments if that was what you needed.
 
Re: Behringer X32 Firmware v3.0 Feature Requests

It wouldn't be the first time that after soundcheck the guitar player, keyboards etc. are way louder.
Reducing gain while leaving the monitor sends at exactly the same level can be very handy. Mostly I try to keep gains quite low to avoid these risks, I wouldn't mind a automatic levelling / compensation when adjusting gain, if signal to the PA is to strong I can reduce it anyway with the fader.
Nice feature!
 
Re: Behringer X32 Firmware v3.0 Feature Requests

Kevin Maxwell said:
I did this method in a church with their X32 because at the levels they wanted the L/R fader had to be down towards the bottom of its travel and a little physical change (movement) made a big change in level. So I routed it to the matrix and brought them down and they had more play in the L/R master.
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Sounds more like a mismatch in gain structure behind (or in) the X32. When the output levels have to be reduced so much it will have impact on the signal to noise ratio, why use 24 bit converters when you don't use 5-6 bits or more... What are the meter reading telling you?
 
Re: Behringer X32 Firmware v3.0 Feature Requests

Antoon van den Oetelaar said:
Sounds more like a mismatch in gain structure behind (or in) the X32. When the output levels have to be reduced so much it will have impact on the signal to noise ratio, why use 24 bit converters when you don't use 5-6 bits or more... What are the meter reading telling you?
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What is happening is actually exactly the opposite as to what you think is happening. All the levels and metering are up there, nice hot signal all the way thru the mixer. And that is why it is too loud thru the speakers if the left /right is used as the main output and the fader was brought up with any play in it.

I could have reduced the trim on the amps but I like to run amps wide open so someone can’t make a change back stage and increase the send to the speakers. By routing it thru the matrix and bringing the overall output of the board down they have more of a range of use of the L/R fader. They don’t even go to the matrix to adjust anything, everything they need is on the first layer. And the signal to noise ratio is very good with the system fully on you don’t hear anything until they start playing, singing or talking. So it is using a lot more then 5 to 6 bits of the 24 bit converters.

Someone on the Behringer forum has been asking for another gain stage at the output for the X32 (so they can trim the outputs down) and I don’t see the need for that at all if you know how to set it up like I did.
 
Re: Behringer X32 Firmware v3.0 Feature Requests

In a perfect world, another gain stage on the output would not be needed but they are very handy for recording and sending audio feeds to video world and be able to keep the FOH gain structure the same. I use matrixes to accomplish this now but miss this feature from my Yamaha console
 
Re: Behringer X32 Firmware v3.0 Feature Requests

Antoon van den Oetelaar said:
It wouldn't be the first time that after soundcheck the guitar player, keyboards etc. are way louder.
Reducing gain while leaving the monitor sends at exactly the same level can be very handy. Mostly I try to keep gains quite low to avoid these risks, I wouldn't mind a automatic levelling / compensation when adjusting gain, if signal to the PA is to strong I can reduce it anyway with the fader.
Nice feature!
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If the source is that much hotter at the input, it will be that much hotter in all the destination mixes too.
 
Re: Behringer X32 Firmware v3.0 Feature Requests

Tim McCulloch said:
If the source is that much hotter at the input, it will be that much hotter in all the destination mixes too.
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As I understand the digital world, s/n is only an issue in the analog world at the A-to-D converter. If the noise doesn't exist, or isn't relative, at the A/D converter, it isn't in the binary sentence (so all 24 bits are still relevant). So while the "audio" is floating around in digital form you cannot introduce noise by having a low signal, as you would in the analog world. This is one of the main advantages to "digital audio, video, etc" vs analog. So the gentleman using the matrix mix to reduce gain shouldn't see any s/n problems. I do wonder about running your power amps wide open. Typically the power amps are the final stage in the gain structure and is where you set the volume level for the audience (mains) or stage (monitors). A "pop" from a broken cable or a cable being pulled out of a guitar could blow out a driver. Anyway, to each his own...
 
Re: Behringer X32 Firmware v3.0 Feature Requests

Tane Glaus said:
As I understand the digital world, s/n is only an issue in the analog world at the A-to-D converter. If the noise doesn't exist, or isn't relative, at the A/D converter, it isn't in the binary sentence (so all 24 bits are still relevant). So while the "audio" is floating around in digital form you cannot introduce noise by having a low signal, as you would in the analog world. This is one of the main advantages to "digital audio, video, etc" vs analog. So the gentleman using the matrix mix to reduce gain shouldn't see any s/n problems. I do wonder about running your power amps wide open. Typically the power amps are the final stage in the gain structure and is where you set the volume level for the audience (mains) or stage (monitors). A "pop" from a broken cable or a cable being pulled out of a guitar could blow out a driver. Anyway, to each his own...
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Are you aware that the input trims on a power amp do not prevent the amp from delivering full power to the speakers? It just means that it takes more signal driven into them to achieve the full power. So the way my gain stages are configured I am no more likely to have a problem of blowing drivers like you described then you are if you don’t’ run the amps full open. And it is possible that with the outputs of the mixer trimmed I might be less likely to have an issue.

With the amps run wide open the setup is very repeatable and you never have a problem of wondering if someone touched the input levels on the amps, when you look at them if they aren’t up all the way they have been touched. If someone messes with the inputs on the amps they can never make it louder they can only make it softer.
 
Re: Behringer X32 Firmware v3.0 Feature Requests

The scenario given by the original poster was top of show input clipping after the various sends were set at sound check. Presuming these send ratios are still correct the only problem to fix is turning down the input trim. There is no need to change the send levels because those mixes have not changed.

Using matrices to set levels for zones and video feeds is the accepted way of doing such things.
 
Re: Behringer X32 Firmware v3.0 Feature Requests

Jay Ashworth said:
The only practical way then I can see this particular feature working is if you defined a shift key which, if it was held down while you were adjusting the gain on a channel input, compensated the relevant pass levels on that channel, the effects ends, the channel fader, etc. That way, you could do this to avoid input preamp peaks, but make normal adjustments if that was what you needed.
Click to expand...

This sounds like a nice idea. Maybe this "function key" could be the 'view' button for the preamp section?
 
Re: Behringer X32 Firmware v3.0 Feature Requests

I don't see why not. Since the View buttons in each section are intermittent press for their primary function, press and hold is available in the cognitive space of the user for those additional controls. A time-honored tradition. And a very nice catch, I hadn't thought of it.
 
Re: Behringer X32 Firmware v3.0 Feature Requests

Jay Ashworth said:
I don't see why not. Since the View buttons in each section are intermittent press for their primary function, press and hold is available in the cognitive space of the user for those additional controls. A time-honored tradition. And a very nice catch, I hadn't thought of it.
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Drew and Jay - yes! That would do nicely!! Computationally this is such a trivial thing to do - it's just a case of making it work well in the user interface and your suggestion is great!

Ron: Yes - you're right - why disable particular pre-fade sends. In fact now I think about it the post-fades should be included too, so just control all bus sends in the same way.

Tane: HA gains shouldn't be used for controlling volume - that's what the faders are for! It's a nightmare for a musician when you have someone on the desk who keeps tweaking the gains after sound-check as they throw out all the foldback levels.

HOWEVER just think of the joy of being able to tweak a gain control and watch the fader move until it's at unity gain, with no discernible change in volume for the audience or the musicians. It would be really easy to get all the channels at unity gain - a nice stright row - and then use that as your base position to mix from :-)
 
Re: Behringer X32 Firmware v3.0 Feature Requests

Ian Rogerson said:
Tane: HA gains shouldn't be used for controlling volume - that's what the faders are for! It's a nightmare for a musician when you have someone on the desk who keeps tweaking the gains after sound-check as they throw out all the foldback levels.
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That's why I sometimes leave the gain the same allthough it's far to high for me / to my opinion. The balancing / proposed solution would be a very nice feature.
However pressing the view button would be difficult for the android/ipad app i think...
 
Re: Behringer X32 Firmware v3.0 Feature Requests

Hello All

I don't know if it was already in the list but phase inverter on all output should be great ..

Best
Jean-Mi
 
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