New Midas M32 Console

Re: New Midas M32 Console

Per Søvik said:
Why is that, Helge? :twisted:
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Because I called the Norwegian distributor and asked about this earlier this week. They denied it :)

I'm considering purchasing a Pro1 for pure sonic reasons. IMHO Midas Pro series and Digico SD-series are sonically superior to all other digital desks I've tried. So it was 50/50 between a Pro 1 or a SD9. Pro1 wins because it has more local inputs.
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Helge Dr. Bentsen said:
Because I called the Norwegian distributor and asked about this earlier this week. They denied it :)

I'm considering purchasing a Pro1 for pure sonic reasons. IMHO Midas Pro series and Digico SD-series are sonically superior to all other digital desks I've tried. So it was 50/50 between a Pro 1 or a SD9. Pro1 wins because it has more local inputs.
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OK, you're buying a Pro1 and you like the fact that the pricedrop of 30% doesn't apply to Norway.
Yeah, I get it :lol:

I guess AVAB are not among those who aggressively advertize their prices, and consequently aren't in a hurry to announce a price drop.

I'm just wondering, with the price drop, could the M32 be a teaser that get new customers interested, and then start thinking "...but for only $2000 (or $3000?) more I can have the Pro1" ????
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Helge Dr. Bentsen said:
Because I called the Norwegian distributor and asked about this earlier this week. They denied it :)

I'm considering purchasing a Pro1 for pure sonic reasons. IMHO Midas Pro series and Digico SD-series are sonically superior to all other digital desks I've tried. So it was 50/50 between a Pro 1 or a SD9. Pro1 wins because it has more local inputs.
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I went through MIDAS training on Pro line (CMDU), had a chance to mess with them all. Pro 1 seems to have a huge upgrade potential, it has exactly the same main computer as 2/2c (PC motherboard running Linux), seems like current 40-channel count is no more than software limitation, CPU has the same power. I think MIDAS limited Pro 1 to 40 channels intentionally, only not to cut into Pro 2/2c territory, it should be able to handle the same channel count as 2/2c. (with stageboxes over AES50, of course)
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Per Søvik said:
OK, you're buying a Pro1 and you like the fact that the pricedrop of 30% doesn't apply to Norway.
Yeah, I get it :lol:

I guess AVAB are not among those who aggressively advertize their prices, and consequently aren't in a hurry to announce a price drop.

I'm just wondering, with the price drop, could the M32 be a teaser that get new customers interested, and then start thinking "...but for only $2000 (or $3000?) more I can have the Pro1" ????
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No, I liked that post because it said:

"Thomann didn't know anything about the price drop and neither did the scandinavian distibutor either..."


As far as I can work out, there isn't a price drop on the Pro1 console, it's just a rumor. And I will continue to treat is as a rumor until someone comes up with numbers supporting the claimed price drop :)
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Questions for all the tech heads: assuming that M32 is indeed a 96K desk all the way from stagebox to console,

The AES50 can carry 48 channels in each direction at 48K, but only 24 at 96K (all MIDAS 96K 3-digit DL stageboxes require one AES50 per each 24 channels, as does Klark Teknik DN9696 hard disk recorder, it takes four (!) AES50 lines to utilize all of its 96 tracks at 96K).

Question 1: How it is possible to get 32 downstream channels from two DL16 stageboxes (presumably running at 96K) to M32 over a single cable (between AES50 A port on M32 and A port on DL16, with B port on first DL16 connected to A port on second DL16)?

Question 2: If we would have to use BOTH AES50 A and B ports on the M32 and the first DL16, running two CAT5 cables in parallel (not a big deal really), then how we are supposed to connect a second DL16 stagebox?

Any ideas on this?
 
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Re: New Midas M32 Console

Arik Semagin said:
Questions for all the tech heads: assuming that M32 is indeed a 96K desk all the way from stagebox to console,

The AES50 can carry 48 channels in each direction at 48K, but only 24 at 96K (all MIDAS 3-digit DL stageboxes require one AES50 per each 24 channels, as does Klark Teknik DN9696 hard disk recorder, it takes four (!) AES50 lines to utilize all of its 96 tracks at 96K)

Question 1: How it is possible to get 32 downstream channels from two DL16 stageboxes (presumably running at 96K) to M32?

Question 2: If we would have to use BOTH AES50 A and B ports on the M32 and the first DL16, running two CAT5 cables in parallel (not a big deal really), then how we are supposed to connect a second DL16 stagebox?

Any ideas on this?
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Quite simple, it is not a 96k desk from stage box in to stage box out. They say it is 96k ready, whatever that means.

In other words: it's not possible.

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Re: New Midas M32 Console

John Roberts said:
PS: Once again to try to drag this back on topic, the X32 has a potential as a crossover product to attract more professional users if it proves itself reliable, so a Midas version could help overcome entrenched opposition to the lower end badge, and natural aversion to overly popular SKUs. It just doesn't look cool for a pro to be yet another incremental user, while real pro's don't worry that much about appearances.
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Once again your experience as a product line manager comes to the front. Well said, John.

You hit the "difference nail" squarely. I bought an X32 mostly because I needed a tax deduction for my 2013 Schedule C. As much as I dislike the history of the brand (and swearing I'd never own anything they made) and as much as I wanted the product to suck so I could justify selling it off in 2014... it doesn't suck. It has some important limitations that make for fairly easy class distinctions, but if one understands those limitations and can work within them, there's nothing really wrong with using an X32. How long they last, and if there are any lurking time bombs inside, all remain to be seen.

That said, the firm I manage is in the business of filling riders and we'd not purchase an X32, but an M32 would be a possibility simply because of the badge. I think of that as the $2000 hand-holding, but if the desk is requested often enough we'll gladly pay. It's a commercial decision.

For Arik, I think you need to consider that the Varsity forum is mostly for and about those who are full time production firms and technicians. We don't buy stuff based on internal processing specifications unless those numbers are important to the folks that sign the cheques (and the 48kHz Avid Venue products are our most requested). Mixers, speakers, amps, racks & cases, stands, mics, miles of cables... all are components of a tool used to make a profit (hopefully), not a big-ass personal stereo system, so what I or my crew or boss personally think of a particular item is mostly irrelevant. Every purchase decision goes through several filters, but the primary is: how will this new widget/system/accessory save us money in operations and/or how will it allow us to increase our gross revenue? It's meant to be a pretty cold and deliberate process...
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Arik Semagin said:
Then it will be interesting how they will handle 96K once it will be 96K desk. Run two AES50 cables between each component?
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Maybe it's 2 cables, maybe it's less channels. Why is this 96k thing so important for you? At the moment it is pure marketing. And when (or if) they implement it, it still will make little impact on the mixer operation, aside from the limitations you already pointed out.

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Re: New Midas M32 Console

Arik Semagin said:
Questions for all the tech heads: assuming that M32 is indeed a 96K desk all the way from stagebox to console,

The AES50 can carry 48 channels in each direction at 48K, but only 24 at 96K (all MIDAS 96K 3-digit DL stageboxes require one AES50 per each 24 channels, as does Klark Teknik DN9696 hard disk recorder, it takes four (!) AES50 lines to utilize all of its 96 tracks at 96K).

Question 1: How it is possible to get 32 downstream channels from two DL16 stageboxes (presumably running at 96K) to M32 over a single cable (between AES50 A port on M32 and A port on DL16, with B port on first DL16 connected to A port on second DL16)?

Question 2: If we would have to use BOTH AES50 A and B ports on the M32 and the first DL16, running two CAT5 cables in parallel (not a big deal really), then how we are supposed to connect a second DL16 stagebox?

Any ideas on this?
Click to expand...

Assuming future 96KHz implementation, including the necessary upgrade to the S16 to make the M16 96KHz capable (the M1696?) with a full channel set, you need to run one cable from each M16. That is of course not a problem until you want to use more than one console, in which case you'll need a network bridge, or you just forego the M16s and use the inputs on the monitor mixer off stage, and have both AES50 ports available for communicating with the FOH mixer.

There is of course another way as well, it involves connecting M16 A to mixer A, M16 B to mixer B, and having a single cable between the mixers to transfer M16A channels from mixer A to mixer B and M16B channels from mixer B to mixer A
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Per Søvik said:
Assuming future 96KHz implementation, including the necessary upgrade to the S16 to make the M16 96KHz capable (the M1696?) with a full channel set, you need to run one cable from each M16. That is of course not a problem until you want to use more than one console, in which case you'll need a network bridge, or you just forego the M16s and use the inputs on the monitor mixer off stage, and have both AES50 ports available for communicating with the FOH mixer.

There is of course another way as well, it involves connecting M16 A to mixer A, M16 B to mixer B, and having a single cable between the mixers to transfer M16A channels from mixer A to mixer B and M16B channels from mixer B to mixer A
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That would be interesting to see, since Behringer didn't reserved a space for future expansion card that could've add more AES50 ports, like Presonus did with new SL mixers release (AI). I don't mind running two AES50 CAT5 cables (Digi Profile also requires a separate snake for each stage rack). But instead of making a new DL1696 box, I'd rather see DL2496, hoping for the future channel count upgrade, then we can fully utilize each AES50 cable capacity.

May be Behringer can find some workaround by using Ultranet for signal transfers between two DL16, like they did for Turbosound speakers, or even USB ports, since distance is not an issue, they are usually on top of each other. I mean running two AES50 between M32 and first DL16, and use USB between first and second DL16s.
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Arik Semagin said:
That would be interesting to see, since Behringer didn't reserved a space for future expansion card that could've add more AES50 ports, like Presonus did with new SL mixers release (AI).
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Huh? Just like the new studiolive the x32 has one expansion slot. This means in theory that behringer could manufacture an aes50-card.
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Agree. I was mostly thinking about M32 upgrade to 48 channels, seems to be more logical for marketing reasons, for pro sound guys doing it full time. Being an electronic engineer, I look at technical side first. Seems like 48 channel is certainly doable, in both X32 and M32, but M32 is obviously more logical choice for channel count increase. But once again, it will put it against small Pro desks (1/2/2c), I'm not sure if Uli would want to do it. But who knows, if he would make more $$$ selling more M32 for less price than less number of Pro 1/2/2c for more $$$ per unit, then why not?

I just did a gig last night, used 9 inputs from the first S16 (community event, mostly acoustic), that's all. Who cares, it got me half of what I've paid for X32! (X32 was a big "WOW", almost everyone stopped by FOH to ask what it is)
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Brent Handy said:
I cannot get over how much people want for so little money.
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It is actually the not so few of us wanting more that has helped push the firmware along, to the point where the M32 is the most extensively Beta-tested and developed mixer ever presented by a Pro mixer manufacturer. There are of course requests that doesn't make sense for various reasons, but that is only to be expected for an MI product. If every user followed your "advice" and just "shut up and be happy" as it were, Behringer and Midas would not benefit from the feedback they are getting. Granted, there is a lot of "noise" to filter out, but we are helping to develop a better product.
 
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