New Midas M32 Console

re: New Midas M32 Console

Kevin Hayes said:
I haven't used the X32 in the field, but I've heard great things about the sound and workflow so I don't look at this as a bad thing if it sounds great.

The quality of the onboard EQ and compression are more important to me than sample rate. Can anyone clear up whether or not you can adjust the head-amp gain independent of the digital trim? One of the selling points of the Pro series was that you could heat up your analog pre-amps and then dial back the digital gain.
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Yes, there is a split mode that separates the headamp analog gain from the channel digital gain. You set the preamp analog gain in a separate preamp page, and the channel gain is purely digital (when in split mode)

However, while traditionally you couldn't push a Midas input into digital clipping (as opposed to Yamaha that will gladly run into clipping without saturating the preamp at all), I'm not yet having any opinion (or informed guess) about whether you can overdrive these preamps and still have digital headroom in the converter.
 
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re: New Midas M32 Console

Per Søvik said:
Yes, there is a split mode that separates the headamp analog gain from the channel digital gain. You set the preamp analog gain in a separate preamp page, and the channel gain is purely digital (when in split mode)

However, while traditionally you couldn't push a Midas input into digital clipping (as opposed to Yamaha that will gladly run into clipping without saturating the preamp at all), I'm not yet having any opinion (or informed guess) about whether you can overdrive these preamps and still have digital headroom in the converter.
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I read a tech article that said the a/d clips before the preamp. Since saturation is a form of soft clipping I can only assume that this is not an option on the x32.

Doing my own test I could not get any saturation before the a/d was clipping. My conclution is that this is a midas preamp without the pro character.
 
re: New Midas M32 Console

Kevin Maxwell said:
I have not used a Midas Pro desk for any shows yet, I have been using the Avid Profile and the SC48 lately. But I have found that for the musical theater shows that I have done the VCA spill only helps up to a point. With that capability I can get away with the 26 faders of the SC48 but 24 is the absolute minimum fader count for me. Now if I was doing a concert that is a completely different workflow, and I can get away with less faders.

Musical theater is a completely different beast. I would like to have at least 24 dedicated input channel faders and at least 8 master faders. And that still is going to leave a lot of stuff on the other layers.

I couldn’t come up with a usable way to make the X32 work due to my workflow. If I can do pop groups or VCA spill like function on the M32 or the X32 version 2.0 with the enhanced cue/scene functionality that looks interesting to me and I will have to take another look at the M32/X32 to see if I can make it work for me.
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POP groups on X32 are not implemented yet, they are on my wish list (hopefully Behringer folks are reading this). As for less channel faders, I'm surprised they haven't made available using of another X32/X32 Compact as simple surface extension to the main X32 (not as monitor desk). Would be nice to have X32 Compact next to it with all its 16 faders as one layer. May be new Xcontrol surfaces will do it. I really want to see a new "X32 Control" desk, with minimum onboard inputs but more channel faders (24, hoping for future channel count upgrade), aimed to work primarily with stageboxes.
 
re: New Midas M32 Console

Robert Lofgren said:
I read a tech article that said the a/d clips before the preamp. Since saturation is a form of soft clipping I can only assume that this is not an option on the x32.

Doing my own test I could not get any saturation before the a/d was clipping. My conclution is that this is a midas preamp without the pro character.
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Oh yes, the X32 has not got the Midas behaviour, and from a couple of comments made by Behringer folk (can't remember who) it was more or less a concious decision. I can respect that decision if it was made from a cost point of view, true Midas behaviour requiring more components. If the decision was made for any other reason, then.......:?~:-?~:???:
The lack of saturation/compression at the top doesn't bother me, I run lots of headroom and use other methods for getting the "sound".

EDIT: However, just to be clear, my previous comment was about the M32 preamps, not the X32 preamps.
 
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re: New Midas M32 Console

Robert Lofgren said:
I read a tech article that said the a/d clips before the preamp. Since saturation is a form of soft clipping I can only assume that this is not an option on the x32. Doing my own test I could not get any saturation before the a/d was clipping.
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That's sad - while I don't personally have a problem with keeping out of clipping I do like having the option to "push" preamps (both my Phonic Summit and Mackie DL1608 seem to allow that). The Yamaha boards have a rep amongst the unwashed for having "harsh" preamps - no prob if you know what you are doing though. I suppose you can argue either way...
 
re: New Midas M32 Console

Arik Semagin said:
Just curious which Yamaha desks are you dumping?

Also. when you'll guys will get your M32, do you have any Pro series stage boxes to test it with (151/251 at least). It would be nice to see if it will work, and if yes, what sample rates it will let you select with these boxes. Will 96K be available?
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We are selling our last remaining M7CL-48 and LS9-32.

Our rep knows we want a demo of the M32 and when he has one to demo I'm sure we will meet up. Who knows when that will be though.

I have two DL251 and I will certainly test it with them and let you know once we do.

Jason
 
re: New Midas M32 Console

Kevin Maxwell said:
I have not used a Midas Pro desk for any shows yet, I have been using the Avid Profile and the SC48 lately. But I have found that for the musical theater shows that I have done the VCA spill only helps up to a point. With that capability I can get away with the 26 faders of the SC48 but 24 is the absolute minimum fader count for me. Now if I was doing a concert that is a completely different workflow, and I can get away with less faders.

Musical theater is a completely different beast. I would like to have at least 24 dedicated input channel faders and at least 8 master faders. And that still is going to leave a lot of stuff on the other layers.

I couldn’t come up with a usable way to make the X32 work due to my workflow. If I can do pop groups or VCA spill like function on the M32 or the X32 version 2.0 with the enhanced cue/scene functionality that looks interesting to me and I will have to take another look at the M32/X32 to see if I can make it work for me.
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Kevin -

I would not like to do music theater with an SC48.

On the other hand, I have mixed many 40+ channel shows, including symphony and other classical events, as well as monitors at a festival and at a band showcase (20 minute soundchecks in the morning, 15 minute show with 5 minute changeovers for 8+ bands) utilizing PRO 2c now. I love it.

If providing for a BE with limited experience on the desk, a PRO 2 is in order for their comfort. If I'm mixing though, for symphonies, festivals and showcases, I prefer the PRO 2C.

I haven't had to do music theater with it yet though. The POP groups are very helpful, especially since you can use Area B (the three faders on the right) for a second set of fader options. I put POP group 5 on these faders as my FX and POP group 6 as TB/CD/MC. So you never have to look for anything.

If it were me doing theater with it, I would really only use POP group 1 as "THINGS I NEED THIS SCENE" and use the scene recall to bring the appropriate items to the top layer. Just a thought.

Jason
 
re: New Midas M32 Console

Jason Misterka said:
Kevin -

I would not like to do music theater with an SC48.

On the other hand, I have mixed many 40+ channel shows, including symphony and other classical events, as well as monitors at a festival and at a band showcase (20 minute soundchecks in the morning, 15 minute show with 5 minute changeovers for 8+ bands) utilizing PRO 2c now. I love it.

If providing for a BE with limited experience on the desk, a PRO 2 is in order for their comfort. If I'm mixing though, for symphonies, festivals and showcases, I prefer the PRO 2C.

I haven't had to do music theater with it yet though. The POP groups are very helpful, especially since you can use Area B (the three faders on the right) for a second set of fader options. I put POP group 5 on these faders as my FX and POP group 6 as TB/CD/MC. So you never have to look for anything.

If it were me doing theater with it, I would really only use POP group 1 as "THINGS I NEED THIS SCENE" and use the scene recall to bring the appropriate items to the top layer. Just a thought.

Jason
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I used the VCA spill feature of the Avid consoles on the SC48. Anytime I had any of the wireless mics (or anything else I needed on the top layer) that wasn’t on the top layer I would assign all of those to VCA1, that I had labeled as Spill. And then I would assign all of those channels that were up in that scene to VCA1 and every time I saw that VCA1 was up in a scene I knew to double tap it so the board would populate the faders with only the used channels. And if there were a bunch of scenes in a row where a few mics would need to come up and down I would even assign those so (for that sequence) the channels didn’t move around, I just had them up and down as needed. It sounds more complicated then it is but it worked for me. And if you know your way around the board it is pretty fast to program it that way. I do all of the fader moves first and then as I run the scenes I can assign them to the VCA1 by what fader is up.
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

John Murray said:
Does anybody know if there are plans for a M32 compact?
I tour with an X32 compact right now, and would wait for the M version if there will be one.
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John, do you have a full X32 too? What's your opinion about Compact? Is the lack of some surface knobs and buttons are big deal?

I have full X32, use it exclusively with 2 S16s. Thinking about buying Compact (as secondary, for small gigs and may be as monitor desk). I played with it at Guitar Center, still not sure. I'll be getting Pro 1 or Pro 2c soon, so 8 channel faders is not my concern. just want to hear your overall opinion about real use on live gigs?
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Jason Misterka said:
We are selling our last remaining M7CL-48 and LS9-32.

Our rep knows we want a demo of the M32 and when he has one to demo I'm sure we will meet up. Who knows when that will be though.

I have two DL251 and I will certainly test it with them and let you know once we do.

Jason
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You mean you are replacing them with X32s or you have bigger desks (the PRO, I assume, since you have DL-251s)?

Cool! We'll be all looking for these test results. Can you also test if M32 will work with X32 as FOH/monitor desk? Also, did your rep gave you any idea when M32 will be available?
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Arik Semagin said:
You mean you are replacing them with X32s or you have bigger desks (the PRO, I assume, since you have DL-251s)?

Cool! We'll be all looking for these test results. Can you also test if M32 will work with X32 as FOH/monitor desk? Also, did your rep gave you any idea when M32 will be available?
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I have not nor do I intend on purchasing an X32, so all my testing will be with Midas PRO and M32 once it is available... Not sure yet when that will be.

Jason
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

A quick look on the Starin site actually has the M32 price as just over $5,500. However I also noticed that some of the information has not yet been updated to account for new/changed product details in line with many of the recent announcements from NAMM, so there is both some wrong as well as outdated info on there. I guess such a big site with so many products listed may take a bit of time to get up to date.

To the best of my recollection the prices of current Midas products didn't reflect recent reports of reductions, and in their EV section the new powered speaker line wasn't listed at all, though they had some old Turbo Milan speakers listed as well as all the new ones - highlighting the significant price reductions for the new boxes.

Sent from my GT-I8160 2
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Arik Semagin said:
Thanks for a note, Bennet, I am new indeed. Appreciate your input, this is a great forum, and yes, sometimes it sparks the flame where you don't expect. Try to control myself too.
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One tries, but one doesn't always succeed, and sometimes getting a point across achieves anything but.

Thanks to everybody for technical info, even to those with big egos!
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And then you write something like that :p

Any news on when M32 will hit the stores?
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I have the impression that it is not immediately, but they might surprise us.

First, I've noted it there, it's not about John's, rather the whole philosophical thread not related to M32/X32.
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It is related in the sense that the M32's market reception will be very much dependent on how the Behringer phobia works out. There is the incentive to own equipment that doesn't have the Behringer logo among those that are happy using the X32 but realize that potential customers will respond better to Midas logos. On the other hand, Behringer phobia might work against the M32 capturing a lot of the buyers in the segment above the typical X32 customer. My point with the clown analogy, that probably didn't get across, was that one shouldn't let one's own feelings and sentiments get in the way of decisions based on objective facts, while it is perfectly acceptable and prudent to let the sentiments of the potential customers be a big factor in one's decision making.
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Arik Semagin said:
John, do you have a full X32 too? What's your opinion about Compact? Is the lack of some surface knobs and buttons are big deal?

I have full X32, use it exclusively with 2 S16s. Thinking about buying Compact (as secondary, for small gigs and may be as monitor desk). I played with it at Guitar Center, still not sure. I'll be getting Pro 1 or Pro 2c soon, so 8 channel faders is not my concern. just want to hear your overall opinion about real use on live gigs?
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Hi Arik, i use the X32 Compact for touring with the same band, doing 500-1500 seater theatres in Mainland Europe, and since switching i've had no problems at all.
I run The Console with 2x S16s over cat5e. I've done 100+shows so far and i'm really happy.

The only thing i missed was i used one rotary definable know for adjusting sends to a modulation effect, but i can easily do it via sends on fader.
I run about 28 channels, so the way i dealt with the 8 faders was to patch it like i was using pop groups, so Drums on layer 1, backline layer 2, keys & electronics layer 3, and vocals on layer 4. To be honest, this worked better for me than splitting this particular show over 2x 16 channels on the full-size.

Apart from that, flight cased, the compact is half the weight & almost half the size of my full-sized version.
Hope this helps!
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

wow, just heard from my dealer that midas reduced pricing on all their consoles by more then 30%!!!
also some of the x32's have come down in price by 30%. pretty crazy as it is already the best selling desk...

guess there is a major mixer war going on...

J
 
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