New Midas M32 Console

Re: New Midas M32 Console

Per Søvik said:
It is actually the not so few of us wanting more that has helped push the firmware along, to the point where the M32 is the most extensively Beta-tested and developed mixer ever presented by a Pro mixer manufacturer. There are of course requests that doesn't make sense for various reasons, but that is only to be expected for an MI product. If every user followed your "advice" and just "shut up and be happy" as it were, Behringer and Midas would not benefit from the feedback they are getting. Granted, there is a lot of "noise" to filter out, but we are helping to develop a better product.
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Great point, Per! X32 got the largest army of free testers here, on this forum, and seems like they are reading our replies. At least we are getting the features that we want, though not all what we want....
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Arik Semagin said:
Good post, Joe! Facts, facts, facts! I don't know why people like to bitch about Behringer quality so much, especially bitching in general or about products they never owned or used personally. With B you are getting your money's worth, most of the time more than you pay for, and most B-branded gear works fine. I never had to resolder cold joints in Behringer analog mixers and did it many times in Mackies. Is Behringer-fobia is indeed an infectious disease?
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And this is exactly the revisionism that frustrates those of us that have been in the business for a while. It does not take very much searching in forum posts to get a sense of the reputation Behringer is working hard to overcome. This reputation did not come about because of great-value products that always worked.

Once again, I'm thrilled that Behringer's X32 and other products are successful, as it creates pressure to innovate on other vendors that I'm more likely to do business with. :)
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

So we have some Behringer/Midas people on here. Can we please get some answers to some of the many questions regarding the original topic the M32? Thank you!

If need be I will spell out my questions. But I think others have already asked them.
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Kevin Maxwell said:
So we have some Behringer/Midas people on here. Can we please get some answers to some of the many questions regarding the original topic the M32? Thank you!

If need be I will spell out my questions. But I think others have already asked them.
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Great idea!

I would like to know 3 things:

How are the faders and preamps different from the X32?
Can the preamps be overdriven before AD clip like Midas Pro preamps?
Will there be enough units for a hands-on at PLS or is it too early for that?

Maybe someone from Behriger/MG/Midas can enlighten us a bit.
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Arik Semagin said:
It's still not clear if preamps in M32/DL16 are different from X32/S16, as well as sample rate (48K in both, 96K at MIDAS site is clearly listed as future upgrade). Until somebody will get his hands on M32/DL16 and will look inside or do actual testing side-by-side. I would guess not until April.

Also, what do you mean by "Full AES50 support"? From what I know, AES50 is 48 channels of audio in each direction at 48K (24 at 96K), correct me if I'm wrong. If so, M32 still doesn't have access to all 48 channels coming from stage inputs via AES50, so it isn't full support. Until they will implement the long-awaited third "33-48" channel layer button (or upgrade firmware with some trick, like pressing "1-16" and "17-32" layers buttons together, thus accessing the desired "33-48" layer, no hardware changes will be needed).

What would be really interesting is to test both X32 and M32 with truly MIDAS stageboxes from Pro line, I mean DL151/251, these are definitely MIDAS preamps on par with XL4 preamps. They should work at 48K. Will there be any significant difference in sound quality of these versus DL16/S16? Should be difference when used with MIDAS Pro desks at 96K, but we are talking 48K here, at least for now.

Is anybody here who actually tried this, X32 with DL151 or 251? I don't have the 251 and don't feel like spending $5K for it if it will sounds the same as my S16s.
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I have recently taken delivery of a DL251 to use with my X32. And, after a short preliminary test with a microphone switching between a local X32 input and DL251 input. The DL251 sounds significantly better to my ears. FWIW, you should be able to get a DL251 for much less than 5K. If you don't have a pressing need like I did, wait for the DL153 to become compatible or for the DL16 to be released.
 
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Re: New Midas M32 Console

Arik Semagin said:
Agree. I was mostly thinking about M32 upgrade to 48 channels, seems to be more logical for marketing reasons, for pro sound guys doing it full time. Being an electronic engineer, I look at technical side first. Seems like 48 channel is certainly doable, in both X32 and M32, but M32 is obviously more logical choice for channel count increase. But once again, it will put it against small Pro desks (1/2/2c), I'm not sure if Uli would want to do it. But who knows, if he would make more $$$ selling more M32 for less price than less number of Pro 1/2/2c for more $$$ per unit, then why not?

I just did a gig last night, used 9 inputs from the first S16 (community event, mostly acoustic), that's all. Who cares, it got me half of what I've paid for X32! (X32 was a big "WOW", almost everyone stopped by FOH to ask what it is)
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Well, just so you know, that isn't going to be something fixable through an extra card. It would require increased processing ability on the hardware itself embedded in the console. Not gonna change that way.
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Christian Tepfer said:
Great idea!

I would like to know 3 things:

How are the faders and preamps different from the X32?
Can the preamps be overdriven before AD clip like Midas Pro preamps?
Will there be enough units for a hands-on at PLS or is it too early for that?

Maybe someone from Behriger/MG/Midas can enlighten us a bit.
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I'm none of the requested persona but I can answer most of the question.
The faders are displayed in both the Midas and the Behringer sites and they are clearly different. The Midas unit looks far more robust. The preamps are different per Mfg. ad and John has given his impression based on the 251 above. The preamp/A/D chain I'm sure will be maximized for great performance. The PLS show on 3/12/14 will answer the last.
Let me take the comparison a step further. It's quite clear that the control surface PCB's are different just from the visual. The output section may be the same physical layout but the boards can't be the same based on new preamps. That leaves the processing section which I have found no info on. Using the X32 as a baseline and comments from the developers leads me to this speculation. The X32 DSP's are 3rd gen parts and 4th gen are available as is the option to add more DSP's in the design (per developers). The main CPU is the bottom of the barrel in the FreeScale iMX series that goes up to 1 Gig+ with many additional feature. No dead end there. Memory can always be expanded to the addressing limits. That leaves the software. This appears to be similar to the X32 and certainly does not require a re-write but certainly needs mods if for no other reason than the Logo and possible use of new hardware features. Conditional compile at best, common code base. Communications wise AES50 may be initially used but there is the HyperMac a technology that's been around for at least 10 yrs. (1 Gig Ethernet), again expanding performance. The M32 is a transitional product for the MG well placed for the Behringer crowd that want to go higher or satisfy riders.
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

William Kueppers said:
..... Communications wise AES50 may be initially used but there is the HyperMac a technology that's been around for at least 10 yrs. (1 Gig Ethernet), again expanding performance. The M32 is a transitional product for the MG well placed for the Behringer crowd that want to go higher or satisfy riders.
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William, just to clarify, is AES50 is a subset of HyperMac (Gigabit Ethernet cabling)? Someone noted before that AES50 is only 100MBps. What are the relationships between these? Is HyperMac and AES50 the same or different things?

Also, will there be any advantages of using CAT6 vs. CAT5e with X32/M32 (performance, stability)? Or shielded vs. unshielded 5e will make more difference?
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

There is hypermac and supermac, supermac is 100mbps and hypermac is 1000mbps. As implemented on the X32 the 100mbps supermac is used. Hypermac allows more channels than supermac.

Sent from my Nokia Lumia 625
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Arik Semagin said:
William, just to clarify, is AES50 is a subset of HyperMac (Gigabit Ethernet cabling)? Someone noted before that AES50 is only 100MBps. What are the relationships between these? Is HyperMac and AES50 the same or different things?
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Aes50 is the data protocol and has nothing to do with transfer speed.

Hypermac and supermac are specific speed implementations (and possibly some properitary control info as well for KT-devices) of the aes50 protocol. Both utilizes gigabit ethernet cabling, i.e. it uses all of the four pairs for data and sync.
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Arik Semagin said:
Also, will there be any advantages of using CAT6 vs. CAT5e with X32/M32 (performance, stability)? Or shielded vs. unshielded 5e will make more difference?
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Since shielded cable is stipulated in the aes50 specification I'd say that unshielded is to be avoided. I expect no difference from the x32 so ethercons is also a must.
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

For clarification:

AES50 is based on Gigabit Ethernet Layer 1.

If you know your OSI 7 layer model, you'll know that Layer 1 is called the physical layer. This refers to the physical characteristics of the connection. It includes cabling type, but also the electrical characteristics (voltages, etc...).

But, thats as far as it goes. It has nothing to do with TCP/IP thats layer 3&4.

See here: Audio over Ethernet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Robert Lofgren said:
Since shielded cable is stipulated in the aes50 specification I'd say that unshielded is to be avoided. I expect no difference from the x32 so ethercons is also a must.
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I recommend Cat6. Using Midas spools we had static electricity issues in a room that was re-carpeted, Cat6 cleared it up.
 
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