Yes I can feel your Pain!We (day job) bought two XL8, a KT9696, a Pro2C, and five Pro2 this year. That this drop didn't happen before we spent all that dough is most perturbing. Plus, the less they cost, the less folks are willing to pay to rent them. Doubly screwed.
Vdosc had been around for way more than 10 years and was EOL for any actual business anyway. It still has resale value and had already made the businesses that owned it tons of ROI. Same with Q series, but Q isn't quite as old.
If all else remains the same, the ONLY advantage to a higher clock speed (above the 44.1khz minimum) is lower possible latency, but only if you have an application where higher latency is an issue.
Some D/A converters blow and have bad reconstruction, and some DSP filters are badly behaved around Nyquist, so higher clock rates alleviate this issue. I am not in the least way suggesting the Behringer or Midas products have this problem, but IMHO it is a large part of why there is such a preference for high sample rates. Bad experiences in the past.
Which current crop of D/A converters in which products have this problem?
I have no idea if any modern products have poor reconstruction.
I have NEVER used a behringer mixing product that didn't sound like a low rate MP3, and those were analog mixers.
That being said if it's what is in front of me, I use it and do my best and if I think it sounds good at that moment then I won't complain. The look and feel is another thing. I saw one of these X32s (the only one I've ever seen anywhere) last June and it looked like a toy. If that sounds shocking to someone, what I see a lot of are Yamaha, Avid, Soundcraft and Digico. I'm liking the SD9.
Hire rates are most often based on some percentage of the cost of purchasing the item. Dirks competitors can now buy the same desks he owns and hire them out at a cheaper rate, while still making the same %ROI as Dirk. I fully understand his frustration.This is pretty ridiculous. As manufacturing, technology, and competition continue to improve we will most likely be seeing MORE price drops from all manufacturers. Don't buy a console based on potential resale value. Buy the console that will satisfy your requirements and earn you money--it will most likely be worth pennies on the dollar by EOL!
Jeff
Do you make a living renting those items out? When new competitors can buy the same rental stock for a lot less money, it punishes those that were loyal and bought the stuff in the beginning. Truth is, Uli doesn't care about those people - he just wants to sell more units. Which is exactly why Behringer is a MI brand and not a pro brand, they seem to not understand how the pro end of the business operates.Have you ever bought a flat screen TV, monitor or mobile phone? Hurts doesn't it?
Do you make a living renting those items out? When new competitors can buy the same rental stock for a lot less money, it punishes those that were loyal and bought the stuff in the beginning. Truth is, Uli doesn't care about those people - he just wants to sell more units. Which is exactly why Behringer is a MI brand and not a pro brand, they seem to not understand how the pro end of the business operates.
No I totally get it, the pro end of the business is a bunch of moaners that whine about everything that doesn't help protect their investment and their stature. "We hate cheap equipment because it enables the amateurs to steal our jobs", "Moan, the band can now afford their own PA", "What will become of me when anyone can buy equipment and produce decent sound?", "Amateurs think that they can buy this new cheap equipment and produce quality sound, and I really hate that because most people can't hear the difference".
The sound pros really need to form a strong union like the French farmers and block the main roads until the proper order of the business is restored.
And please send Uli a mail explaining how it is supposed to be in this line of business, I'm sure he'll be delighted to be educated.
:razz::lol:
No I totally get it, the pro end of the business is a bunch of moaners that whine about everything that doesn't help protect their investment and their stature. "We hate cheap equipment because it enables the amateurs to steal our jobs", "Moan, the band can now afford their own PA", "What will become of me when anyone can buy equipment and produce decent sound?", "Amateurs think that they can buy this new cheap equipment and produce quality sound, and I really hate that because most people can't hear the difference".
The sound pros really need to form a strong union like the French farmers and block the main roads until the proper order of the business is restored.
:razz::lol:
And please send Uli a mail explaining how it is supposed to be in this line of business, I'm sure he'll be delighted to be educated.
:razz::lol:
LOL
I see both sides here - it certainly sucks to buy right before a pretty huge price drop, but on the flip side, protectionism doesn't work either - manufacturers need to stay competitive, and at some point, prices of tech gear always fall. This is a good reminder to have a defined ROI period for your gear. Make sure you can make money with it before it's obsolete. Hopefully we all win more than we lose on this - be happy when the price falls right before you are about to make a big purchase.
[COLOR=#333333 said:Originally Posted by [/COLOR]harrybrilljrI have NEVER used a behringer mixing product that didn't sound like a low rate MP3, and those were analog mixers.
That being said if it's what is in front of me, I use it and do my best and if I think it sounds good at that moment then I won't complain. The look and feel is another thing. I saw one of these X32s (the only one I've ever seen anywhere) last June and it looked like a toy. If that sounds shocking to someone, what I see a lot of are Yamaha, Avid, Soundcraft and Digico. I'm liking the SD9.
Brian jojade;75491]I'll concur with you that the previous Behringer mixers were pretty crappy. As you use higher end gear, you're more likely to notice the subtle differences in audio quality between pieces of gear. I grew up on Mackie mixers, which were far superior to the Behringer copies. However, as I've moved up the scale, if I ever have to go back to one of those boards, I cringe at what comes out of them.
Then comes along the X32. Expectation was that it would be of normal Behringer sucky quality. But in all honesty, I find the sound from the Behringer to be slightly than that from an LS9, and pretty equal to the Soundcraft Compacts that I've used. The layout of the board has been just fine, and not that of a toy at all. The feel of the fader caps and buttons isn't the best, as I would have preferred a more rubberized material, but the level of quality is pretty solid. Reliability over time is yet to be proven, but all signs are pointing to this being a decent system. Percentage of failure rate is as good or better than other offerings.
The Midas X32 addresses the 'toy' feeling of the console by putting a higher quality 'skin' on the internal hardware. For higher end users, the added cost may be worth it for a better feeling piece of hardware, even if the internals are identical.
Dear All,
I'd like to take this time to help answer some of most frequently asked questions regarding the all-new MIDAS M32 console.
MIDAS PRO Series Preamps and Output Audio
The MIDAS M32 utilizes the award-winning MIDAS PRO microphone preamplifiers- the very same ones found in the industry-standard PRO2/3/6/9 consoles. The output DA and audio section is equally identical to the high-quality PRO Series providing an unprecedented audio quality.
MIDAS PRO Motorized Faders
Every MIDAS M32 comes equipped with MIDAS PRO Series faders, which are rated for 1 Million life cycles – three times more than other leading consoles.
Built for Tomorrow
The M32 is a console built for today and tomorrow. As it currently stands, the supported sample rates of the M32 are 48kHz and 44.1kHz. However, its future-proof capable open-architecture design allows for later 96K implementation.
Because it's 48kHz- you have 96 network-able channels (48 channels per AES50 port), allowing multiple (up to six) DL16 Digital Snakes to be routable across the network.
Since the announcement of the M32 last month, we have been overwhelmed with great questions, and overall user excitement. Among those questions are the differences and similarities between the M32 and the X32. Really, it's the similarities that help these desks compliment each other so well- after all, the X32 was designed in part by MIDAS and has become the world's best-selling digital console selling over 100,000 units.
MIDAS M32 employs:
- Genuine MIDAS PRO preamps
- MIDAS PRO output DA Conversion and audio section
- 1,000,000 life cycle MIDAS PRO Series faders
- Innovative design, in collaboration with Rajesh Kutty, high-profile industrial designer for high-performance cars
- Cutting edge materials such as carbon fiber arm rest and light-weight aluminum reinforced sub-frame
Other features include:
- Ability to network with entire X32 Product Family
- MIDAS PRO Series DL251/DL252 Stage Box support
- POWERPLAY P16 Personal Monitoring Integration
- KLARK TEKNIK DN9650 support (via 48K beta* firmware)
- KLARK TEKNIK DN9620 Extender compatible
- KLARK TEKNIK DN9610 Repeater compatible
Be sure to check out the M32 Web Brochure:
MARK Grap GLOB_Artwork_2014 M32 Brochure V2 Flip_2014-02-10_Rev.4 - Powered by aXmag
The M32 will be on display at the Prolight + Sound trade fair on March 12-15 in Frankfurt, Germany.
Lastly, we anticipate the M32 will start shipping world-wide Q2/Q3.
Thank you all for the great questions and curiosity relating to this historic, new MIDAS console.
Best,
Chase McKnight
Specialist, Channel Marketing
MUSIC Group
MIDAS