New Midas M32 Console

Re: New Midas M32 Console

Sam Lynam said:
yes I do lets face it the hardware inside the X32 is not capable of 96k, the M32 is running new faders, preamps, A to D and D to A, and the output section is not the same this thing isnt the same inside read the spec...
Click to expand...
Yes, the hardware is 96k capable, but the dsp engine can't cope with all 32 channels. This has been confirmed by behringer.

One solution is to dedicate both dsp's to do channel processing and limit the fx rack. Another approach is to essentially cut the channel count down to 16 and preserve the fx.

Btw, where do you read that the output section is different?

Also, the cs4385 and cs5368 can handle 192khz without a problem...
 
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Re: New Midas M32 Console

Anyone know when this Midinger is going to be released anyway? Curious as to whether I might get to touch a few buttons and twist a few knobs on it this summer at festivals.
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Sam Lynam said:
yes I do lets face it the hardware inside the X32 is not capable of 96k, the M32 is running new faders, preamps, A to D and D to A, and the output section is not the same this thing isnt the same inside read the spec...
Click to expand...

First of all, nobody ever looked inside of M32 as of yet (I doubt MIDAS will release any internal pics), so all these "different or not" talks are guessing and hearsay. Fact that DL16 and S16 look identical doesn't mean anything. It's a lot cheaper to make a new printed board than a new metal enclosure, it seems pretty logical to put a new preamps in the same metal box already being made for S16. Chase McKinight from MIDAS stated that M32 preamps are MIDAS Pro and are 96K capable (see above in this thread). We have to trust MIDAS at this point, until someone from our community will test DL16 against DL251 and S16, to tell how much the difference in sound will be.

Second, all this 96K vs 48K talk, how it is really important for sound quality? Theoretically -- yes, on real club-level gigs -- I'm not sure, there are so many other factors involved. Badly tuned PA will make crappy sound with any desk. Besides, the preamps design itself, its analog circuitry before signal hits the A/D converters, differs a lot from one preamp to another and makes more difference. You can get M-Audio preamps for under $100, or Apollo for $2K, or AVID Omni for $5K, they all are 96K. Why there's so much of a price difference?

Every tool has it purpose, my X32 already paid for itself after only a few weekend gigs. If I had Pro-2c with DL251 I'm not sure how long it would take me. X32 makes bands and whoever writes the checks happy. I may get Pro-2c just because I like the desk, from business standpoint it doesn't make any sense, at least for my gigs.
 
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Re: New Midas M32 Console

Arik Semagin said:
First of all, nobody ever looked inside of M32 as of yet (I doubt MIDAS will release any internal pics), so all these "different or not" talks are guessing and hearsay. Fact that DL16 and S16 look identical doesn't mean anything. It's a lot cheaper to make a new printed board than a new metal enclosure, it seems pretty logical to put a new preamps in the same metal box already being made for S16. Chase McKinight from MIDAS stated that M32 preamps are MIDAS Pro and are 96K capable (see above in this thread). We have to trust MIDAS at this point, until someone from our community will test DL16 against DL251 and S16, to tell how much the difference in sound will be.

Second, all this 96K vs 48K talk, how it is really important for sound quality? Theoretically -- yes, on real club-level gigs -- I'm not sure, there are so many other factors involved. Badly tuned PA will make crappy sound with any desk. Besides, the preamps design itself, its analog circuitry before signal hits the A/D converters, differs a lot from one preamp to another and makes more difference. You can get M-Audio preamps for under $100, or Apollo for $2K, or AVID Omni for $5K, they all are 96K. Why there's so much of a price difference?

Every tool has it purpose, my X32 already paid for itself after only a few weekend gigs. If I had Pro-2c with DL251 I'm not sure how long it would take me. X32 makes bands and whoever writes the checks happy. I may get Pro-2c just because I like the desk, from business standpoint it doesn't make any sense, at least for my gigs.
Click to expand...

love your comment wholeheartedly agree. my point that im trying to get over is that the X32 isnt a bad desk yes it has its faults but i cant fault it for the money. on the other hand im buying the M32 because i believe it will stand up as a better desk....
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Sam Lynam said:
yes I do lets face it the hardware inside the X32 is not capable of 96k, the M32 is running new faders, preamps, A to D and D to A, and the output section is not the same this thing isnt the same inside read the spec...
Click to expand...

Look at the presentation from NAMM, the guy makes a big deal about the preamps and the faders, doesn't mention any other differences.
My guess is it isn't mentioned because it doesn't exist. We are looking at a repackaged X32 with new inputs and new faders, that's it, ....for now.
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Sam Lynam said:
love your comment wholeheartedly agree. my point that im trying to get over is that the X32 isnt a bad desk yes it has its faults but i cant fault it for the money. on the other hand im buying the M32 because i believe it will stand up as a better desk....
Click to expand...

We agree on this :)~:-)~:smile:
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Per Søvik said:
Look at the presentation from NAMM, the guy makes a big deal about the preamps and the faders, doesn't mention any other differences.
My guess is it isn't mentioned because it doesn't exist. We are looking at a repackaged X32 with new inputs and new faders, that's it, ....for now.
Click to expand...

As Chase McKnight said above, they are still working on M32, NAMM version is not the final one that will be shipping. Guess that's why they didn't go deep into new features at NAMM presentation, not to promise something what may not be implemented. Anyway, we'll have a choice. Those who want MIDAS will pay more for M32, those who only care about sound quality and features will stay with X32. The choice between an Audi and a Volkswagen.
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Chase McKnight said:
As the M32 is still in final development, at the current time we cannot comment on how 96kHz will be implemented. We will follow up with more information as it becomes available.
Click to expand...

I would really like to see a bigger screen, 11" with the same resolution would help a lot for us grown-ups, and it would make the M32 look more "pro" as a bonus.

A couple of buttons here and there wouldn't go amiss either, a couple on the left for extra layers like custom layers and remote layers, and a couple for the right bank as well.
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Per Søvik said:
I would really like to see a bigger screen, 11" with the same resolution would help a lot for us grown-ups, and it would make the M32 look more "pro" as a bonus.
Click to expand...

I think a trick Midas so far have missed with all the fancy Bentley-derived industrial design, would be to add to the frame a point where a mounting bracket could be securely attached, to allow customers to use a computer monitor, similar to how screens are attached to some Avid and Digico consoles.

The display would use a standard connection, wired to the desk. Then I can't see why it would be complicated for the user to choose whether the screen either mirrors the smaller one on the desk (very handy for outdoors in the sun) or the X Control/iPad app display - depending on what was remotely controlling the console.

If they were very generous they could even add the option of a dedicated metering display, giving a nice overview of levels (and preferably a choice of other useful info). I think with digital desks 32+ channels is around the number where a layout of metering giving you a picture of all the I/O at a glance becomes really handy.

I've often thought adding the facility to attach your own screen to any of the small format digital desks would be a smart addition for a relatively small cost. Even if no new specific screen display was provided (which presumably would be the cheapest way) it would be handy to simply mirror and enlarge either/or the existing small console screen, and the iPad screen (or whatever remote control device was linked up).

Given the emphasis/marketing puff Midas have publicised in respect of the new "industrial design" aspect of the M32 - it would be nice if some part of that includes some genuine functionality improvement. They could even include screen mounting brackets, in keeping with the rest of the stylish exterior.

To my mind - if they added this kind of useful new feature, an improvement and addition to the underlying X32 architecture - it would show a tangible increase in practical functionality. It would show smart technical progression beyond better pres and faders, which could de-emphasise the "X32 in Midas drag" impression with which some have negatively characterised the M32.

Looking at the wish list/feature creep others have produced, some of which could be prohibitively expensive - this idea in it's simplest implementation seems quite realistic cost-wise by comparison.

Sent from my GT-I8160 2
 
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Re: New Midas M32 Console

Robert Lofgren said:
Yes, the hardware is 96k capable, but the dsp engine can't cope with all 32 channels. This has been confirmed by behringer.

One solution is to dedicate both dsp's to do channel processing and limit the fx rack. Another approach is to essentially cut the channel count down to 16 and preserve the fx.

Btw, where do you read that the output section is different?

Also, the cs4385 and cs5368 can handle 192khz without a problem...
Click to expand...

The A/D and D/A chips are configurable and can handle 192Khz as you state. This would allow 96Khz processing without niquist issues.

The existing processor is a 3rd gen SHARC processor 213XX I believe. There is a 4th gen 214XX which not only clocks nearly 2x as fast, but also includes integrated FFT hardware calculations as well as other SIMD processing engines which should raise the processing power much more than 2X over the current design. This processor is reportedly available in a pin compatible and code compatible version.

My speculation is that either the M32 will ship with this processor installed and require only a firmware update to achieve 96Khz processing ..... or they will provide a socket for the processor and allow an easy update in the future that requires you send your mixer in to get both a hardware and firmware update.

[/end speculation].

At any rate, I don't believe that the X32 processing is capable of 96Khz with the existing features and channel count without hardware modification .... but that is also speculation.
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Scott Bolt said:
At any rate, I don't believe that the X32 processing is capable of 96Khz with the existing features and channel count without hardware modification .... but that is also speculation.
Click to expand...

+1 on that. X32 is fine at 48K as of now. Channel count or number of FX increase would be more welcome upgrade than 96K.

Just wondering why nobody is complaining about 48K in the most requested desk in business - the Profile? As well as Yammies? Do they count 48K differently?
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Guy Graham said:
I think a trick Midas so far have missed with all the fancy Bentley-derived industrial design, would be to add to the frame a point where a mounting bracket could be securely attached, to allow customers to use a computer monitor, similar to how screens are attached to some Avid and Digico consoles.

The display would use a standard connection, wired to the desk. Then I can't see why it would be complicated for the user to choose whether the screen either mirrors the smaller one on the desk (very handy for outdoors in the sun) or the X Control/iPad app display - depending on what was remotely controlling the console.
Click to expand...

+1 on that. Just give me these three things: VGA or DVI port for external monitor and additional USB ports for mouse and keyboard, a-la-MIDAS Pro, and I'll make my own monitor bracket. Two screens or split screen would be even better.

As example, AVID S3L surface design sucks (even Presonus SL desks looks better), but the DVI port for a standard computer monitor of any size (30" if you wish) gives it a killer look overall! (I mean only the external all-black rubberized layout that sucks, not the functionality. S3L modular concept wins both hands!)
s3l_dmetz_1.jpeg
 
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Re: New Midas M32 Console

Arik Semagin said:
+1 on that. X32 is fine at 48K as of now. Channel count or number of FX increase would be more welcome upgrade than 96K.

Just wondering why nobody is complaining about 48K in the most requested desk in business - the Profile? As well as Yammies? Do they count 48K differently?
Click to expand...

Well, sort of. 96k is overrated imho. There are some Yammies that are capable of operating at 96k, some prefer it, some don't care. I personally think that the "96k ready" tag on the M32 is the least significant selling point. Especially because it is only a future option.

Gesendet von meinem XT910 mit Tapatalk
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Arik Semagin said:
+1 on that. X32 is fine at 48K as of now. Channel count or number of FX increase would be more welcome upgrade than 96K.

Just wondering why nobody is complaining about 48K in the most requested desk in business - the Profile? As well as Yammies? Do they count 48K differently?
Click to expand...

At 48K processing, the desk should be able to reproduce frequencies up to 24Khz without any aliasing. Does anyone have an explanation of how it is even possible for anyone to hear the difference between 48Khz and 96Khz (all other things being equal)?

While there may be some young people out there that can hear >20Khz, most speakers can't really produce sound above that frequency ..... and even if they did, I would think it would be quite directional and dissipate very rapidly over a fairly short distance.
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Scott Bolt said:
At 48K processing, the desk should be able to reproduce frequencies up to 24Khz without any aliasing. Does anyone have an explanation of how it is even possible for anyone to hear the difference between 48Khz and 96Khz (all other things being equal)?

While there may be some young people out there that can hear >20Khz, most speakers can't really produce sound above that frequency ..... and even if they did, I would think it would be quite directional and dissipate very rapidly over a fairly short distance.
Click to expand...

Latency at 96Khz is half, and that is a very good thing.
Sonically, I'm not sure I can tell the difference...
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

At the risk of (re)stating the obvious, offering the higher sampling rate seems like a good way to provide a hook for merchandisers to differentiate between otherwise similar technology common to the two brands.

It's immaterial how different it really is, it's about the customers perception of it.

JR
 
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