New Midas M32 Console
- Thread starter Juergen Riemann
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Re: New Midas M32 Console
Hate to burst your Midas bubble but watch this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3zIzB3ZcYM
3:21 is the naïve spot when the Midas man talks about the V2 software released for the X32.
Also "works with S16", "works with P16M" and on and on it goes. If you think Midas was going to do a ground up build of major internal boards then you may have to look in the mirror.
Hate to burst your Midas bubble but watch this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3zIzB3ZcYM
3:21 is the naïve spot when the Midas man talks about the V2 software released for the X32.
Also "works with S16", "works with P16M" and on and on it goes. If you think Midas was going to do a ground up build of major internal boards then you may have to look in the mirror.
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Re: New Midas M32 Console
Whether that is true or not, it would make perfect sense. The X32 development team has all the know-how, redesigning the input/output to be true Midas can be done by anyone, just as specking Midas faders and adding some screening and other minor tweaks is a piece of cake for a team that have had a couple of years to ponder any early mistakes with the X32.
Whether that is true or not, it would make perfect sense. The X32 development team has all the know-how, redesigning the input/output to be true Midas can be done by anyone, just as specking Midas faders and adding some screening and other minor tweaks is a piece of cake for a team that have had a couple of years to ponder any early mistakes with the X32.
Re: New Midas M32 Console
Exactly, Per! Who the F. cares? X32 sounds great, is well worth its price and Behringer keeps improving it with every firmware release. If someone is willing to throw another $2K for MIDAS badge (to please certain customers), let them have it! I don't really care if M32 was developed entirely by X32 team with some MIDAS R&D input. Practically, at $5K (in US) MIDAS Pro 1 makes more sense than M32: More channels, 96K all the way, MIDAS pres, flexible routing AND no more of "the same" or "not the same" talks! I've seen Pro 1 popping up even on eBay below $6K!
It's all marketing and Behringer is damn good at it! Some people will buy a Volkswagen, those who care about name badge will pay more for Audi, those with less $$$ will get Skoda: The same car with different logos at the grille and some non-significant differences .....
If Uli would've bought DiGiCo or A&H, I'm pretty sure there will be versions of X32 stamped with these names, respectively, for those who care about name badge. Otherwise.... frankly, do you really need SD9 or Pro-2 for a club gig in front of less than 100 people?
Exactly, Per! Who the F. cares? X32 sounds great, is well worth its price and Behringer keeps improving it with every firmware release. If someone is willing to throw another $2K for MIDAS badge (to please certain customers), let them have it! I don't really care if M32 was developed entirely by X32 team with some MIDAS R&D input. Practically, at $5K (in US) MIDAS Pro 1 makes more sense than M32: More channels, 96K all the way, MIDAS pres, flexible routing AND no more of "the same" or "not the same" talks! I've seen Pro 1 popping up even on eBay below $6K!
It's all marketing and Behringer is damn good at it! Some people will buy a Volkswagen, those who care about name badge will pay more for Audi, those with less $$$ will get Skoda: The same car with different logos at the grille and some non-significant differences .....
If Uli would've bought DiGiCo or A&H, I'm pretty sure there will be versions of X32 stamped with these names, respectively, for those who care about name badge. Otherwise.... frankly, do you really need SD9 or Pro-2 for a club gig in front of less than 100 people?
Re: New Midas M32 Console
The I/o boards will be different (different pre-amps), the fader boards will be different, and there is the chance that the DSP's will be more powerful to be able to add 96khz operation in the future but everything else will be the same as the X32.
The idea was to have real midas preamps in a cost effective package. Allowing people to have Midas on the cheap is a no brainer. This should take a lot of sales away from competitors (again!).
The I/o boards will be different (different pre-amps), the fader boards will be different, and there is the chance that the DSP's will be more powerful to be able to add 96khz operation in the future but everything else will be the same as the X32.
The idea was to have real midas preamps in a cost effective package. Allowing people to have Midas on the cheap is a no brainer. This should take a lot of sales away from competitors (again!).
Re: New Midas M32 Console
Does the typical club gig in front of less than 100 people really need a confusing digital desk with every option that "engineers" THINK they need? My answer is a resounding "no."
I honestly with my whole heart think that that show would be better off with an AH mixwixard. Whether you think so or not, the ability to control every aspect of audio for a performance is not a positive thing.
The last time I walked up to an x32 to mix a band I frequent with, EVERY SINGLE channel comp was set to 0ms attack, 10ms release (or whatever the fastest is) and 10ms hold time (or whatever... what the hell is a hold time doing on a compressor?!?) The other thing that pissed me the fvck off, was the factory comp on the two bus. The PA owner had it set to 100:1, 0ms attack, and 3 FVCKING SECONDS for a release. I changed it, the PA sounded MUCH better, still wasn't hitting the rig hard at all. (This dude had LG PLM amps, I shit you not... he had 2 plm 20000 and 2 plm 14000... and a fvcking x32...)
I would have rather had an AH 2400, and I'd just patch in the outboard that I carry.
Too much control is dangerous more often than not...
Is the x32 a great console? No. Do you get a lot of features for the price? Absolutely, no questions!
My issue with this desk is that it puts Ferrari performance in the hands of a 16 year old with their learners permit. I'm thinking that they should still take the bus: A mixwiz... Well built, affordable, easy to use, hard to mess up. Yeah, you might not get leather and aircon and 9000 horsepower, but I think it's better suited to the needs of the operator.
Does the typical club gig in front of less than 100 people really need a confusing digital desk with every option that "engineers" THINK they need? My answer is a resounding "no."
I honestly with my whole heart think that that show would be better off with an AH mixwixard. Whether you think so or not, the ability to control every aspect of audio for a performance is not a positive thing.
The last time I walked up to an x32 to mix a band I frequent with, EVERY SINGLE channel comp was set to 0ms attack, 10ms release (or whatever the fastest is) and 10ms hold time (or whatever... what the hell is a hold time doing on a compressor?!?) The other thing that pissed me the fvck off, was the factory comp on the two bus. The PA owner had it set to 100:1, 0ms attack, and 3 FVCKING SECONDS for a release. I changed it, the PA sounded MUCH better, still wasn't hitting the rig hard at all. (This dude had LG PLM amps, I shit you not... he had 2 plm 20000 and 2 plm 14000... and a fvcking x32...)
I would have rather had an AH 2400, and I'd just patch in the outboard that I carry.
Too much control is dangerous more often than not...
Is the x32 a great console? No. Do you get a lot of features for the price? Absolutely, no questions!
My issue with this desk is that it puts Ferrari performance in the hands of a 16 year old with their learners permit. I'm thinking that they should still take the bus: A mixwiz... Well built, affordable, easy to use, hard to mess up. Yeah, you might not get leather and aircon and 9000 horsepower, but I think it's better suited to the needs of the operator.
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Re: New Midas M32 Console
Things to note:
different pre amps
different input section
different output section
96khz compatible (future proof)
same software (originally written by Midas rebranded for behringer I don't have this from a friend of a friend I have this from Midas r&d)
Different faders
Built in the new Midas factory
All these things effect the internals of this console yes it shares the same software but the coding behind it will be different to handle the different hardware sonically it won't be the same because of the improved hardware. But the bottom line until it comes out we won't have the final say on what it is I'm still wondering if the new dl 16 may be 96k which is why they are holding off on it but who knows.
Things to note:
different pre amps
different input section
different output section
96khz compatible (future proof)
same software (originally written by Midas rebranded for behringer I don't have this from a friend of a friend I have this from Midas r&d)
Different faders
Built in the new Midas factory
All these things effect the internals of this console yes it shares the same software but the coding behind it will be different to handle the different hardware sonically it won't be the same because of the improved hardware. But the bottom line until it comes out we won't have the final say on what it is I'm still wondering if the new dl 16 may be 96k which is why they are holding off on it but who knows.
Re: New Midas M32 Console
We have been very open about the fact that M32 is based on the core X32 design. What many people may not be so aware of is that the X32 project was itself a joint development between all our Research and Development teams with a very major contribution from our Midas engineers in Manchester and Kidderminster, UK.
All the FPGA code and many other aspects of the console were designed by Midas engineers. All the iPad Apps are developed by my colleagues in Manchester. The 'Powered by Midas' logo is no mere badge-engineering, the X32 has a great deal of Midas DNA in it.
The M32 has very different audio circuit designs to X32, with the microphone preamplifier, analogue-to digital and digital-to-analogue conversion stages identical to those in the Midas PRO series consoles developed by our Manchester team. As a result the M32 features an enhanced audio performance including an improved signal-to-noise ratio as well as the Midas sound signature.
The industrial and mechanical design for M32 was a joint effort by an external designer who did work for Bentley Motors and a highly talented industrial design colleague of mine, who is based in our Manchester office.
I personally have been with Midas for 18 years and I am now based in China together with many other British engineers that also have been with Midas for many years, and I have worked closely with our Manchester team for over a decade, since its inception in 2003. I was responsible for leading the development of the Midas PRO motor fader, which is specified for 1 million life cycles and is also incorporated in the M32.
The manufacturing of all Midas, Klark Teknik and Turbosound products is managed and supervised by a team of British engineers who are stationed in our facility in China.
MUSIC Group is a multinational organisation and many of our projects are joint development efforts between the many global engineering teams. MUSIC Group’s true strength is its highly capable and multi-disciplined Research and Development team, with over 300 engineers worldwide. I feel very privileged to be amongst the company of so many highly talented engineers, and am proud of our many achievements, in particular the M32.
Al Walker
Senior Engineer, Systems
MUSIC Group
We have been very open about the fact that M32 is based on the core X32 design. What many people may not be so aware of is that the X32 project was itself a joint development between all our Research and Development teams with a very major contribution from our Midas engineers in Manchester and Kidderminster, UK.
All the FPGA code and many other aspects of the console were designed by Midas engineers. All the iPad Apps are developed by my colleagues in Manchester. The 'Powered by Midas' logo is no mere badge-engineering, the X32 has a great deal of Midas DNA in it.
The M32 has very different audio circuit designs to X32, with the microphone preamplifier, analogue-to digital and digital-to-analogue conversion stages identical to those in the Midas PRO series consoles developed by our Manchester team. As a result the M32 features an enhanced audio performance including an improved signal-to-noise ratio as well as the Midas sound signature.
The industrial and mechanical design for M32 was a joint effort by an external designer who did work for Bentley Motors and a highly talented industrial design colleague of mine, who is based in our Manchester office.
I personally have been with Midas for 18 years and I am now based in China together with many other British engineers that also have been with Midas for many years, and I have worked closely with our Manchester team for over a decade, since its inception in 2003. I was responsible for leading the development of the Midas PRO motor fader, which is specified for 1 million life cycles and is also incorporated in the M32.
The manufacturing of all Midas, Klark Teknik and Turbosound products is managed and supervised by a team of British engineers who are stationed in our facility in China.
MUSIC Group is a multinational organisation and many of our projects are joint development efforts between the many global engineering teams. MUSIC Group’s true strength is its highly capable and multi-disciplined Research and Development team, with over 300 engineers worldwide. I feel very privileged to be amongst the company of so many highly talented engineers, and am proud of our many achievements, in particular the M32.
Al Walker
Senior Engineer, Systems
MUSIC Group
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Re: New Midas M32 Console
Built in the new Midas factory? You mean the Behringer factory? The exact same place where the x32 AND the pro series is built?
Face it, people started to call out mr b on the "designed by midas, with midas preamps" deal with the original x32 and now after they've recouped enough money, they're doing THE EXACT SAME MARKETING TECHNIQUE OVER AGAIN!!! This new one is also "designed by midas, with midas preamps" however, were led to believe that THIS TIME it's real?!? If I had bought an x32 based on the old marketing, I would be fvcking pissed... People were lied to.
Built in the new Midas factory? You mean the Behringer factory? The exact same place where the x32 AND the pro series is built?
Face it, people started to call out mr b on the "designed by midas, with midas preamps" deal with the original x32 and now after they've recouped enough money, they're doing THE EXACT SAME MARKETING TECHNIQUE OVER AGAIN!!! This new one is also "designed by midas, with midas preamps" however, were led to believe that THIS TIME it's real?!? If I had bought an x32 based on the old marketing, I would be fvcking pissed... People were lied to.
Re: New Midas M32 Console
I'm not going to knock you for doing your job, but I would recommend that you recommend to mr b that Midas and Turbo and KT distance themselves from the behringer marketing department. Those brands are taking on a very amateur aura to them.
This is not only in print ads either... The *what has become standard* replies by behringer employees on forums such as this one read more as scripted marketing hyperbole than actual human beings dealing with actual problems. I associate this with calling an 800 number for service with your cable company, and having to push 25 other numbers to talk to an actual human being. Copy and paste responses suck.
I only bring this up because your post sounds exactly like a second year marketing student's semester final project.
Al, if you really really are the senior engineer for MUSIC (stop fvcking capitalizing your brand names; They're not that important) Group, I want to hear from YOU. NOT what your marketing department/lawyers tell you to say.
A great first step? Admit that mr behringer lied. The x32 does NOT HAVE MIDAS MIC AMPS. They might have been designed by a 19 year old employee of Midas, but they are no more Midas mic amps than a Kleenex branded toothpick is a tissue.
I'm not going to knock you for doing your job, but I would recommend that you recommend to mr b that Midas and Turbo and KT distance themselves from the behringer marketing department. Those brands are taking on a very amateur aura to them.
This is not only in print ads either... The *what has become standard* replies by behringer employees on forums such as this one read more as scripted marketing hyperbole than actual human beings dealing with actual problems. I associate this with calling an 800 number for service with your cable company, and having to push 25 other numbers to talk to an actual human being. Copy and paste responses suck.
I only bring this up because your post sounds exactly like a second year marketing student's semester final project.
Al, if you really really are the senior engineer for MUSIC (stop fvcking capitalizing your brand names; They're not that important) Group, I want to hear from YOU. NOT what your marketing department/lawyers tell you to say.
A great first step? Admit that mr behringer lied. The x32 does NOT HAVE MIDAS MIC AMPS. They might have been designed by a 19 year old employee of Midas, but they are no more Midas mic amps than a Kleenex branded toothpick is a tissue.
Re: New Midas M32 Console
Be real man... I agree that I don't think the desk sounds GREAT, but for the money it's more than acceptable. (as long as you don't tweak every setting when you don't know what a millisecond is...)
It might be a POS, but for the price these "pieces" sell for, they're well worth it. I don't like them, I would never buy one, however quite a few people are making money off of them. THAT IS the whole point of ANY tool: To gain a return on investment.
I think Facebook is stupid and retarded, and I don't have a fb page; However it would be asinine to think that FB stock wasn't a great investment 7 years ago.
No.
No.
It's a POS. Sorry to break your illusions
Be real man... I agree that I don't think the desk sounds GREAT, but for the money it's more than acceptable. (as long as you don't tweak every setting when you don't know what a millisecond is...)
It might be a POS, but for the price these "pieces" sell for, they're well worth it. I don't like them, I would never buy one, however quite a few people are making money off of them. THAT IS the whole point of ANY tool: To gain a return on investment.
I think Facebook is stupid and retarded, and I don't have a fb page; However it would be asinine to think that FB stock wasn't a great investment 7 years ago.
Re: New Midas M32 Console
wow, lot of angry people. The X32 is a popular mixer in europe and people are happy with the product....if you do not like, buy other mixer and no need to be negative and unfriendly to al walker who is helpful.
wow, lot of angry people. The X32 is a popular mixer in europe and people are happy with the product....if you do not like, buy other mixer and no need to be negative and unfriendly to al walker who is helpful.
Re: New Midas M32 Console
I really hope that the attitude of some posters aren't scaring behringer/MG from participating with their, in my opinion, mostly valuable feedback on customer questions. I don't mind some marketing jargong embedded. It's part of the game.
I really hope that the attitude of some posters aren't scaring behringer/MG from participating with their, in my opinion, mostly valuable feedback on customer questions. I don't mind some marketing jargong embedded. It's part of the game.
Re: New Midas M32 Console
Thanks al walker for some insite from inside of Midas doors
Thanks al walker for some insite from inside of Midas doors
Re: New Midas M32 Console
and many are...
Good luck... Some large chinese electronic manufacturers are expanding with new factories in Africa to deal with the rising labor costs in China. So far the labor in Africa is cheaper than China, but the workers are not as productive (yet), but it is early days for that continent. You are not in as price competitive a market as TV set and pure consumer goods makers but even China is getting more expensive these days, so the advantage of building there is eroding somewhat.
JR
and many are...
This is easy to believe as the X-32 has exceeded the expectations of many industry watchers.
I guess this would show up in objective data sheet numbers.
I thought Bentley's expertise was in making expensive automobiles?
Congratulations on the fader design, I appreciate how easily that could have been screwed up. You did good. [edit] I was thinking congrats on the x32 fader [/edit]
Good luck... Some large chinese electronic manufacturers are expanding with new factories in Africa to deal with the rising labor costs in China. So far the labor in Africa is cheaper than China, but the workers are not as productive (yet), but it is early days for that continent. You are not in as price competitive a market as TV set and pure consumer goods makers but even China is getting more expensive these days, so the advantage of building there is eroding somewhat.
JR
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Re: New Midas M32 Console
I can't tell if this business does or does not care about actual audio quality related components. Before digital, what would you call a console with new preamps, faders, and a surface? A different console! Now just because two desks share a software package people are calling them clones. Everyone was SO worried about how the preamps in the X32 would sound, but now that Midas Heritage / XL4 preamps are available in a $5000 desk no one cares about preamps anymore. The converters from the pro series are seemingly of little discussion as well, despite being one in the same with the Pro series. From what I can tell, everyone said "hey lets worry about the X32 because the sound of preamps and converters, and the reliability of critical components like faders matter". In comes M32 with historically successful and high end pres, converters, and faders, and nobody cares about those components anymore! All anyone will talk about is how it is the same software - which has been pretty damn well received anyway. Discussions of music group products around here are apparently pretty logically inconsistent.
I can't tell if this business does or does not care about actual audio quality related components. Before digital, what would you call a console with new preamps, faders, and a surface? A different console! Now just because two desks share a software package people are calling them clones. Everyone was SO worried about how the preamps in the X32 would sound, but now that Midas Heritage / XL4 preamps are available in a $5000 desk no one cares about preamps anymore. The converters from the pro series are seemingly of little discussion as well, despite being one in the same with the Pro series. From what I can tell, everyone said "hey lets worry about the X32 because the sound of preamps and converters, and the reliability of critical components like faders matter". In comes M32 with historically successful and high end pres, converters, and faders, and nobody cares about those components anymore! All anyone will talk about is how it is the same software - which has been pretty damn well received anyway. Discussions of music group products around here are apparently pretty logically inconsistent.
Re: New Midas M32 Console
M32? another x32....
but the real question is....why presents months before a mixer not ready? yamaha (for example) launches its products only when they are ready, with all support....not when is the time ( market).
M32? another x32....
but the real question is....why presents months before a mixer not ready? yamaha (for example) launches its products only when they are ready, with all support....not when is the time ( market).
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Re: New Midas M32 Console
I agree with you 150% - I've asked them why do you show a product for 2 years then bring it out. The iX16 was advertised for over a year and a half never to come out, then in this NAMM show it is the X18, when will it be ready for sale? In about 3 more months, maybe or until the next show and the next model, the X20 for next year. No one does that but Behringer.
I agree with you 150% - I've asked them why do you show a product for 2 years then bring it out. The iX16 was advertised for over a year and a half never to come out, then in this NAMM show it is the X18, when will it be ready for sale? In about 3 more months, maybe or until the next show and the next model, the X20 for next year. No one does that but Behringer.
Re: New Midas M32 Console
I really hate defending Behringer but this is not that rare. I've seen products from companies that were shown for years at trade shows and never made it to market.
It can even be illegal if vapor-ware (a name from the computer industry) is shown to suppress a competitor's sales when the product is not really ready to ship, but this is rarely (never?) prosecuted in the MI business.
JR
I really hate defending Behringer but this is not that rare. I've seen products from companies that were shown for years at trade shows and never made it to market.
It can even be illegal if vapor-ware (a name from the computer industry) is shown to suppress a competitor's sales when the product is not really ready to ship, but this is rarely (never?) prosecuted in the MI business.
JR