New Midas M32 Console

Re: New Midas M32 Console

Near as I can tell the answer is
Select the fader bank with the monitor aux
Select the aux
Flip to faders
Select the fader bank with the bass
Pull down the fader
Select the fader channel for the aux
Select the eq onto the screen
Make the necessary change
Bring the bass fader back up

During that time I have to look at about 6 different places on the board all the while keeping my eye on the bass player to see if I have solved the problem and hoping he doesn't decide while waiting to make eq changes at his end.

Oh we are now ready to start the song well let me start deselecting the reverse to get back to the vocal in the mains and the effects I need for that song.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Jay Barracato said:
Its not just the possibility of getting lost. It is the number of steps to get to the control you need. I am rolling along during a show with the left faders on the second bank so the lead vocal is under my fingers and the effects sends on the third bank of the right faders preparing for the next song. The acoustic bass starts to take off in the monitor channel. The frequency that is taking off because it is building up under the tent over the stage has been noticeably missing in the foh system.

What steps do you have to go through to first pull down the bass in the monitor, second adjust the eq for just the monitor, and then bring the level back up?

Did I mention you are standing side stage where you cannot clearly hear either the monitors or the mains, and while there is an iPad provided with the board, because we were the last band of the day it is now being recharged and would be useless anyway because the band attracted 10 times more people to that stage than it is seen all day and they are packed elbow to asshole and there is no way to step away from the board to hear the speakers.

Welcome to the walk up gig at a street fair provided by the company with a nice new stack of x32s

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD
Click to expand...

This is why a "side stage mixer with a tablet remote does not constitute an acceptable FOH mixing position for the purposes of this rider. Any console found in this position MUST be located per our requirements, prior to sound check. Please have our settlement ready in the form of cash or cashier's check."
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Jay Barracato said:
Near as I can tell the answer is
Select the fader bank with the monitor aux
Select the aux
Flip to faders
Select the fader bank with the bass
Pull down the fader
Select the fader channel for the aux
Select the eq onto the screen
Make the necessary change
Bring the bass fader back up

During that time I have to look at about 6 different places on the board all the while keeping my eye on the bass player to see if I have solved the problem and hoping he doesn't decide while waiting to make eq changes at his end.

Oh we are now ready to start the song well let me start deselecting the reverse to get back to the vocal in the mains and the effects I need for that song.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD
Click to expand...
Well, it's hardly the x32's fault that the mix/monitor position sucks and that the ipad is down..

Looking at what you wrote and if this was the way I had to mix I'd probably assign the fx mute and sends to the udk's so it is accessible all the time.

I'd then operate the right side mostly with dca's. The left side would have the 4'th layer selected so that all mixbuses were available for monitor duties and/or submixes.

So when the need comes to adjust the bass monitor I'd just select the proper mixbus and grab the dedicated eq-controls to the left of the lcd. If I need to view the eq/rta I'd just as easily press the view-button on the eq control section.

So with a 'proper' setup the needed steps are

1) Press select on left fader bank
2) Adjust the eq using the dedicated controls
3) Optional. Press view to look at eq-curve and rta. When finished click view again to return to your previous view.

This, while having access to the right hand dca's for mixing duties, left hand have access to all monitor levels + submixes and the udk's for fx control.

Looking at the ever so popular ls-9, how would you address your mixing issue described above?
 
Last edited:
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Ls9 you have a button to go directly to any mix from anywhere. But I am not sure that an ls9 is a good choice for that type of festival either.

And while I am sure there are workable work a rounds, since it is not my desk I would prefer not to have to use my limited time to program things to be easy to use.

If you like the desk that is fine but I reserve the right to say that it is currently my least favorite desk and why. It is simply that having too many functions on the same controls ( the faders) means I have to spend too much time looking down at the desk to make sure where I am rather than looking up at the stage.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Jay Barracato said:
And while I am sure there are workable work a rounds, since it is not my desk I would prefer not to have to use my limited time to program things to be easy to use.
Click to expand...
Setting up subgroups (and vca's where available) is to me digital mixers 101 and the first thing I check out. I do not consider that to be substantial programming.

Regarding the udk's I'll agree that so e extra effort is needed to program them so time constraint could be an issue at hand.

So everything comes down to workflow and how familiar you are with a console. The functionality might be there but you don't know how to utilize it for your own benefit.
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

I am talking about a festival setting where I have 6-10 minutes max to get the band on stage and playing.

I am talking about using someone else's board that is preset according to their mix style.

I may take me a couple of minutes to figure out how they are routed already let alone make some changes.

I never said I don't know how to do these work arounds. I said that type of programming is excessive and should be unnecessary for these types of gigs. Hell I consider it a win when they system and stage techs can tell me how they are patched already and it works on the first go around.

You can justify you like of this board all you want. I reserved judgement until I had enough shows under my belt to make an informed decision. I don't like it. This is not a brand oriented bias. It is completely about workflow and ergonomics. Maybe setting up the iPad or computer so I could look past it to the stage would help ( like Venue), but right now it seems to be everyone's new toy to trot out to these festivals regardless of whether it is really an appropriate tool or not.

A band mixing themselves from stage...sure why not.

A band mixing their own iem monitors... Sure great choice.

For a festival with limited changeover and walkup techs... For me thank you no.

Some of that may be the desk and some may be how the desk was setup. Maybe one day I will walkup to a desk set up by a power user and that will change my mind. But now when I go by FOH before our set and see the X32 it us not a happy feeling I get.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Jay Barracato said:
I am talking about a festival setting where I have 6-10 minutes max to get the band on stage and playing.

I am talking about using someone else's board that is preset according to their mix style.

I may take me a couple of minutes to figure out how they are routed already let alone make some changes.

I never said I don't know how to do these work arounds. I said that type of programming is excessive and should be unnecessary for these types of gigs. Hell I consider it a win when they system and stage techs can tell me how they are patched already and it works on the first go around.

You can justify you like of this board all you want. I reserved judgement until I had enough shows under my belt to make an informed decision. I don't like it. This is not a brand oriented bias. It is completely about workflow and ergonomics. Maybe setting up the iPad or computer so I could look past it to the stage would help ( like Venue), but right now it seems to be everyone's new toy to trot out to these festivals regardless of whether it is really an appropriate tool or not.

A band mixing themselves from stage...sure why not.

A band mixing their own iem monitors... Sure great choice.

For a festival with limited changeover and walkup techs... For me thank you no.

Some of that may be the desk and some may be how the desk was setup. Maybe one day I will walkup to a desk set up by a power user and that will change my mind. But now when I go by FOH before our set and see the X32 it us not a happy feeling I get.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD
Click to expand...

At the festivals we support, there is no such thing as "monitors from FOH" but there is such a thing as X32 at each end of the "C" stage snake.
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Jay Barracato said:
I am talking about a festival setting where I have 6-10 minutes max to get the band on stage and playing.

I am talking about using someone else's board that is preset according to their mix style.

I may take me a couple of minutes to figure out how they are routed already let alone make some changes.

I never said I don't know how to do these work arounds. I said that type of programming is excessive and should be unnecessary for these types of gigs. Hell I consider it a win when they system and stage techs can tell me how they are patched already and it works on the first go around.

You can justify you like of this board all you want. I reserved judgement until I had enough shows under my belt to make an informed decision. I don't like it. This is not a brand oriented bias. It is completely about workflow and ergonomics. Maybe setting up the iPad or computer so I could look past it to the stage would help ( like Venue), but right now it seems to be everyone's new toy to trot out to these festivals regardless of whether it is really an appropriate tool or not.

A band mixing themselves from stage...sure why not.

A band mixing their own iem monitors... Sure great choice.

For a festival with limited changeover and walkup techs... For me thank you no.

Some of that may be the desk and some may be how the desk was setup. Maybe one day I will walkup to a desk set up by a power user and that will change my mind. But now when I go by FOH before our set and see the X32 it us not a happy feeling I get.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD
Click to expand...

I think this is a matter of "to each his own", you guys both have valid arguments.

I've gotten to the point where I'm quite comfortable doing throw and go style shows on the X32, familiarity and muscle memory make a big difference. I have watched new users fumble around on the board trying to remember what functions are where on the board - and sometimes the same function is accessible from several different locations, so I do see Jay's point.
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

There are enough X-32 and soon M-32 out there that it is probably worth learning their secret handshakes.

That is the primary trade-off in digital consoles, but I don't see us ever getting that genie back in the bottle, so time to learn how to deal with it.

Good luck

JR
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Jay Barracato said:
Near as I can tell the answer is
Select the fader bank with the monitor aux
Select the aux
Flip to faders
Select the fader bank with the bass
Pull down the fader
Select the fader channel for the aux
Select the eq onto the screen
Make the necessary change
Bring the bass fader back up

During that time I have to look at about 6 different places on the board all the while keeping my eye on the bass player to see if I have solved the problem and hoping he doesn't decide while waiting to make eq changes at his end.

Oh we are now ready to start the song well let me start deselecting the reverse to get back to the vocal in the mains and the effects I need for that song.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD
Click to expand...

Your post serves as an answer to that question "why wouldn't someone want as many features as possible"? With the current technology, additional features seem to come with the cost of complexity and slowness of response in a live situation. Sometimes a simpler board with a more "hands on" control is the best choice.
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Jay Barracato said:
Near as I can tell the answer is
Select the fader bank with the monitor aux
Select the aux
Flip to faders
Select the fader bank with the bass
Pull down the fader
Select the fader channel for the aux
Select the eq onto the screen
Make the necessary change
Bring the bass fader back up

During that time I have to look at about 6 different places on the board all the while keeping my eye on the bass player to see if I have solved the problem and hoping he doesn't decide while waiting to make eq changes at his end.

Oh we are now ready to start the song well let me start deselecting the reverse to get back to the vocal in the mains and the effects I need for that song.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD
Click to expand...

What if.....
 

Attachments

  • whatifconsole.jpg
    whatifconsole.jpg
    113.7 KB · Views: 0
Re: New Midas M32 Console

So after working with the m-32 for a long weekend, I have decided to go with the Pro-1. The main reason is I am comfortable with the lay-out and the fact it has POP groups. The larger screen has the advantage for these old eye's as well. I already own the IO's from the other system and its 96k. The small gig's will be much easier for me as the pro-1 is only 47 pounds. I can also use it for Monitor World on the bigger rents. The Pro is a much faster get to where you need to be and back to where you were as posted above.
I wish you all great success with the M-32's that have been purchased, I'm just not happy with the layout or the slow layers.
I will be around this forum page as i have made many friends here so keep up the chat, as will I.
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Jay Barracato said:
Its not just the possibility of getting lost. It is the number of steps to get to the control you need. I am rolling along during a show with the left faders on the second bank so the lead vocal is under my fingers and the effects sends on the third bank of the right faders preparing for the next song. The acoustic bass starts to take off in the monitor channel. The frequency that is taking off because it is building up under the tent over the stage has been noticeably missing in the foh system.

What steps do you have to go through to first pull down the bass in the monitor, second adjust the eq for just the monitor, and then bring the level back up?

Did I mention you are standing side stage where you cannot clearly hear either the monitors or the mains, and while there is an iPad provided with the board, because we were the last band of the day it is now being recharged and would be useless anyway because the band attracted 10 times more people to that stage than it is seen all day and they are packed elbow to asshole and there is no way to step away from the board to hear the speakers.

Welcome to the walk up gig at a street fair provided by the company with a nice new stack of x32s

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD
Click to expand...

Your problem is not the X32... It's doing mons from FOH on a one off.

If you can get around on a Venue's workflow then you should be able to manage on an X32 just fine.
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

On a venue I can look at and past the computer screen towards the band.

It may be that the tilted screen on the m32 helps in that regard.

By the way, my doing monitors and foh is situation normal, and if the rig is right, I can do them better and faster talking with the band from foh than most techs that have never seen them before could from monitor world.

No my problem IS with the workflow and ergonomics of the x32. JR had it right. It is a new reality that I will have to deal with and I will collect my paycheck doing it but that doesn't mean I have to like it.

(Funny how the x32 apologists keep insisting that I can't do it which is very different from not liking doing it. I wonder how many of them see as many different brands and models of boards as I do in a typical year.)

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Jay Barracato said:
(Funny how the x32 apologists keep insisting that I can't do it which is very different from not liking doing it. I wonder how many of them see as many different brands and models of boards as I do in a typical year.)
Click to expand...
I don't know if I'm an apologist or not, but I was merley trying to help and give you a better workflow to work with using the parameters you wrote early on since I'm more familiar with the x32 than you are at the moment.

And I hope that someone else does the same for me one day when I'm struggling with some other less familiar mixer. Apologist or not...

Btw, I'm ambidexter so I don't really care of left/right operations either ;-)
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Scott Bolt said:
Isn't the Pro 2 a much more expensive mixer than the M32?
Click to expand...
With a DL251 its about 4 times the price. The pro-1 is around 7K. I am very happy with My Pro-2. its just to big and heavy for the small gigs. That is why I am looking for something for the small's. M-32 is a very good desk however its laid out IMO backwards. I was also wanting it to come out 96K so i could pair it up with the Pro-? to use as a monitor desk. Therefore i feel it best not to compromise and just do things right the first time.
but i am also waiting on Tim & Sam's take on the M-32 before I do it.
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Mike Devore said:
With a DL251 its about 4 times the price. The pro-1 is around 7K. I am very happy with My Pro-2. its just to big and heavy for the small gigs. That is why I am looking for something for the small's. M-32 is a very good desk however its laid out IMO backwards. I was also wanting it to come out 96K so i could pair it up with the Pro-? to use as a monitor desk. Therefore i feel it best not to compromise and just do things right the first time.
but i am also waiting on Tim & Sam's take on the M-32 before I do it.
Click to expand...
Thanks Mike,

For what it is worth, in a live environment, it seems hard to imagine any sonic difference between 48Khz and 96Khz since even 48Khz can produce artifact free 24Khz signal .... which is well beyond human hearing range (and an even farther way beyond my current hearing ;) ).

I would agree that in a pro environment, workflow is paramount.

Also, while the A/D and D/A converters on the M32 are easily capable of sampling at 192Khz (needed for 96Khz processing), I am not certain that the existing X32 SHARC processors can handle this at full load. My thought was that Music Group might be able to do an upgrade from their SHARC 3 TO SHARC 4 if they socketed the DSP chips. From what I have been able to read, the two families are code compatible, but the 4 has significantly more processing capabilities.

I would be very interested if someone could take a look under the hood and snap some pictures ;)
 
Top Bottom