New Midas M32 Console

Re: New Midas M32 Console

Caleb Dick said:
The difference between M and Pro, and whether it's worth the money difference, isn't a sound quality debate.
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I absolutely agree with you Caleb, actually M Matrixes look almost useless since I can't send input there, I bought x32 Rack to try it before to make a decision. All how I can use it - Send there mains to have one more insert for GEQ, when main insert used for Exciter. Actually I use 6 x stereo in ears, so all 12 busses are used for it, rest 4 busses for FX return, so no groups. And no possibility to have 2-3 good mixes for recording, video and stage... Only a good thing that I can record multitrack without any additional devices and then mix it and use for a video and web.

This all much better can be solved on PRO1, since there much more busses and any channel can be sent to Matrix...

Regarding layout - for me M/X simpler to use, since I worked with iLive and GLD. And I think that X/M iPad remote is a best one – I checked all remotes for all models, so this one is really very good.

So personally for me these 2 factors - great remote and built-in multitrack are very important. Layout - I am OK with X/M one. Sound - you told that it looks good :) So only a thing for me to choose is : routing... Excellent one on PRO vs castrated one on M.

Or, maybe, finally buy GLD :)
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Bormo Glot said:
I absolutely agree with you Caleb, actually M Matrixes look almost useless since I can't send input there, I bought x32 Rack to try it before to make a decision. All how I can use it - Send there mains to have one more insert for GEQ, when main insert used for Exciter. Actually I use 6 x stereo in ears, so all 12 busses are used for it, rest 4 busses for FX return, so no groups. And no possibility to have 2-3 good mixes for recording, video and stage... Only a good thing that I can record multitrack without any additional devices and then mix it and use for a video and web.

This all much better can be solved on PRO1, since there much more busses and any channel can be sent to Matrix...

Regarding layout - for me M/X simpler to use, since I worked with iLive and GLD. And I think that X/M iPad remote is a best one – I checked all remotes for all models, so this one is really very good.

So personally for me these 2 factors - great remote and built-in multitrack are very important. Layout - I am OK with X/M one. Sound - you told that it looks good :) So only a thing for me to choose is : routing... Excellent one on PRO vs castrated one on M.

Or, maybe, finally buy GLD :)
Click to expand...

Music Group needs to keep feature differences or there will be no need for the lower end of the Pro series.

The X/M series are below your needs and I'm a bit surprised that you were not able to determine this from the X32Edit software before making a purchase. I don't think you'll have a problem selling your X32R, though, and applying those funds to either a Pro2C or GLD.
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Tim McCulloch said:
I'm a bit surprised that you were not able to determine this from the X32Edit software
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Yep, I got it before buying, but this $1000 is not a big deal, and finally I have a great 6U case with X32R, Alesis Headphones amp, and power stabilizer which is а great monitor system, since everybody on stage can use an iOS/Android device for tuning monitors. In addition it is a great replacement for my DL1608 for small gigs. So I won't sell the X32R, since at least I like it :)


Finally, on the "menu" is:


1. M32 - great sound, great quality (I saw pictures inside), limited routing, excellent remote control, recording directly from the Board


2. PRO1 - great sound, great quality, great (but still not excellent) routing, not a bad remote control (but limited), actually no recording without huge investment


3. PRO2C - ...., great routing, same as before, and only 8 local inputs


4. GLD - same like a last one above.


Objective:
##2 and 3 have 96K, which looks like a nice to have feature
#4 has flexible busses, which I very like
Subjective:
I like Midas sound :)


Finally:


Looks like I can get a great system using M32+X32R on monitors+dl251, or couple dl16th
It will cost me $9K.


Same on PRO1 - $14K (including recording)
Same on PRO2C - $20K
Same on GLD80 - $15K (including Dante card) but I can't connect X32R by CAT6 in this case.


A Question - can I survive castrated routing for $5K?
An Answer - Yes I can.....
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Bormo Glot said:
Yep, I got it before buying, but this $1000 is not a big deal, and finally I have a great 6U case with X32R, Alesis Headphones amp, and power stabilizer which is а great monitor system, since everybody on stage can use an iOS/Android device for tuning monitors. In addition it is a great replacement for my DL1608 for small gigs. So I won't sell the X32R, since at least I like it :)
Click to expand...

If you need more routing than the X32 can handle, and you already have a Rack, you can buy the console (M32 or X32) just like you suggested and send everything down the AES50 and do some of the stuff on the Rack, monitoring for instance, but anything else really, so your routing won't be castrated at all - it will exceed the Pro1 capabilities. The possibilities are endless because extra processing is so cheap. Need even more? Get a Core.

PS. I won't even admit that not being able to control all the routing available straight from the surface, but needing an iPad, is a drawback compared to Pro1. The Pro1 is dangerously close to the Mac Wheel , everything is just a few hundred clicks away.
 
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Re: New Midas M32 Console

Some news from inside out :)

CS4398 120 dB, 192 kHz Multi-Bit DAC with Volume Control (pdf attached)

XC95288 In-System Programmable CPLD

These Screwdriver Knights told that difference between X and M much more inspired than was expected...
 

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Re: New Midas M32 Console

Two more shots to compare
 

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Re: New Midas M32 Console

So apart from the "promised" 96k maybe the firmware of the x and M 32 & associated features will diverge in the future!
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Bormo Glot said:
Some news from inside out :)

CS4398 120 dB, 192 kHz Multi-Bit DAC with Volume Control (pdf attached)

XC95288 In-System Programmable CPLD

These Screwdriver Knights told that difference between X and M much more inspired than was expected...
Click to expand...

I couldn't make out the X32 chips; however, it looked like most of the components were the same, but in a slightly different layout with respect to position.

The X32 uses a Cirus Logic A/D and D/A from what I have read. I haven't cracked mine open to verify.

I don't know it for a fact, but I would speculate that the CPLD (XC95288) is being used for implementation of the AES50 protocol considering that it is mentioned as part of the S16 literature and the chips proximity to the D/A chip.

The other possibility is that the CPLD is being used as a digital processor to the output circuit. This idea really doesn't sit well with me as an engineer and I can't see why anyone would put such a design in place considering the capabilities within the SHARC processor they are using (which is a much better way to do any DSP).

I could be wrong of course.
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

We know that the input boards are totally different, we didn't know for sure that it was a different AD, which is now confirmed and makes total sense since Midas claimed 6dB better S/N-ratio.
The first two pictures are a bit harder to make out the significance of, which board are they from? I can certainly see a new chip being put in place to handle the communication to and from I/O boards, because that is quite possibly where the bottleneck is in terms of higher sample rates and the extra chip might be what is needed to make the I/O boards operate at all sample-rates (probably not stopping at 96KHz). But that is just pure speculation.
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Per Søvik said:
We know that the input boards are totally different, we didn't know for sure that it was a different AD, which is now confirmed and makes total sense since Midas claimed 6dB better S/N-ratio.
The first two pictures are a bit harder to make out the significance of, which board are they from? I can certainly see a new chip being put in place to handle the communication to and from I/O boards, because that is quite possibly where the bottleneck is in terms of higher sample rates and the extra chip might be what is needed to make the I/O boards operate at all sample-rates (probably not stopping at 96KHz). But that is just pure speculation.
Click to expand...
I did a quick breakdown of the x32 a/d-card a while back and I'm pretty sure that four i2s/tdm streams are being output from each board and feed the fpga directly. The mcu is only there to control the analog preamps.
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

"In much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow"
(C) Solomon


I finally bogged and puzzled with all that jazz.....


I learned PRO1 and PRO2 manuals, and their routing (especially PRO2) is ideal.


Help me, folks, let's pretend that no PRO series and we have M32 + X32R only. Here is a task - will it work?




Funky band, 8xDrums, Bass, EGtr, 2x2Keys, 4 horns, 4 vocals.


So total 24 inputs, since I use 2 mikes per gtr.


Now, output. 2 groups - Drums; 2 groups bass+gtr; 2 groups Vocals; 2 groups kb; 2 groups horns. I have to use groups since I have to support separate video mix.
=====
Total 10 busses + 4 FX returns, total 14 used.


Matrix 1+2 - Mix for video
Matrix 3+4 - Main output, since I use Exciter on LR and GEQ on Matrix;
Matrix 5 - Subs.
==============


Balance - 2 busses and 1 matrix left. So 3 mono monitors, when I need at least 6.


If I can send all 24 inputs into X32R - I'll have 8+6 mix outputs. Even 8+6+2, if I use Monitor outputs.


Will it work? Can I connect both 32's to same dl, or I need connect DL and X to M? Will 2 sockets on M be enough to do it?


Thank you folks in advance...
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Bormo Glot said:
"In much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow"
(C) Solomon


2 groups - Drums; 2 groups bass+gtr; 2 groups Vocals; 2 groups kb; 2 groups horns. I have to use groups since I have to support separate video mix.
=====
Total 10 busses + 4 FX returns, total 14 used.
Click to expand...
Do you use panning on vocals and horns?
Otherwise a mono group would do it, total 8 subgroups ( buses ) and 4 FX sends, leaves you 4 prefader sends to work with

Matrix 1+2 - Mix for video
Matrix 3+4 - Main output, since I use Exciter on LR and GEQ on Matrix;
Matrix 5 - Subs.
==============
Click to expand...
For mixing Video feed at the same time, using subs on aux or groups or matrix adds another level of complication IMO

Balance - 2 busses and 1 matrix left. So 3 mono monitors, when I need at least 6.
Click to expand...
2 sends as conventional prefader sends and one mix over subgroups, I would try to avoid that

Will it work? Can I connect both 32's to same dl, or I need connect DL and X to M? Will 2 sockets on M be enough to do it?
Click to expand...
One way to do it:
DL16s/251 connected to X32R, AES50 split to M32, gains on X32R controled by M32, monitor mix is done completely in the Rack, which also means someone has to do it ( set channel EQs, comps, reverbs... )
Another way:
Send the groups from M32 back to the Rack together with important channels and look into the options of the P16 bus and P16-M, if some of the musicians would accept wired IEMs


With careful analysis of everyone needs it may work
For further questions on the system I recommend the Behringer forum :)~:-)~:smile: , super nice and knowledgeable guys there

Uwe
 
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Re: New Midas M32 Console

Thank you Folks!

Just one more stupid question -

When using DL251 for in/out it will be same sound with both M and X? Am I correct?
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Bormo Glot said:
Thank you Folks!

Just one more stupid question -

When using DL251 for in/out it will be same sound with both M and X? Am I correct?
Click to expand...

Should be, the processing is the same, so it doesn't matter which one you use for what or in what order they are connected.
 
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