New QSC amp ????
- Thread starter Mike Caldwell
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Re: New QSC amp ????
SOS is what we call the small speakers that can be placed on stands, also known as "sticks" in industry lingo. Thus the acronym, S.O.S., for "Speakers On Sticks". The product John is referring to is a recent offering from Peavey that incorporates a ribbon high frequency device and also offers a built in system processor. It is a self powered model.
SOS is what we call the small speakers that can be placed on stands, also known as "sticks" in industry lingo. Thus the acronym, S.O.S., for "Speakers On Sticks". The product John is referring to is a recent offering from Peavey that incorporates a ribbon high frequency device and also offers a built in system processor. It is a self powered model.
Re: New QSC amp ????
OK gotcha... brain fart on the SOS but google didn't know it either. :-(
Even the old powered impulse 12" and 15" didn't suck... but I suspect using the ribbon driver they developed for the Versaray, or some variant of that, with the new "game changer" class D amp with DSP built in, probably kicks some ass.
If they listened to even one of my last 20 years of sermons, it will be hard to kill with smart built in protection too.
I never heard that HF driver but I recall running into Jon (the engineer) one night while doing my weekly grocery shopping, a couple years back. He was excited and proud of the driver performance, and Jon was no slouch sound quality wise, kind of the resident golden ears at PV.
If he did the 12D, it is probably respectable.
JR
PS: I preferred the old Impulse 15" to the 12" but then was then and now and now. I'd need to check out the new 12D
OK gotcha... brain fart on the SOS but google didn't know it either. :-(
Even the old powered impulse 12" and 15" didn't suck... but I suspect using the ribbon driver they developed for the Versaray, or some variant of that, with the new "game changer" class D amp with DSP built in, probably kicks some ass.
If they listened to even one of my last 20 years of sermons, it will be hard to kill with smart built in protection too.
I never heard that HF driver but I recall running into Jon (the engineer) one night while doing my weekly grocery shopping, a couple years back. He was excited and proud of the driver performance, and Jon was no slouch sound quality wise, kind of the resident golden ears at PV.
If he did the 12D, it is probably respectable.
JR
PS: I preferred the old Impulse 15" to the 12" but then was then and now and now. I'd need to check out the new 12D
Re: New QSC amp ????
Yes it does. They sound good. We had a few of the early production models that a dj promptly blew while warming up before the event. Needless to say, the K12's had to be quickly dispatched to save the day for the rental. When A/B ing the QSC K12 vs the Peavey 12D, and the Peavey was louder and sounded better. It was had a smoother sound near clip. Unfortunately, the protection on the cabinet was not on par with the QSC. I'm not sure if this was fixed. We had them about 2 years ago so who knows now. We ended up returning them since they didn't pass our moron dj test.
Yes it does. They sound good. We had a few of the early production models that a dj promptly blew while warming up before the event. Needless to say, the K12's had to be quickly dispatched to save the day for the rental. When A/B ing the QSC K12 vs the Peavey 12D, and the Peavey was louder and sounded better. It was had a smoother sound near clip. Unfortunately, the protection on the cabinet was not on par with the QSC. I'm not sure if this was fixed. We had them about 2 years ago so who knows now. We ended up returning them since they didn't pass our moron dj test.
Re: New QSC amp ????
Sounds like they forgot my sermon... making products customer proof is 101....
JR
Sounds like they forgot my sermon... making products customer proof is 101....
JR
Re: New QSC amp ????
I can think of two manufacturers of processor controlled systems of the 1980s and 90s that were regularly slammed as not "really able to RAWK" because those processors did their job and prevented the morons from blowing the drivers up.
Any sales lost to the more aggressive fader jockeys or the sound providers they favored were more than made up for by what the manufacturers saved in warranty repair costs.
And some of those now nearly 30 year old systems are still out there making money for the people who bought them.
I can think of two manufacturers of processor controlled systems of the 1980s and 90s that were regularly slammed as not "really able to RAWK" because those processors did their job and prevented the morons from blowing the drivers up.
Any sales lost to the more aggressive fader jockeys or the sound providers they favored were more than made up for by what the manufacturers saved in warranty repair costs.
And some of those now nearly 30 year old systems are still out there making money for the people who bought them.
Re: New QSC amp ????
Interesting how you can combine all 4 channels into on speaker to add more power. I think the PLD4.5 could be a potential candiate to replace my IT4000, by running channels A+B & C+D. I think I would need a rack of at least 3 amps to power my SRX rig.
However, to me it looks like a PLX replacement to compete with the XTi's
- USB only connection
- 1250w at 4 ohms per channel or 2250w at 4 ohms bridged
- IEC (15 amp) plug
I wonder if QSC has any plans for bring back the PL9.0 power levels?
Interesting how you can combine all 4 channels into on speaker to add more power. I think the PLD4.5 could be a potential candiate to replace my IT4000, by running channels A+B & C+D. I think I would need a rack of at least 3 amps to power my SRX rig.
However, to me it looks like a PLX replacement to compete with the XTi's
- USB only connection
- 1250w at 4 ohms per channel or 2250w at 4 ohms bridged
- IEC (15 amp) plug
I wonder if QSC has any plans for bring back the PL9.0 power levels?
Re: New QSC amp ????
My biggest thing that I saw was the ability to combine amp channels to increase power without the "bridging effect". If I had KF650/KF850 type speaker, I could use 1 amp per pair of boxes by putting it in 3 channel mode and A+B on the Lows, C on the Mid & D on the Horns.
If I was to power my rig in Bi-Amp with these amps, I would need 4 (2 per each side):
SRX722: LF with A+B+C and Horns on D
SRX728: I would need to use at least 3 channels
If I built some sort of crazy patch bay I could do it on 3 amps:
Amp 1: A+B & C+D to power the 12s
Amp 2 & 3: A+B+C to power the 18s, D to power the Horns
My biggest thing that I saw was the ability to combine amp channels to increase power without the "bridging effect". If I had KF650/KF850 type speaker, I could use 1 amp per pair of boxes by putting it in 3 channel mode and A+B on the Lows, C on the Mid & D on the Horns.
If I was to power my rig in Bi-Amp with these amps, I would need 4 (2 per each side):
SRX722: LF with A+B+C and Horns on D
SRX728: I would need to use at least 3 channels
If I built some sort of crazy patch bay I could do it on 3 amps:
Amp 1: A+B & C+D to power the 12s
Amp 2 & 3: A+B+C to power the 18s, D to power the Horns
Attachments
Re: New QSC amp ????
I haven’t seen pricing, but without Network capabilities I wouldn't pay anything above $1500 on the most powerful amp ($900 and $1200 on the others)
Now if they were to add the network feature with a strong power supply, I could see prices around the $2500, $3000 & $3500 marks. If they had the power like the Crown IT4x3500HD and PLM10000Q, I could see the amps priced a little higher.
I haven’t seen pricing, but without Network capabilities I wouldn't pay anything above $1500 on the most powerful amp ($900 and $1200 on the others)
Now if they were to add the network feature with a strong power supply, I could see prices around the $2500, $3000 & $3500 marks. If they had the power like the Crown IT4x3500HD and PLM10000Q, I could see the amps priced a little higher.
Re: New QSC amp ????
When I stopped by their Infocomm booth today here's the "retail" pricing I got on the CX (install) side of this line:
CXD4.2 $1900
CXD4.3 $2500
CXD4.5 $3100
I didn't ask about the PLD prices.
Philip
When I stopped by their Infocomm booth today here's the "retail" pricing I got on the CX (install) side of this line:
CXD4.2 $1900
CXD4.3 $2500
CXD4.5 $3100
I didn't ask about the PLD prices.
Philip
Re: New QSC amp ????
Retail price on the PLX 3602 is currently $1749, with MAP prices about $1400. Roughly looking at the power, that equates to the 4.3. That puts the retail of the amp $750 higher. Yes, you get 4 channels, and a built in DSP, but that price premium seems a little high.
I also find it interesting that the rated power output is the same at 4 ohms as 8 ohms, and then goes DOWN at 2 ohms. Definitely different than the rest!
Retail price on the PLX 3602 is currently $1749, with MAP prices about $1400. Roughly looking at the power, that equates to the 4.3. That puts the retail of the amp $750 higher. Yes, you get 4 channels, and a built in DSP, but that price premium seems a little high.
I also find it interesting that the rated power output is the same at 4 ohms as 8 ohms, and then goes DOWN at 2 ohms. Definitely different than the rest!
Re: New QSC amp ????
If the amp and processing are up to par this is a really useful tool. The Lab Gruppen PLM amps are fantastic, but they're also pricey, only offer two input channels, and the presets aren't as customizable. For example, on if I recall a preset on Lab's Lake Processing, it recalls a setting for the entire amplifier, where it looks like you can assign each channel freely on these amps.
That being said, the Labs have Mesa EQs and sound great, come with NL8 outputs(it's great to be able to run 4 amp channels like a mult for distributed systems without any hardware but a breakout box), and if you know how to network them and run the software they're amazingly flexible.
If the amp and processing are up to par this is a really useful tool. The Lab Gruppen PLM amps are fantastic, but they're also pricey, only offer two input channels, and the presets aren't as customizable. For example, on if I recall a preset on Lab's Lake Processing, it recalls a setting for the entire amplifier, where it looks like you can assign each channel freely on these amps.
That being said, the Labs have Mesa EQs and sound great, come with NL8 outputs(it's great to be able to run 4 amp channels like a mult for distributed systems without any hardware but a breakout box), and if you know how to network them and run the software they're amazingly flexible.
Re: New QSC amp ????
Power that drops off at 2 ohms sounds like a current limited design. We've seen this before and perhaps characteristic of a canned chip set design. Not really a problem when understood up front for packaging systems.
JR
Power that drops off at 2 ohms sounds like a current limited design. We've seen this before and perhaps characteristic of a canned chip set design. Not really a problem when understood up front for packaging systems.
JR
Re: New QSC amp ????
Time to play guru John. My bench tech level training on power amp design and theory tells me that current limited design means fewer output devices of inadequate dissipation perhaps coupled with insufficient power supply capacity. How does an off the shelf chip set, which I think of as voltage gain, front end components, impact low current output capacity? Inquiring minds ( and minimal formal training ) want to know.
Time to play guru John. My bench tech level training on power amp design and theory tells me that current limited design means fewer output devices of inadequate dissipation perhaps coupled with insufficient power supply capacity. How does an off the shelf chip set, which I think of as voltage gain, front end components, impact low current output capacity? Inquiring minds ( and minimal formal training ) want to know.
Re: New QSC amp ????
In fact peak or max current has been a design limitation for class D power amps since the early days. Class D involves saturated switch power devices that output a PWM or duty cycle modulated square wave. In slower analog power amps it is common to parallel multiple power devices to get more current. For high speed switching applications trying to parallel devices and get them to switch at exactly the same time is not so easy.
A lot of the increases in class D power output have been linked to device technology advances (higher voltage higher current individual devices). I am still making wild assed guesses about these new amps, but suspect they use an IC chipset driving outboard power devices, but still simple device pairs per output. I have talked to people smarter than me about this and they say it is possible to parallel switching devices, but i have not seen this done in mass market designs so believe what you want.
Getting back to the question a basic class D power amp will be power limited by power supply voltage, and power supply current, "and" device voltage/current limits. I haven't been in the trenches for a while, in the early days the class D amps were challenged by switching device voltage and current (early Peavey class D amps only delivered modest power by today's standards and did not support 2 ohm operation limited by the SOTA for switching devices back then).
Devices keep getting better but I doubt large audio amps are a big enough market to justify huge component development investment just for them. Perhaps a chip set for all power levels, but not just for high power. For the record I have no idea what the current SOTA is for these guys. or what industry is really driving the switching device development (IMO not audio, maybe solar power or electric cars? While electric cars are low volume too...
.
JR
In fact peak or max current has been a design limitation for class D power amps since the early days. Class D involves saturated switch power devices that output a PWM or duty cycle modulated square wave. In slower analog power amps it is common to parallel multiple power devices to get more current. For high speed switching applications trying to parallel devices and get them to switch at exactly the same time is not so easy.
A lot of the increases in class D power output have been linked to device technology advances (higher voltage higher current individual devices). I am still making wild assed guesses about these new amps, but suspect they use an IC chipset driving outboard power devices, but still simple device pairs per output. I have talked to people smarter than me about this and they say it is possible to parallel switching devices, but i have not seen this done in mass market designs so believe what you want.
Getting back to the question a basic class D power amp will be power limited by power supply voltage, and power supply current, "and" device voltage/current limits. I haven't been in the trenches for a while, in the early days the class D amps were challenged by switching device voltage and current (early Peavey class D amps only delivered modest power by today's standards and did not support 2 ohm operation limited by the SOTA for switching devices back then).
Devices keep getting better but I doubt large audio amps are a big enough market to justify huge component development investment just for them. Perhaps a chip set for all power levels, but not just for high power. For the record I have no idea what the current SOTA is for these guys. or what industry is really driving the switching device development (IMO not audio, maybe solar power or electric cars? While electric cars are low volume too...
.JR