Speaker on Stick build with large budget

[drew gandy]

Re: Speaker on Stick build with large budget

I never noticed that the Q7 mentions a 1.3" compression driver. This is a rather odd size, no? Is it a custom made component or who is the vendor?

 

[Peter van Gils]

Re: Speaker on Stick build with large budget

Maybe not so loud, but very nice sounding (and it will empty your wallet):
Stage Accompany PR34 top + AB18 sub.
The top uses a ribbon driver. I'm using the older, but similar, C24S with double 15" subs.

 

[andrew gissing]

Re: Speaker on Stick build with large budget

I see this as an advantage. With most speakers on stick you can aim horizontally but not vertically. It's not really a U bracket; more like an L; but... importantly you can then choose your vertical angle.

I've had outdoor gigs where ground slopes up from the stage so can angle the speaker up; other gigs where I put the speaker high and angle down.

Much better options than a straight pole mount.

Andrew

 

[Scott Ciungan]

Re: Speaker on Stick build with large budget

Adamson Point Series or Point Concentric. These things sound incredible. And they have a subwoofer line to complement all of their top boxes.

 

[Kevin Hayes]

Re: Speaker on Stick build with large budget

The Adamson stuff is great, and REALLY powerful. I was shocked at how much usable output I could get out of the Point 8.

The only box in that line that I won't recommend is the Point 115 subwoofer. I'm pretty sure it's meant as a companion to the Point 8 and has a passive crossover built in so that you can loop through it to the top. While a great concept, it really doesn't do much past minor LFE. The Point 215 sub, however, is a beast.

 

[Jack Arnott]

Re: Speaker on Stick build with large budget

I see this as an advantage. With most speakers on stick you can aim horizontally but not vertically. It's not really a U bracket; more like an L; but... importantly you can then choose your vertical angle.
I've had outdoor gigs where ground slopes up from the stage so can angle the speaker up; other gigs where I put the speaker high and angle down.
Much better options than a straight pole mount.

Andrew

Another advantage is stability. When the load is hanging, if the unit is bumped, the load will stay in the same place, then swing back and forth, and somewhat self correct.
With a rigid pole, the load immediately goes to the extreme of the bump.

Jack - that configuration makes sense to me - how does it sound?? Needless to say, you and Jeff Permanian have been talking to each other over the last couple years uh?

Regards,
Neale

Jeff is one of my favorite customers.

I really like the sound of the mid-range diaphragm. And having point source from 3 or 400hz up is great.
Of course there is a disconnect at the crossover point, from lows on the ground to mids in the air, but to me the advantages far outweigh that.

Business guy answer as opposed to a sound guy answer. Sound quality & cost take a back seat to scalability and efficiency . I don't buy anything that I may need more of if I can't get more of them in less than an hours drive. Unless you almost NEVER cross rent speakers for larger work ( and anyone who doesn't is doing this as a hobby rather than a business ) I would suggest finding out what at least two other vendors nearby have lots of and buy some of those.

I would quibble with you on this Riley. I think the definition of "speaker on a stick" is solo.
So scalability is not needed.

Larger work would be a scaleable system.

 

[David Morison]

Re: Speaker on Stick build with large budget

I would quibble with you on this Riley. I think the definition of "speaker on a stick" is solo.
So scalability is not needed.

On the other hand, having half a dozen SoS rigs out would be a bread and butter weekend for many small-medium companies, and you wouldn't want to turn down one last gig due to running out of stock if at all possible, so cross-renting can still be important.
Just a thought,
David.

 

[Rob Timmerman]

Re: Speaker on Stick build with large budget

On the other hand, having half a dozen SoS rigs out would be a bread and butter weekend for many small-medium companies, and you wouldn't want to turn down one last gig due to running out of stock if at all possible, so cross-renting can still be important.
Just a thought,
David.

Yep. Plus, there are quite a few gigs where multiple SoS rigs get deployed simultaneously in the same room as delays

 

[Jack Arnott]

Re: Speaker on Stick build with large budget

On the other hand, having half a dozen SoS rigs out would be a bread and butter weekend for many small-medium companies, and you wouldn't want to turn down one last gig due to running out of stock if at all possible, so cross-renting can still be important.
Just a thought,
David.

If I have 6 SOS systems in six rooms, who cares if they are all the same system?
In fact, when this has happened to me, the systems have had much different needs from room to room.
So simply cross renting a system that fits the bill is what is important.
It's much more important, and harder, to find 6 fader jockeys who are equally competent.

In fact, I would argue that being only able or willing to provide one type of SOS system greatly reduces your flexibility.
To me agility is, in this case, more important than cookie cutter.

 

[Matt Vivlamore]

Re: Speaker on Stick build with large budget

The loudest thing I've ever heard that could be pole mounted was the Fulcrum DX1295. They have a portable version now - FA22ac - with Powersoft power. Expensive, but worth every penny. Insanely loud, and sounds amazing.

I have found my new tops. This past weekend I was able Demo/Rent a pair of Fulcrum FA22ac and put them through pretty large gig. I have nothing but good things to say about the tops.

I have attached some pictures from the event. It was in a really old room measured around 225’ in length, 70’ wide with very tall ceilings and on the 2nd floor (all wood structure). There was around 400-500 people in attendance for the event. This event was in a much larger room than we are typical in (typical rooms are: 75-110’ deep and 40-80’ wide with 150-300 guest).

At one point in time, I had my IT8000 hitting around 6dB of gain reduction, while driving 4 SRX718s. On my rig, the limiters on the IT4000 with engage before the IT8000 does, IT4000 is powering SRX722. I did not see any Limit lights on the FA22ac’s lighting up.

What I like about these tops is that they are really crystal clear and sound clean all night long. The “throw” was very good; you could understand the presenter at the back of the room and not kill the front rows. I ran the LS9’s outboard EQ’s flat and tweak the vocals and instruments EQ’s to get everything to sit perfectly in the mix. Also the best part (I think) is that no one complained about it being too loud.

I didn’t have enough time to set-up the Armonia software to see what was going on inside the amp. I did run the tops on Preset #2 (With Subwoofer).

 

[Per Søvik]

Re: Speaker on Stick build with large budget

The loudest thing I've ever heard that could be pole mounted was the Fulcrum DX1295. They have a portable version now - FA22ac - with Powersoft power. Expensive, but worth every penny. Insanely loud, and sounds amazing.

What kind of price are we talking about roughly?

Has anyone got experience with these and also with the Q7 (not necessarily A-B) so we can get an opinion about how they compare?

 

[Timo Ulkuniemi]

Re: Speaker on Stick build with large budget

Hello

Just stumbled across this conversation - I thought I share pictures of my setup - subs are selfmade copies of D&B Q-sub - top cabinets are JBL EVO - heavily modified and passive since one amp burnt leaving charcoal where pc-board used to be... they have dual 13 + horn and are about 20kg a piece - easy enough to get on/off pole alone.

As you can see, there is tiltable socket for pole - so I can aim it to audience - original radiation angle is 110x110 if I remember correctly. I also switched horn from middle to top because too often these things are staying too low, when in shallow rooms, so I rather have horn on top. Amplification is two iNuke 6000 DSP-version for tops and something else for subs - whatever I have at moment...

First picture is without grille in my garden - three last pictures are in a old restaurant in Helsinki ( there is a tree groving inside and throught ceiling... ) last year end of May at school is out party.

All speakers need fresh paint - I know !

Board is X32 and is located behind the stage - in one of the pictures my Airport Express UFO can be seen hovering above guitar amp.


Place was packed - some 400 people and we never run out of power - all control with iPad mini - walking around - sitting at some table - changing places.

First time in my life I had chance to mix "Apache" - performed by The Rapiers - what a performance....

 

[Jason Raboin]

Re: Speaker on Stick build with large budget

What kind of price are we talking about roughly?

Has anyone got experience with these and also with the Q7 (not necessarily A-B) so we can get an opinion about how they compare?

List is $6250. Fulcrum doesn't do MAP pricing, so you would have to contact a dealer (I am a dealer) for a price.

I've used both the FA22AC and the Q7. I can't think of a reason to go with the Q7 except for the brand recognition.

 

[Peter Morris]

Re: Speaker on Stick build with large budget

After working a fairly large gig last weekend (rig consisted of Nexo GeoS8, CD12 & PS10 & PS15 powered with the NX4x4 amps), I got the ideal of building a smaller yet powerful Speaker on a Stick rig. Yes I know of the saying that you can only pick two: small/light weight, louder/Sound Quality, OR cheaper/cost effective. But I am not too worried about cost.

I am working mainly corporate parties and weddings. The average crowd size that I supply the sound for is 200-400 people, with the speakers focused on the dance floor. Any crowd over 600, the Client is going to hire in Production (mainly racks & stack) but if not, the Agency/Band gives me a larger budget to work with on these shows so that I can rent gear as needed.

The Ballrooms we are in are decent size space with 3500-7500 Sq Ft, with the rooms ranging from the 65’x40’ up to 110’x60’.

The band is a 6 to 10 pieces playing everything from Jazz to Current Top 40.

The Other Agency band is running the Nexo PS15 & LS1200 and Analog controller with Camco & Gruppen power amps.


So what would your ideal/killer Speaker On Stick rig be to cover these situations?

In addition to those listed so far …

EAW KF394 - small & loud with excellent sound qualitywhen “focused” http://eaw.com/portfolio_page/kf394/
… and a slightly different approach 3 x dB TechnologiesT8 aside on a stick – very scalable rig especially combined with T12s http://www.dbtechnologies.com/EN/Products/dva/dva_t8_p1091.aspx
.... and the standard 15 + horn RCF TT5A http://www.rcf.it/en_US/products/touring-and-theatre/tt5-a

 

[Matt Vivlamore]

Re: Speaker on Stick build with large budget

In addition to those listed so far …

EAW KF394 - small & loud with excellent sound qualitywhen “focused” http://eaw.com/portfolio_page/kf394/
… and a slightly different approach 3 x dB TechnologiesT8 aside on a stick – very scalable rig especially combined with T12s http://www.dbtechnologies.com/EN/Products/dva/dva_t8_p1091.aspx
.... and the standard 15 + horn RCF TT5A http://www.rcf.it/en_US/products/touring-and-theatre/tt5-a

Peter, those are all good choice, but they didn't fit my "needs & wants" as they developed over time. I began to lean towards and narrow the decision to a “simple” “compact” “light-weight” and “self-powered rig (with PowerCon in/outs)”. I know it’s going to cost me.

For the longest time I have looked at the dB Tech T-series... but as a single person production on many of my shows I decided against it, for the fact that the tops can get tricky when setting them up (on the stand). I had no issues tossing the FA22ac up 5’ in the air of a stand.

When picked up the FA22ac, I was able to take a listen to the KF394 and TT5A tops in the store with some play back. But my intentions was to test drive the FA22ac.

 

[BJ James]

Re: Speaker on Stick build with large budget

That's the whole problem with these FA22ac: once you hear them, you have to have them.
Matt, next purchase should be a pair of Global ST132 stands to crank them up higher.

 

[Matt Vivlamore]

Re: Speaker on Stick build with large budget

That's the whole problem with these FA22ac: once you hear them, you have to have them.
Matt, next purchase should be a pair of Global ST132 stands to crank them up higher.

I agree with that... This about the most versatile box out there; stage monitor, for a small room I don't think you'll need subs, and then cover 500+ people.

I did bump the boxes up on the stands and had the bottom of the box around 5.5' in the air. The stands I have now are from Odyssey; its a light stand legs with a speaker pole.

 

[Dave Barnett]

Re: Speaker on Stick build with large budget

I agree with that... This about the most versatile box out there; stage monitor, for a small room I don't think you'll need subs, and then cover 500+ people.

I did bump the boxes up on the stands and had the bottom of the box around 5.5' in the air. The stands I have now are from Odyssey; its a light stand legs with a speaker pole.

Kind of pricey for a wedge isn't it?

 

[Rob Timmerman]

Re: Speaker on Stick build with large budget

Kind of pricey for a wedge isn't it?

It's not out of line for an A-list self-powered wedge.

 

[Peter Morris]

Re: Speaker on Stick build with large budget

Peter, those are all good choice, but they didn't fit my "needs & wants" as they developed over time. I began to lean towards and narrow the decision to a “simple” “compact” “light-weight” and “self-powered rig (with PowerCon in/outs)”. I know it’s going to cost me.

For the longest time I have looked at the dB Tech T-series... but as a single person production on many of my shows I decided against it, for the fact that the tops can get tricky when setting them up (on the stand). I had no issues tossing the FA22ac up 5’ in the air of a stand.

When picked up the FA22ac, I was able to take a listen to the KF394 and TT5A tops in the store with some play back. But my intentions was to test drive the FA22ac.

Hi Matt,

Firstly … I believe the FA22ac is an excellent choice – FWIW I’m a bit David Gunness / Fulcrum fan, but the FA22ac had already been mentioned so I left it off my list.

I don’t understand why the KF 394(NT) does not fit your criteria – the FA22ac is 90 x 45 degrees, 27kg 3-way design, the 394 is 90 x 45 degrees, 30kg 3-way design. The NT version is powered.

The FA22ac can be used as a wedge and the KF394 is a bit louder. For me the flexibility of the wedge application is important … so I would probably go with FA22ac.

I also threw in the DVA T8 as an alternative approach to look at the problem from a different perspective – FWIW I find I use my DVA T8’s & 12’s all the time … and I have a lot of other options. The DVAs are only 14 kg each, can be adapted to many situations and throw much better than out PS15’s, RCF TT22a or our own double 10 + horn (similar to Noesis 3TX but with an 18sound 1.4” compression driver). … and BTW although I have never heard the Noesis 3TX, it has some serous performance potential. … and if you have looked at dB Tech T series it’s also probably worth mentioning that the T8 is a much better box than the T4.

The advantage with the T8s is that it allows you to expand up to a reasonable size line array (with T12s) … which may or may not be something that is important to you. While I’m sure the FA22ac will sound a little better, I however suspect an array of T8s will probably fill the room better in many circumstances.

…anyway I would certainly put the Fulcrums on the top of my list … and also the V.U.E. stuff with the beryllium diaphragms may be worth a look .