Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A
- Thread starter Bennett Prescott
- Start date
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A
Funny you ask about computers, JR. That's my former business.
We purchase locally available parts and repair on the spot.
My auto shop gives me a loaner to drive.
My local electronics shop will rent me a replacement unit.
I can't think of anything else that I own and I count on that I can't get a replacement during repair.
If the unit were to fail completely, I'd use my small emergency mixer and purchase a new X32-Rack the next day. I'm not going to carry two on the road in case one breaks, I think the product is better than that.
I don't think I'm being unreasonable by any stretch... but apparently the tide is against me on this on.
Maybe I'll have to wait until there are rental units available in Minneapolis, I have three years.
It's a shame though. It's a small thing that makes house techs I show it to say, "Eh, same old Behringer" when I want them to say "Wow, really? Behringer!"
Funny you ask about computers, JR. That's my former business.
We purchase locally available parts and repair on the spot.
My auto shop gives me a loaner to drive.
My local electronics shop will rent me a replacement unit.
I can't think of anything else that I own and I count on that I can't get a replacement during repair.
If the unit were to fail completely, I'd use my small emergency mixer and purchase a new X32-Rack the next day. I'm not going to carry two on the road in case one breaks, I think the product is better than that.
I don't think I'm being unreasonable by any stretch... but apparently the tide is against me on this on.
Maybe I'll have to wait until there are rental units available in Minneapolis, I have three years.
It's a shame though. It's a small thing that makes house techs I show it to say, "Eh, same old Behringer" when I want them to say "Wow, really? Behringer!"
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A
I don't buy a second one now because we travel seven people in a Sprinter with the gear and merch in back. Truck pack is tight. If this one totally craps out I'll purchase a replacement the next day. The X32-R will soon be in every music store and replacements will be easy to get. If I buy it now I'm tying up money and truck space and, in all likelihood, it'll be in the garage instead of the van when I need it.
On other stuff, I remember Jim Berns Music. Odd cement block store down a funny little street. I haven't thought about that place in years. But that's way off subject, now isn't it... I'm amazed you remember the telephone number.
I don't buy a second one now because we travel seven people in a Sprinter with the gear and merch in back. Truck pack is tight. If this one totally craps out I'll purchase a replacement the next day. The X32-R will soon be in every music store and replacements will be easy to get. If I buy it now I'm tying up money and truck space and, in all likelihood, it'll be in the garage instead of the van when I need it.
On other stuff, I remember Jim Berns Music. Odd cement block store down a funny little street. I haven't thought about that place in years. But that's way off subject, now isn't it... I'm amazed you remember the telephone number.
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A
this isn't a picture i recognise...and I can't work out whether this is deliberately disingenuous or has been sent from somewhere in the mid 20th century.
firstly, the repair of pc's yourself isn't a fair comparison - the x32 is a retail unit used by all and sundry - never designed to be opened by end users.
my next door neighbour would never open up his pc - he would order it on line and return it to base if it didn't work or buy it at the electronics superstore and return it there for repair - often taking a month. never less than a week and all travel at his cost
NO garage gives a loan car/courtesy car to drive without it being reflected in the bill - if you buy a new car and service is included then so is the cost of overheads to cover that - YOU DO NOT GET SOMETHING FOR NOTHING. whether you see the cost on the bill or it's in the overhead, make no mistake the cost is there. when you bought the x32 you knew what you were getting, you knew loaners didn't come with the price - so why would you bring it up now?
local electronics stores loaning a replacement - queer, quaint and if you are getting that service terrific but it hasn't existed anywhere i am aware of since the 1970's.
when you went to the place you bought your x32 from they gave you a price and behringer published their warranty for those units. what about the other mixing consoles sold by that same distributor? are they offering loaners for other £2k mixing consoles? certainly i haven't seen that in any european distributor unless you step up to the pro level touring desks (midas etc) - just because this console will do most things a £12k console does, it doesn't mean you get that pro dealer support with it. why on earth would you expect that for the price?
If you are keen on the idea of starting a business adding value by offering a collect and loan service, i think some may be interested (though i suspect that's where the M32 may be heading with midas dealers offering extra support packages). for the sake of argument lets say to turn a profit doing that you would need to add 10%. that's £220 - over double the weekly hire rate. i suspect fellow posters would be split down the middle as to whether they would pay £2,420 instead of £2,200. and this is a pro-am forum - step down to the home users, small bands and the others that make up the 100,000 plus purchasers and i doubt they would want to pay the extra. and that's the point - it's the biggest selling console in history in part because of its feature set but it's really because of that feature set at the cost.
now locally i can rent for a week at less than £100, so buying a new console at this price i would take my chances and if i were recommending to a theatre or a tour i would recommend the M32 or take two x32's on tour. but i underline again you do not get something for nothing - it's all in the price - why would we be expecting anything different. frankly i'm baffled.
this isn't a picture i recognise...and I can't work out whether this is deliberately disingenuous or has been sent from somewhere in the mid 20th century.
firstly, the repair of pc's yourself isn't a fair comparison - the x32 is a retail unit used by all and sundry - never designed to be opened by end users.
my next door neighbour would never open up his pc - he would order it on line and return it to base if it didn't work or buy it at the electronics superstore and return it there for repair - often taking a month. never less than a week and all travel at his cost
NO garage gives a loan car/courtesy car to drive without it being reflected in the bill - if you buy a new car and service is included then so is the cost of overheads to cover that - YOU DO NOT GET SOMETHING FOR NOTHING. whether you see the cost on the bill or it's in the overhead, make no mistake the cost is there. when you bought the x32 you knew what you were getting, you knew loaners didn't come with the price - so why would you bring it up now?
local electronics stores loaning a replacement - queer, quaint and if you are getting that service terrific but it hasn't existed anywhere i am aware of since the 1970's.
when you went to the place you bought your x32 from they gave you a price and behringer published their warranty for those units. what about the other mixing consoles sold by that same distributor? are they offering loaners for other £2k mixing consoles? certainly i haven't seen that in any european distributor unless you step up to the pro level touring desks (midas etc) - just because this console will do most things a £12k console does, it doesn't mean you get that pro dealer support with it. why on earth would you expect that for the price?
If you are keen on the idea of starting a business adding value by offering a collect and loan service, i think some may be interested (though i suspect that's where the M32 may be heading with midas dealers offering extra support packages). for the sake of argument lets say to turn a profit doing that you would need to add 10%. that's £220 - over double the weekly hire rate. i suspect fellow posters would be split down the middle as to whether they would pay £2,420 instead of £2,200. and this is a pro-am forum - step down to the home users, small bands and the others that make up the 100,000 plus purchasers and i doubt they would want to pay the extra. and that's the point - it's the biggest selling console in history in part because of its feature set but it's really because of that feature set at the cost.
now locally i can rent for a week at less than £100, so buying a new console at this price i would take my chances and if i were recommending to a theatre or a tour i would recommend the M32 or take two x32's on tour. but i underline again you do not get something for nothing - it's all in the price - why would we be expecting anything different. frankly i'm baffled.
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A
How did the John Cleese put it? "... picked up the wrong end the stick and started beating around the bush with it" I believe is the phrase.
Just one sentence down from where you stopped quoting my post, I quote myself from an earlier post,
"As I've said before, I'd pay a reasonable rental and shipping but it seems unreasonable to require customers to purchase two mixers to have a spare in case one goes down"
There seems to be a consensus that premium level service should not be available for this equipment because the equipment itself is a very good deal to begin with. I don't understand that philosophy especially given the industry we're in. Many people here make at least part of their money by renting equipment. It's a profit center. I fail to understand why this manufacturer can't do the same. I think it would help them in the professional market.
Anyway, there is nothing disingenuous in my post. Your post, however, chose to abbreviate my post and ignore the context of the conversation.
When X32-R's are available for rental locally I will get one and send my unit in, simple as that.
And for the record...
The PC comment was a response to JR from earlier.
Perhaps in Penwortham the auto shops don't offer loaners, the ones I go to do.
I'm not after something for nothing, see above.
and one last thought on this subject....
As prices are reduced on hardware, premium support will become the profit center of the industry. That's how the auto industry in America works. That's the model the software industry has adopted. Even our gas delivery company offers home appliance maintenance service contracts. Premium customer service is the future, not some 70's through-back.
Howard, I'm afraid you came into the middle of a conversation with a chip on your shoulder.
How did the John Cleese put it? "... picked up the wrong end the stick and started beating around the bush with it" I believe is the phrase.
Just one sentence down from where you stopped quoting my post, I quote myself from an earlier post,
"As I've said before, I'd pay a reasonable rental and shipping but it seems unreasonable to require customers to purchase two mixers to have a spare in case one goes down"
There seems to be a consensus that premium level service should not be available for this equipment because the equipment itself is a very good deal to begin with. I don't understand that philosophy especially given the industry we're in. Many people here make at least part of their money by renting equipment. It's a profit center. I fail to understand why this manufacturer can't do the same. I think it would help them in the professional market.
Anyway, there is nothing disingenuous in my post. Your post, however, chose to abbreviate my post and ignore the context of the conversation.
When X32-R's are available for rental locally I will get one and send my unit in, simple as that.
And for the record...
The PC comment was a response to JR from earlier.
Perhaps in Penwortham the auto shops don't offer loaners, the ones I go to do.
I'm not after something for nothing, see above.
and one last thought on this subject....
As prices are reduced on hardware, premium support will become the profit center of the industry. That's how the auto industry in America works. That's the model the software industry has adopted. Even our gas delivery company offers home appliance maintenance service contracts. Premium customer service is the future, not some 70's through-back.
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A
..but not for the retail industry - and that's the point. the majority of garages in the UK do not offer courtesy cars. a small amount do and it is reflected in the price you pay but it's the exception, not the rule. if you take a car to a main dealer outside of warranty you generally do not get a courtesy car - you do around 50% of the time within the warranty period but seldom to the same standard. a BMW dealer cannot afford to give you a BMW as a courtesy car - he gives you a VW polo (think 12 channel desk for your 32 channel digital if you don't know the car). the RETAIL market doesn't sustain any more cost.
those services ARE more freely available to the trade - so if you are a business, you are more likely to opt for a value added service package to cover your business risk - and you expect to pay for it. but in the retail sector such packages have gone the way of the dinosaur. there simply isn't the profit margins to maintain them.
and like it or not the X32 is NOT a trade product - it's a retail product that is being purchased by the trade because of its features. X32 = retail. M32 = trade. of course there are plenty of users of one in the other category and of course behringer will be rightly pleased with this. but they are first and foremost a manufacturer for the retail sector - individuals and local bands using these solutions in their studios and at their local gigs. you are not now or ever likely to be able to buy a home cinema package for £1,000 that comes with premium support. at the luxury end wealthy clients may well pay for such support on more expensive products. that's the same price point of an x32 rack - the carrage there and back for the loan and the rack to be repaired would be getting on for 10% of the cost - and all the original profit.
i guess that's my point - the market sustains premium support for premium equipment - not premium support for low priced retail product. It just business sense - the margins aren't there and a premium cost service network isn't what manufacturers like behringer are set up for - for that you want premium products like midas. for the same reason behringer's solution to training is videos and forums not training days at the service centre.
the PA hire co model isn't relevant - hence the introduction of the M32 for more robust construction and dealer support.
remember this isn't about what happens in your town, district state or country - it's about what works on a global scale for a global company. Music group have already bent over backwards with support well beyond their retail rivals - this IS their premium customer support. Just because some PA co's and individuals would like more doesn't mean to say it's valid to roll that out across 5 or 6 continents.
If you want premium support you need to put your hand in a much deeper pocket - and give Midas a call.
..but not for the retail industry - and that's the point. the majority of garages in the UK do not offer courtesy cars. a small amount do and it is reflected in the price you pay but it's the exception, not the rule. if you take a car to a main dealer outside of warranty you generally do not get a courtesy car - you do around 50% of the time within the warranty period but seldom to the same standard. a BMW dealer cannot afford to give you a BMW as a courtesy car - he gives you a VW polo (think 12 channel desk for your 32 channel digital if you don't know the car). the RETAIL market doesn't sustain any more cost.
those services ARE more freely available to the trade - so if you are a business, you are more likely to opt for a value added service package to cover your business risk - and you expect to pay for it. but in the retail sector such packages have gone the way of the dinosaur. there simply isn't the profit margins to maintain them.
and like it or not the X32 is NOT a trade product - it's a retail product that is being purchased by the trade because of its features. X32 = retail. M32 = trade. of course there are plenty of users of one in the other category and of course behringer will be rightly pleased with this. but they are first and foremost a manufacturer for the retail sector - individuals and local bands using these solutions in their studios and at their local gigs. you are not now or ever likely to be able to buy a home cinema package for £1,000 that comes with premium support. at the luxury end wealthy clients may well pay for such support on more expensive products. that's the same price point of an x32 rack - the carrage there and back for the loan and the rack to be repaired would be getting on for 10% of the cost - and all the original profit.
i guess that's my point - the market sustains premium support for premium equipment - not premium support for low priced retail product. It just business sense - the margins aren't there and a premium cost service network isn't what manufacturers like behringer are set up for - for that you want premium products like midas. for the same reason behringer's solution to training is videos and forums not training days at the service centre.
the PA hire co model isn't relevant - hence the introduction of the M32 for more robust construction and dealer support.
remember this isn't about what happens in your town, district state or country - it's about what works on a global scale for a global company. Music group have already bent over backwards with support well beyond their retail rivals - this IS their premium customer support. Just because some PA co's and individuals would like more doesn't mean to say it's valid to roll that out across 5 or 6 continents.
If you want premium support you need to put your hand in a much deeper pocket - and give Midas a call.
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A
The first time I used my X32 Rack the talk over this issue was so bad that I thought for sure mine was stuck too. After taking a deep breath, I realized that it was not stuck at all. I quickly got a patchbay after the gig, which is what I use now to handle I/O instead of fiddling around in the back of the rack. Then a friend and I came up with the idea of modding our X32 Racks, essentially replacing all the XLR jacks.
Honestly, if I had 18 shows in 20 days, a stuck cable in the back of a digital mixer that cost me less than $1200 would be low on my priority list. I would want to have a second X32 Rack just to be safe and make sure the show could go on in the event of an unseen event that took out the mixer. The road can be a harsh mistress!
The first time I used my X32 Rack the talk over this issue was so bad that I thought for sure mine was stuck too. After taking a deep breath, I realized that it was not stuck at all. I quickly got a patchbay after the gig, which is what I use now to handle I/O instead of fiddling around in the back of the rack. Then a friend and I came up with the idea of modding our X32 Racks, essentially replacing all the XLR jacks.
Honestly, if I had 18 shows in 20 days, a stuck cable in the back of a digital mixer that cost me less than $1200 would be low on my priority list. I would want to have a second X32 Rack just to be safe and make sure the show could go on in the event of an unseen event that took out the mixer. The road can be a harsh mistress!
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A
Honestly, how much more space is a 2RU mixer going to take up? I have tight truck packs too, as I'm sure everyone here does, and there is always room for essentials (like a spare mixer). When someone is as busy as you are, redundancy is a no brainer. I have toured under a variety of constraints from space to budget but we always make room for the essentials.
Honestly, how much more space is a 2RU mixer going to take up? I have tight truck packs too, as I'm sure everyone here does, and there is always room for essentials (like a spare mixer). When someone is as busy as you are, redundancy is a no brainer. I have toured under a variety of constraints from space to budget but we always make room for the essentials.
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A
X32r is actually 3 RU, so it's probably the 3rd space that puts him "over the top". Probably affects gas mileage too...
X32r is actually 3 RU, so it's probably the 3rd space that puts him "over the top". Probably affects gas mileage too...
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A
Maybe he has yet to hear the pitch about the great extended warranties they sell at the big box MI retailers for any and all products. These guys will sell you a warranty that lives up to the most unrealistic of expectations... At least on paper it does.
Maybe he has yet to hear the pitch about the great extended warranties they sell at the big box MI retailers for any and all products. These guys will sell you a warranty that lives up to the most unrealistic of expectations... At least on paper it does.
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A
For 3 RU it needs to cook breakfast and wash my socks! /satire
@ mark - sorry, but I've very much with JR, Howard and Ron. The kind of support that Berry is is supplying right now is unprecedented in their history (at least to my recollection). While your rental proposal has some merit the back-end costs of administering it are higher than they might appear at first glance. Perhaps value-added support from your dealer? We're dealers for a small number of brands and we're not a repair station for any of them, but if a customer had a hardware problem with something purchased from us, we'd try to accommodate them with *something* at whatever terms seem reasonable for the situation.
The kind of support we get from Avid on our Venue series mixers is 24/7 technician on call, who can walk us through diagnostic utilities and interpret the results, then stay on the phone and guide us in dis-assembly and further testing. Sometimes they do advance replacement with a credit card deposit on the return. Avid service & support are very good. The cost of entry into this club is around $20,000 (SC48). It's still a great value at that price: we spent 5x with Yamaha and Soundcraft back in Ye Olde Analogue Dayz and support was mostly 9 -5, M-F unless you got the super secret phone number
Obligatory automotive analogy: my local independent repair shop usually has a loaner car for me because I come in for a whole bunch of service at once and they give me the big spender treatment. And I ask when I make my appointment. Plus they know I'll set up office in their waiting room 8)~
~ Great folks, they've been working on my vans, cars and pickups for 20+ years. Perhaps this is a good time to go back to "value added support from your dealer..." 
X32r is actually 3 RU, so it's probably the 3rd space that puts him "over the top". Probably affects gas mileage too...
For 3 RU it needs to cook breakfast and wash my socks! /satire
@ mark - sorry, but I've very much with JR, Howard and Ron. The kind of support that Berry is is supplying right now is unprecedented in their history (at least to my recollection). While your rental proposal has some merit the back-end costs of administering it are higher than they might appear at first glance. Perhaps value-added support from your dealer? We're dealers for a small number of brands and we're not a repair station for any of them, but if a customer had a hardware problem with something purchased from us, we'd try to accommodate them with *something* at whatever terms seem reasonable for the situation.
The kind of support we get from Avid on our Venue series mixers is 24/7 technician on call, who can walk us through diagnostic utilities and interpret the results, then stay on the phone and guide us in dis-assembly and further testing. Sometimes they do advance replacement with a credit card deposit on the return. Avid service & support are very good. The cost of entry into this club is around $20,000 (SC48). It's still a great value at that price: we spent 5x with Yamaha and Soundcraft back in Ye Olde Analogue Dayz and support was mostly 9 -5, M-F unless you got the super secret phone number
Obligatory automotive analogy: my local independent repair shop usually has a loaner car for me because I come in for a whole bunch of service at once and they give me the big spender treatment. And I ask when I make my appointment. Plus they know I'll set up office in their waiting room 8)~
~ Great folks, they've been working on my vans, cars and pickups for 20+ years. Perhaps this is a good time to go back to "value added support from your dealer..." Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A
I'd assume that would void the warranty? Have either of you done it yet?
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A
To add to the whole sh*tstorm about service/support… I have a feeling that this is part of why there is a M32. Because it's now under Midas and directed at a more explicitly "pro" market segment, service and support will likely be one of the lesser mentioned selling points.
To add to the whole sh*tstorm about service/support… I have a feeling that this is part of why there is a M32. Because it's now under Midas and directed at a more explicitly "pro" market segment, service and support will likely be one of the lesser mentioned selling points.
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A
I haven't done anything to mine yet. I bought the patchbay and it is working fine, but the idea of replacing the XLR's is still in my head. I trust the build quality of the thing enough to use it for what it is and try to get as much ROI out of it as I can AS IS and then sell it after the warranty expires if there's any value left in it. I'm sure eventually someone will bring me a broken X32 Rack and then I'll surely give it a shot. The one I have is too valuable to me to be monkeying around with unless I have a really good reason, so I can't see me trying it on a working X32 Rack that I own.
I haven't done anything to mine yet. I bought the patchbay and it is working fine, but the idea of replacing the XLR's is still in my head. I trust the build quality of the thing enough to use it for what it is and try to get as much ROI out of it as I can AS IS and then sell it after the warranty expires if there's any value left in it. I'm sure eventually someone will bring me a broken X32 Rack and then I'll surely give it a shot. The one I have is too valuable to me to be monkeying around with unless I have a really good reason, so I can't see me trying it on a working X32 Rack that I own.
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A
Uli,
Can you give us a shipping time frame for the X-Touch controller?
And also can you comment on whether or not there will be a fader expansion pack for the full X-Touch; with just the 8 faders and scribble strips that will match up size wise with the full sized X-Touch but does not include the main fader and transport etc section?
thanks,
Uli,
Can you give us a shipping time frame for the X-Touch controller?
And also can you comment on whether or not there will be a fader expansion pack for the full X-Touch; with just the 8 faders and scribble strips that will match up size wise with the full sized X-Touch but does not include the main fader and transport etc section?
thanks,
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A
Uli - please make my X32 Expanders, the de-layering tool I have a post of on your Behringer community site.
Please!
and my revised P16M mixer also.
Uli - please make my X32 Expanders, the de-layering tool I have a post of on your Behringer community site.
Please!
and my revised P16M mixer also.
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A
I worked on a Midas Heritage for a bit. The center section developed a problem. At that time there were only two spare modules in the country. We had to give Midas a credit card and let them charge $12k (IIRC) for the loaner module. The module was send in for repair. When we got the repaired module back, they credited our card. This was around 2006 or so. We had to keep going and we had no options. Now, consoles are so cheap, you should just buy two and have a back up. I think it is easier than ever to keep going.
For 3 RU it needs to cook breakfast and wash my socks! /satire
@ mark - sorry, but I've very much with JR, Howard and Ron. The kind of support that Berry is is supplying right now is unprecedented in their history (at least to my recollection). While your rental proposal has some merit the back-end costs of administering it are higher than they might appear at first glance. Perhaps value-added support from your dealer? We're dealers for a small number of brands and we're not a repair station for any of them, but if a customer had a hardware problem with something purchased from us, we'd try to accommodate them with *something* at whatever terms seem reasonable for the situation.
The kind of support we get from Avid on our Venue series mixers is 24/7 technician on call, who can walk us through diagnostic utilities and interpret the results, then stay on the phone and guide us in dis-assembly and further testing. Sometimes they do advance replacement with a credit card deposit on the return. Avid service & support are very good. The cost of entry into this club is around $20,000 (SC48). It's still a great value at that price: we spent 5x with Yamaha and Soundcraft back in Ye Olde Analogue Dayz and support was mostly 9 -5, M-F unless you got the super secret phone number
Obligatory automotive analogy: my local independent repair shop usually has a loaner car for me because I come in for a whole bunch of service at once and they give me the big spender treatment. And I ask when I make my appointment. Plus they know I'll set up office in their waiting room 8)~
I worked on a Midas Heritage for a bit. The center section developed a problem. At that time there were only two spare modules in the country. We had to give Midas a credit card and let them charge $12k (IIRC) for the loaner module. The module was send in for repair. When we got the repaired module back, they credited our card. This was around 2006 or so. We had to keep going and we had no options. Now, consoles are so cheap, you should just buy two and have a back up. I think it is easier than ever to keep going.