X32 Discussion

Re: X32 Discussion

Gido Kuechler said:
Proof of concept is up and running.
Who want to test it now?

Mike? You ask for it ;-).

Ciao
Gido
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I am amazed that, within a day or so of asking, Gido has come up with the Dugan emulation. But although I was the one who asked for it, I don't think I can be very helpful in its development. I am not a programmer at all, and will only have access to the X32 occasionally as it doesn't belong to me.

I'm glad some others have offered to test it, and I will follow the progress closely. And when it gets to the point where I can just download an application to the laptop (I assume that's what it's going to be) I hope I will be able to give you some input.

Thanks again,
Mick.
 
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Re: X32 Discussion

Mick Berg said:
I am amazed that, within a day or so of asking, Gido has come up with the Dugan emulation. But although I was the one who asked for it, I don't think I can be very helpful in its development. I am not a programmer at all, and will only have access to the X32 occasionally as it doesn't belong to me.

I'm glad some others have offered to test it, and I will follow the progress closely. And when it gets to the point where I can just download an application to the laptop (I assume that's what it's going to be) I hope I will be able to give you some input.

Thanks again,
Mick.
Click to expand...

A participant over at ProSoundWeb crafted an amplitude-based automixer for Yamaha based on metering data. There is a lot more going on in the Dugan mixers than simple amplitude detection.
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Mick Berg said:
I am amazed that, within a day or so of asking, Gido has come up with the Dugan emulation. But although I was the one who asked for it, I don't think I can be very helpful in its development. I am not a programmer at all, and will only have access to the X32 occasionally as it doesn't belong to me.

I'm glad some others have offered to test it, and I will follow the progress closely. And when it gets to the point where I can just download an application to the laptop (I assume that's what it's going to be) I hope I will be able to give you some input.

Thanks again,
Mick.
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In a word: patent

In two words: intellectual property

Tread softly, gentlemen.
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Tim McCulloch said:
JR can speak to this, but IIRC he's mentioned that Dan Dugan's *original* patent has either expired or can be worked around.
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I believe that is correct. But there is the new "Dugan Card" stuff for digital consoles that may possibly have some protected developments.

Just saying to check carefully on this.
 
Re: On a lighter note...

Joe Sanborn said:
Hi Guys,

In regards to the monitor section noise you mentioned above:

This is not typical and has been noted in a very few production models. It is related to an internal cable routing and is a very easy fix.
It is related to the monitor cable running too close to DSP chips.
This has been changed in production and any units with this issue can easily be corrected.

I will get an official service notice on this, with the exact procedure/resolution.

I hope it helps.

Best
Joe Sanborn
Manager, Channel Marketing
MUSIC Group
BEHRINGER
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Any more word on this? I may have simply missed it.
Just got my new console (date code 1208) and it does whine quite a bit. Talked to CS and I'm not too keen on spending sixty bucks and giving it up for weeks in order to make a minor tweak.

Thanks much!

Dave Hone
FOH 10,000 Maniacs
 
Re: old scenes

DUAL PITCH!!!
Steve Maksim said:
I haven't tried it, yet, but there's a pitch shifter in the effects library called. It's called "Dual Pitch." Make sure that you try loading in one of the first four effects slots.
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Only in 1st and 2nd slot!!?? Ok no problem... But In saturday i was thinking about too much drinking... :) :) :)
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Yes the original "Dugan" patent is expired (that is the deal for having exclusive use for first 17 years.). He has later improvement patents but I can't even remember what they cover. The basic auto-mixing algorithm is public domain and free to use. I used it in a Peavey Automatic mixer product some 15 years ago.

I do not know exactly what the OP is asking for. A simple meter level based AM algorithm can exhibit as much as a 3 dB gain sharing error between coherent and incoherent sound sources. This is not a complete deal killer, but not as accurate as it should be. Drilling down a little deeper into the mixer coding a very serviceable automatic mixer could be executed inexpensively (it's only software :-) ). This does not require any extra hardware for signal stems already in the digital domain, or overly complex number crunching that would tax processor headroom severely, while it isn't free of all processor demand. You do need access to the "right" raw data for good results. Operating off meter data is pushing the limits of timely responsive gain sharing.

As I have mentioned before, just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. I'd like to see Dan keep making money from his Yami plug-in cards a while longer. This seems to me like a more appropriate "premium" feature for the more expensive Midas Digital consoles first if Behringer is interested. I am not sure why Yamaha went the plug-in card route, but that isn't my first question about things "other" people do.

According to my crystal ball, automatic mixing will become a popular feature in all premium digital consoles at some future date, but my crystal ball doesn't publish release dates, so be patient.

JR

PS: One of my patents is related to an automatic mixer improvement, but IMO 99% of the benefit related to AM, comes from the basic "Dugan" algorithm.
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Hi John,

I think you are right. I am not sure, acting on meta data is accurate enough. In my money earning live I am on of the main developers of the Ferrari electronic AG - OfficeMaster Gateways (Home | Ferrari electronic AG). In those boxes i work on a 4ms time base to get good echo canceling and sound quality on an 8kHz signal.

The algorithm in X32Automix is a simple level compare with attack and release time.

But maybe it is fast enough for a sort of automix in an spoken word environment.
On the other side it is just a funny try what can be done with X32 and OSC.
Maybe it brings in some useful ideas.

By the way, the proof of concept has another function if the according channel is set to "2" it reduces the gain on clipping.
You can get both if you set the parameter to "3". Levels are given as a float value between 0.0 and 1.0.

Download is available on X32MidiOsc | A development blog
There is no documentation yet. Works simular to X32MidiOsc without MIDI.

Here is a short video: X32Automix - YouTube

Recording is via X32 in Logic (prefader) ;-)

Ciao
Gido
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Dear Dave Hone,

I'd be more than happy to help with this issue. Please check your PM's.


Kind regards,

Chase McKnight
Jr. Admin, Tech Support
MUSIC Group
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Gido Kuechler said:
I think you are right. I am not sure, acting on meta data is accurate enough.
Click to expand...
While the meta data might not be 100% accurate for absolute measurements the relationship between the NOM meta data is coherent. Since the automixer works with differential data the information provided should be more than accurate enough.

Given the coherency you could also use the builtin gate in the x32 together with osc to accomplish a more intelligent automixer.

If you monitor each input and compute a sum it should become possible to extract the appropiate gate threshold for adaptive functionality. It also enables you to set the dim-range depending on NOM. All this in realtime.

This leaves the fader for normal abuse.
 
Re: XiControl

Eric Eskam said:
Wifi means your neighbors can have an effect on you. Any new jerks blasting your airwaves with a high powered AP potentially causing interference? You state everything else that worked before is the same - but the only thing constant with radio spectrum is change :)
Click to expand...

Same amount of (minimal) WiFi channels. It's an old solid building, so only VERY close signals can penetrate.

Will set the same gear up here at home and see what happens.
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Robert Lofgren said:
While the meta data might not be 100% accurate for absolute measurements the relationship between the NOM meta data is coherent. Since the automixer works with differential data the information provided should be more than accurate enough.

Given the coherency you could also use the builtin gate in the x32 together with osc to accomplish a more intelligent automixer.

If you monitor each input and compute a sum it should become possible to extract the appropiate gate threshold for adaptive functionality. It also enables you to set the dim-range depending on NOM. All this in realtime.

This leaves the fader for normal abuse.
Click to expand...

I think it would be better if it worked this way. I would want to be able to disable certain mics using the faders, for instance if you had set up for a panel of eight but only six speakers showed up.

I had a look at Gido's video and I didn't see the levels drop by 3db when two mics were active, keeping the gain constant, which is an essential part of the Dugan algorithm, I believe.

Great work! I'm very impressed!:thumbup:

Mick.
 
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