X32 Discussion

Re: X32 Tech Talk

Joe Sanborn said:
Hi Guys,
We have posted a few new BEHRINGER Tech Talks which may be helpful.

BEHRINGER Tech Talk #01: S16 and X32

BEHRINGER Tech Talk #02: POWERPLAY P16 Personal Monitoring System

BEHRINGER Tech Talk #03: Subgroups and DCAs

Best Regards,
Joe Sanborn
Manager, Channel Marketing
MUSIC Group
BEHRINGER
Click to expand...

Although I don't have any S16s, I read the #01 Tech Talk out of interest, but it seemeed to me that you would not get any connection to the outputs.

My suspicion was confirmed by someone who posted that he had followed the instructions but could not get output.

I think there is a step missing in the instructions, ie routing the outputs to the AES50.

Mick Berg.
 
Re: X32 Tech Talk

Unfortunately, I missed the webinar as I've been out on gigs all weekend.
What was the upshot of the shielded vs unshielded question?

I'm still not sure what is correct as I have Behringer US telling me not to use shielded as the added capacitance from the shield can be a problem, and on the forum here, another Behringer rep is saying we should use shielded.
If we do use stp, should we use the metal shell plugs and connect the shield at both ends? I am presuming the x32 and s16's have the ethercon sockets wired to pass the ground through?

I must say kudos to the service centre who are sending me a new desk and 2 s16's. Any equipment can have issues, it is how the company handles those issues that wins and loses customers!

I will soak test these on the bench here before sending them out on a job. I'll try the existing cable I have, and also get a new one per the Behringer reccomendation when I'm sure on that.

I hope the answer is as simple as the cable, although it would still not explain to me why it works on other systems, ethernet and AES50, but not on the x32/s16 combination.
FWIW both of my shows that failed continued without a hitch after the desk and stage racks were swapped out. Everything else, cables etc etc, remained unchanged.

Darren
 
Re: X32 Tech Talk

Darren Scaresbrook said:
Unfortunately, I missed the webinar as I've been out on gigs all weekend.
What was the upshot of the shielded vs unshielded question?
I'm still not sure what is correct as I have Behringer US telling me not to use shielded as the added capacitance from the shield can be a problem, and on the forum here, another Behringer rep is saying we should use shielded.
If we do use stp, should we use the metal shell plugs and connect the shield at both ends? I am presuming the x32 and s16's have the ethercon sockets wired to pass the ground through?

I must say kudos to the service centre who are sending me a new desk and 2 s16's. Any equipment can have issues, it is how the company handles those issues that wins and loses customers!

I will soak test these on the bench here before sending them out on a job. I'll try the existing cable I have, and also get a new one per the Behringer reccomendation when I'm sure on that.

I hope the answer is as simple as the cable, although it would still not explain to me why it works on other systems, ethernet and AES50, but not on the x32/s16 combination.
FWIW both of my shows that failed continued without a hitch after the desk and stage racks were swapped out. Everything else, cables etc etc, remained unchanged.

Darren
Click to expand...

I too am confused. The first cat5 cable I tried were ones I had lying around (I think supplied with a BT ROUTER) these had metal ends - could not get them to sync the s16 so swapped out for bogstandard cat5e which worked. May have been something else re these cables but at time assumed it was the metal shields on the connectors!!!!!!
 
Re: X32 Tech Talk

Dear all,

allow me to chime in here.

There are some general misconceptions I would like to quickly address.

1.) While the X32 will perfectly work with non-shielded cables, we clearly recommend the use of shielded cables in line with the specifications in our manual. This is to protect the X32 system as well as the environment from EMI (Electro-Magnetic Interference). Plus shielded cables are required to meet compliance regulations. If you check other manufacturers of digital network equipment, you will find similar recommendations.

2.) As with any equipment, the quality of the cable is critical and any intermittent connection has fatal consequences. If you run professional audio applications, you want to make sure to use the most reliable and suitable cables. Both the X32 and S16 are equipped with the best Neutrik Ethercon connectors, hence the cable makes all the difference.

3.) Having said that, the main focus must be to prevent power noise being induced through the mains connections – that is the root cause for most of the problems described. As a general rule you should NEVER share audio equipment power sources with any other high-power equipment such as lighting, etc.
The digital noise and voltage spikes induced by such equipment will potentially penetrate the X32, S16 etc. and cause interference with the digital electronics which can lead to audio noise, signal interruptions or worse complete system failure. Always remember that a digital mixing console is a very complex computer which requires a high degree of power supply integrity, especially in critical live environments where conditions are less than optimal.

While the X32 has excellent built-in mains filters, we clearly suggest using external power filters for critical applications and not just simple UPS' as those usually do not incorporate mains filters.

It is crucial to understand that these are measures that apply to ANY digital networking system.

Since this is a very important topic, we will be issuing a White Paper and additional paragraphs in the manual. We will also consider to offer dedicated networking cables and will be speaking with Neutrik whom we have a great relationship with.

Warm regards

Uli
 
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Re: X32 Tech Talk

Darren Scaresbrook said:
I hope the answer is as simple as the cable, although it would still not explain to me why it works on other systems, ethernet and AES50, but not on the x32/s16 combination.
FWIW both of my shows that failed continued without a hitch after the desk and stage racks were swapped out. Everything else, cables etc etc, remained unchanged.
Click to expand...

Glad to hear they're sorting you out Darren - hopefully mine doesn't get to that point!

I ran my system again this morning, and had it multi-tracking to Reaper the whole time, in case it happened and i could record it... but - thank Murphy - it DIDN'T happen today... :?~:-?~:???:
There were two things I did differently today, to how my assistant usually connects the cables. The first, was plugging my FOH power into a different power board (same circuit though as usual though). The other, was changing the way my fly-lead was plugged between the X32 and the snake reel. You see, the cable on my snake reel DOESN'T have an Ethercon connector on it, just a standard booted RJ45 - that is the end I plug into the S16. My fly-lead though, has a booted RJ45 on one end, and an Ethercon on the other. I noticed that my young assistant had been plugging the booted end into the X32, and the Ethercon into the side of the snake reel. This morning, I reversed that, and plugged the Ethercon into the X32 - mainly because of everyone mentioning the grounding issue. So, not sure if that made a difference, or if it was just pure luck/coincidence that I had no issues this morning...?

tourcat.jpg

So, my cable is the VanDamme Tourcat Cat5E STP Flexible (268-450-000 - Van Damme - Specifications - TourCat Series Category 5E cable) - does that qualify as being up to Behringer's recommended spec? If I add Ethercon connectors to the other ends of my cable and fly-leads, am I likely to cure that which ails me? Or should i be looking at a UPS (or power filter too now?) - and if i get one of those, can I mount it in my stage rack, and feed the power out from that to both my FOH and S16?
 
Re: X32 Tech Talk

Uli Behringer said:


There are some general misconceptions I would like to quickly address.

1.) While the X32 will perfectly work with non-shielded cables, we clearly recommend the use of shielded cables in line with our specifications in the manual.
Click to expand...

Hi Uli,

Thanks for this note. It is very welcome.

Regarding the point above, could you or someone else please highlight this recommendation? I obviously missed it.

Additionally, if there is a suggested source for such cables, that would be most helpful, and even more so if it were a Behringer item that dealers could offer as part of the package instead of having the users source them. Like you say, this is a critical part of the system; any shortcomings/unreliabilities here will limit the appeal of the whole, and we've seen glimpses of the limit in this thread.

Thank you for your personal attention to this. As has been said before, it is most impressive.

Thanks again,
Dan
 
Re: X32 Tech Talk

Michael Roper said:
Glad to hear they're sorting you out Darren - hopefully mine doesn't get to that point!

I ran my system again this morning, and had it multi-tracking to Reaper the whole time, in case it happened and i could record it... but - thank Murphy - it DIDN'T happen today... :?~:-?~:???:
There were two things I did differently today, to how my assistant usually connects the cables. The first, was plugging my FOH power into a different power board (same circuit though as usual though). The other, was changing the way my fly-lead was plugged between the X32 and the snake reel. You see, the cable on my snake reel DOESN'T have an Ethercon connector on it, just a standard booted RJ45 - that is the end I plug into the S16. My fly-lead though, has a booted RJ45 on one end, and an Ethercon on the other. I noticed that my young assistant had been plugging the booted end into the X32, and the Ethercon into the side of the snake reel. This morning, I reversed that, and plugged the Ethercon into the X32 - mainly because of everyone mentioning the grounding issue. So, not sure if that made a difference, or if it was just pure luck/coincidence that I had no issues this morning...?

View attachment 6417

So, my cable is the VanDamme Tourcat Cat5E STP Flexible (268-450-000 - Van Damme - Specifications - TourCat Series Category 5E cable) - does that qualify as being up to Behringer's recommended spec? If I add Ethercon connectors to the other ends of my cable and fly-leads, am I likely to cure that which ails me? Or should i be looking at a UPS (or power filter too now?) - and if i get one of those, can I mount it in my stage rack, and feed the power out from that to both my FOH and S16?
Click to expand...

Hi Michael,

It sounds like you are on a path and are trying things that might work; good for you!

Your cable is shielded, so that is good. Someone else will have to tell you if it meets the spec.

Are your RJ45 connectors inside the Ethercons the metal coated ones like Declan described? If so, then you'd need to have the same thing running from your reel to the console and then your rig should be fully shielded.

If you connect everything up but place the S16's close enough to the console that your ohmeter leads can touch both, do you get zero ohms? And in thinking about that for half a second, wouldn't you get zero ohms anyway from the ground pins on the console and S16 AC? Hmmmm. Maybe just measure between each RJ45 body that would be otherwise plugged into the console and S16. If you can find something like the Greenlee NetCat, I believe that tells you if the shield is connected, too.

Regarding your last point, about feeding both FOH and S16, that's what I'm doing. You just need to keep in mind that your UPS will have a maximum capacity, and if you need AC for other things at FOH, you may need to run a separate non-UPS service there to avoid exceeding that capacity.

Thanks for posting the pic; I'd wondered what those reels looked like.

Good luck; it's hard to decide if you are better off not having the problem again but not knowing what it was for sure, or having the problem so you can figure out what it is and definitely fix it.

Dan
 
Ask for photo.

To X32 owners. Can I ask one of you for making photo of one scribble strip screen. But I need very detail photo, because I need to see each pixel on this screen. You should be able to do it using macro-mode in your camera.

I need something like this:
spj143.jpg

In good enought resolution, to see each pixel separatly:
qz594x.jpg

Thank you in advance.
 
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Re: X32 Tech Talk

Mick Berg said:
Although I don't have any S16s, I read the #01 Tech Talk out of interest, but it seemeed to me that you would not get any connection to the outputs.

My suspicion was confirmed by someone who posted that he had followed the instructions but could not get output.

I think there is a step missing in the instructions, ie routing the outputs to the AES50.

Mick Berg.
Click to expand...

Hi Mike,

In regards to your question about:
BEHRINGER Tech Talk #01: S16 and X32
When setting up the S16s as described in the Tech Talk article, the outputs on the 2-S16 Stage Boxes would mirror the 16 XLR outputs on the X32. This is why it instructs you to assign your outputs individually on the "analog out" page of the ROUTING menu. With this configuration, the first S16 would get analog outs 1-8 and the second S16 would get outs 9-16.
If this is not working, check the "AES50 out" tab of the ROUTING menu (AES50 A or B depending on which X32 port you are using). Make sure the first two banks of outputs (AES50 Outs 1-16) are set to "Out 1-8" and "Out 9-16." These are the default settings, which can always be recalled by "initializing" the console on the "config" tab of the SETUP menu.

I hope it clarifies and helps.

Best Regards,
Joe Sanborn
Manager, Channel Marketing
MUSIC Group
BEHRINGER
 
Re: X32 Tech Talk

Joe Sanborn said:
Hi Mike,

In regards to your question about:
BEHRINGER Tech Talk #01: S16 and X32
When setting up the S16s as described in the Tech Talk article, the outputs on the 2-S16 Stage Boxes would mirror the 16 XLR outputs on the X32. This is why it instructs you to assign your outputs individually on the "analog out" page of the ROUTING menu. With this configuration, the first S16 would get analog outs 1-8 and the second S16 would get outs 9-16.
If this is not working, check the "AES50 out" tab of the ROUTING menu (AES50 A or B depending on which X32 port you are using). Make sure the first two banks of outputs (AES50 Outs 1-16) are set to "Out 1-8" and "Out 9-16." These are the default settings, which can always be recalled by "initializing" the console on the "config" tab of the SETUP menu.

I hope it clarifies and helps.

Best Regards,
Joe Sanborn
Manager, Channel Marketing
MUSIC Group
BEHRINGER
Click to expand...

Hi Joe

Thanks for the explanation. It's a bit confusing, but if it works, it works. As I said I don't actually have S16's, but am interested in them.
I guess the other guy got his issues sorted out.


Cheers,
Mick Berg.
 
Re: X32 Tech Talk

Need to avoid this in the future. I programmed a bunch of scenes for a theatrical production, set a bunch of parameters and channels to "safe", then Sat night recalled my normal "Rock band" scene and completely lost any semblence of routing, presets..etc. is there a way to avoid this? Is there a " clear all safe" procedure?
Thanks.
 
Re: X32 Tech Talk

I would really like to see an X32 Tech Talk on saving and using safe parameters, as it is something that seems to come up often. I would like to be able to do these things:

- Have a scene that is my default scene for a band I work with that recalls everything, but then be able to have different scenes recalling ONLY effects changes between the scenes, leaving all other things alone. I'm sure this is do-able, I'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around which safes to have checked when saving the original scene, and then which to have checked for the "change effects" scenes.
 
Re: X32 Tech Talk

John Chiara said:
Need to avoid this in the future. I programmed a bunch of scenes for a theatrical production, set a bunch of parameters and channels to "safe", then Sat night recalled my normal "Rock band" scene and completely lost any semblence of routing, presets..etc. is there a way to avoid this? Is there a " clear all safe" procedure?
Thanks.
Click to expand...

John,

Use the scenes to save settings within a performance. If you are doing a theatre gig and then a band the next gig, they should be saved as separate shows. The scenes are contained in the shows. When you recall the show, all the scenes and parameters come back, including your set up of scene safes.
I haven't got my desk here at the moment but I think, from memory, that paging down from the scene memory screen takes you to the show memory screen.

Darren
 
Re: X32 Tech Talk

There are a couple of things that one should keep in the back of one's mind whenever working with scenes, and how that might possibly affect the outcome of any action.

- First of all, everything is saved, if a parameter, channel or part of a scene is safe, the settings will still be saved and might be recalled at a later time if the safe settings are changed.
- A bug (or indeed a feature) in the XControl means that parameter safes and channel safes are not saved to the showfile, I haven't tested to see if the console has the same feature. If one opens a showfile with the safes set, that showfile won't affect the parameters or channels that are safe as per the settings in the showfile, thus leaving it totally to chance what settings those parameters and channels might be at after the show has been loaded, so not having the "param safe" and "chan safe" statuses saved with the showfile makes total sense, but it means that after loading a show, these have to be configured manually in order to work.
- It is important that the first scene of a show doesn't contain any scene safes as a scene safe will mean that the show wont initialize to the original settings of that show and be set at whatever (random) setting the console had before loading the show. On can of course exploit this by for instance safing the Output Patch in every scene of the show, using a separate scene file to initialize these settings before the show is loaded, but then it has to be a deliberate and considered action.
 
Re: X32 Tech Talk

cevinreed said:
I would really like to see an X32 Tech Talk on saving and using safe parameters, as it is something that seems to come up often. I would like to be able to do these things:

- Have a scene that is my default scene for a band I work with that recalls everything, but then be able to have different scenes recalling ONLY effects changes between the scenes, leaving all other things alone. I'm sure this is do-able, I'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around which safes to have checked when saving the original scene, and then which to have checked for the "change effects" scenes.
Click to expand...
As I mentioned in my previous post, the original scene should not have any safes unless you deliberately want to do something "special".
To recall effect changes only, safe everything except the "Effects". If you want to also change the send levels, you need to uncheck the "Mix Buses", which will of course not only affect the sends but also the bus main faders and the matrix sends.
 
Re: X32 Tech Talk

Joe Sanborn said:
Hi Guys,
We have posted a few new BEHRINGER Tech Talks which may be helpful.
<snip>
BEHRINGER Tech Talk #03: Subgroups and DCAs

<snip>
Click to expand...

Re the description of case 3, parallel compression: I might have missed something, but as far as I have experienced, the DCA will affect the sub group send level and thus the signal feeding the compression, so pulling down the DCA will not only lower the overall level, but will affect the balance between compressed and uncompressed signal. It might not be an issue when using heavy compression and a very low treshold combined with relatively small DCA adjustments, and the effect of changing the balance might not be undesired as such, but as far as I can tell, the balance will be affected.
 
Re: X32 Tech Talk

Uli Behringer said:
<snip>
While the X32 has excellent built-in mains filters, we clearly suggest using external power filters for critical applications and not just simple UPS' as those usually do not incorporate mains filters.
<snip>
Click to expand...

What kind of filtering are you suggesting? A simple coil and caps wall wart noise filter or a bigger contraption?
 
Re: X32 Tech Talk

...i think a double conversion true sinewave ups is the right choice
i'm using an APC SURT1000RMXLI right now and i've not experienced any issue whatsoever! my snake is a eurocable 6*cat6 UTP with a shield on the outside jacket.
anyway i suggest reading this paper:
http://www.bicsi.org/pdf/conference...ed Cabling - Herb Congdon and Brian Davis.pdf[TABLE="width: 594"]
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