X32 Discussion

[Per Søvik]

Re: X32 Tech Talk

One option might be to setup and save your favorite effects settings into your effects preset library. You could then go to the Library section --->effects tab. then load the next custom effects patch(es) into the appropriate slot(s). Not sure how complex your needs are, but this is another way to do it without scene changes and 'safes'.

Sure that is one way to do it, but why would one want to do it in a cumbersome manner when the tools to do it efficiently are available? One should take the time to learn how to use the tools that will actually do the job, not find cumbersome ways to avoid using the available tools.

Well wouldn't that be nice. But I fear that you can only have one show in the console at a time. I'd be thrilled if someone told me I was wrong!
TBH I think the entire scene management scheme for the X32 is a complete disaster, and needs to be re-written from the ground up.
Mick Berg.

It totally depends what you mean by "in the console", you can obviously only have one show loaded, but that is not a limitation when going between bands, as a show load takes very little time compared to a changeover at stage, so there is no limitation in practical terms. When using the USB for recording, you have to stop the recording to load a new show, but again changeover would normally mean stopping the recording anyway, so again not a limitation of consequence.
The scene managment scheme is not a complete disaster, there is absolutely no way to have complete control over a multi-dimensional structure while making it so easy and manageable that it requires no learning and no understanding. The structure and basic concept is sound, some of us might want the odd tweak here and some adjustments there to suit or needs or tastes, but it is not a disaster and a complete rework will just put us back to square one, having to relearn it all.

<snip>I first made horrible mistakes trying to use SAFE-checks - simply confusing words SAVE and SAFE<snip>

You are obviously not the only one, and while the distinction can be hard for someone with a german language background because of phonetics, there seems to be a widespread problem distinguishing between the two, also by english language users, probably from the misconception (in this context) that saving something makes it safe and thus something that is selected as safe will be saved, and what isn't selected will not be saved.
Although I'm sure Timo has learned from his initial confusion, I guess many still have problems with the distinction between what happens during a SAVE and what happens during a RECALL as far as SAFE goes, so I'll repeat that a few times, maybe adding it to my signature to hammer it in:
SAVE saves the complete state of the console every time, it is a complete, all including snapshot.
RECALL recalls the parameters that are not selected as SAFE at the moment of recall.
The recall safe structure is complicated and needs to be learned and understood, there is no way around that!

 

[Per Søvik]

Re: X32 Discussion

I hope I can help.
how to configure the router and notebook to wirelessly control the mixer via x control.
I have a Belkin router (192.168.2.1) and I could not set it up properly.
thanks

You have to make sure everything is on the same subnet, if the computer is at 192.168.2.2 and the console at 192.168.2.10 for example, that should take care of it, you can see the addresses in the XControl and in the settings screen on the console. Also, make sure the computer sees this network as a private network so there are no firewalls that cause problems, similarly, the router should not have a firewall up between the wireless and the wired section, it doesn't need it when the wireless network is secured.
For best results, the computer should not be connected to any other networks and should have been completely scanned by the antivirus program, so that you safely can turn the program off along with any firewalls, this will ensure that communication goes undisturbed, but you have to make sure the computer and all its files are safe, and that it is not connected to the internet in any way.
What seems to be your specific problem? We are not mind-readers, and your question didn't give us much to go on.

 

[Eric Eskam]

Re: X32 Tech Talk

What kind of filtering are you suggesting? A simple coil and caps wall wart noise filter or a bigger contraption?

I've wanted to test out one of these: http://www.richardgrayspowercompany.com/pdf/power/subpro.pdf

 

[Wayne Garratley]

Re: X32 Tech Talk

Sorry if this has already been answered in this massive thread, but is there a way when using 2 x X32 with one being the stage box, to have the FOH L & R sent to the F/B console for patching? Desks are configured with FOH returns for playback and TTS but we can't find an option to send the FOH mix to the stage desk and avoid running a returns core?

 

[Per Søvik]

Re: X32 Tech Talk

Sorry if this has already been answered in this massive thread, but is there a way when using 2 x X32 with one being the stage box, to have the FOH L & R sent to the F/B console for patching? Desks are configured with FOH returns for playback and TTS but we can't find an option to send the FOH mix to the stage desk and avoid running a returns core?

That is one of the omissions not yet addressed in the updates, hopefully it will be fixed in the future. The only way is to sactifice two inputs and then assign the two outs to the direct outs of those inputs if you want to go directly, or tap the signal later in a chain if you want to add processing like eq.
Suggested routing: home: Aux in 1-4 from AES50 A1-4 analog out: Output xx from DirOut Aux 1 etc.

 

[Per Søvik]

Re: X32 Tech Talk

I've wanted to test out one of these: http://www.richardgrayspowercompany.com/pdf/power/subpro.pdf

He he, one of the reasons I got a digital desk was to cut down on outboard equipment, so that one will do nicely thank you. I could even put it in my amp rack that already holds a 76 lbs sub amp to make for easy load in ~~:smile:

 

[Fiona Hammond]

Re: X32 Tech Talk

Sorry if this has already been answered in this massive thread, but is there a way when using 2 x X32 with one being the stage box, to have the FOH L & R sent to the F/B console for patching? Desks are configured with FOH returns for playback and TTS but we can't find an option to send the FOH mix to the stage desk and avoid running a returns core?

Hi Wayne,

To obtain FOH L/R from MON's local out 15/16, with both consoles connected via AES50 A:

FOH:
ROUTING > HOME tab
INPUTS 1-32 = AES50 A 1-32
ANALOG OUT > OUTPUT 1/2 = MAIN L/R
AES50 A > OUTPUTS 1-8 = OUT 1-8

MON:
ROUTING > HOME tab
INPUTS 1-32 = LOCAL 1-32
AUX IN 1-4 = AES50 A 1-4
ANALOG OUT > OUTPUT 15/16 = DirOut Aux 1/2

On the MON console surface switch to the third layer, link AUX 1&2 and set to unity.

Kind Regards,
Fiona Hammond
CARE EMEA
MUSIC Group
BEHRINGER

 

[Wayne Garratley]

Re: X32 Tech Talk

To obtain FOH L/R from MON's local out 15/16, with both consoles connected via AES50 A:

FOH:
ROUTING > HOME tab
INPUTS 1-32 = AES50 A 1-32
ANALOG OUT > OUTPUT 1/2 = MAIN L/R
AES50 A > OUTPUTS 1-8 = OUT 1-8

MON:
ROUTING > HOME tab
INPUTS 1-32 = LOCAL 1-32
AUX IN 1-4 = AES50 A 1-4
ANALOG OUT > OUTPUT 15/16 = DirOut Aux 1/2

On the MON console surface switch to the third layer, link AUX 1&2 and set to unity.

Kind Regards,
Fiona Hammond
CARE EMEA
MUSIC Group
BEHRINGER

Thank you, and thanks to Per as well.

 

[Rob Dellwood]

Re: X32 Tech Talk

Originally Posted by Rob DellwoodOne option might be to setup and save your favorite effects settings into your effects preset library. You could then go to the Library section --->effects tab. then load the next custom effects patch(es) into the appropriate slot(s). Not sure how complex your needs are, but this is another way to do it without scene changes and 'safes'.

Sure that is one way to do it, but why would one want to do it in a cumbersome manner when the tools to do it efficiently are available? One should take the time to learn how to use the tools that will actually do the job, not find cumbersome ways to avoid using the available tools.

The good thing about forums is through sharing of information, people can learn differing ways of doing things on the console, and then make up their own minds as to which method best meets their needs. Using the preset library actually is quite efficient, and effects changes can be made in seconds, not minutes. Using scene changes to change effects only can be efficient also, but does require some work to de-select and then select dozens of 'safes' every time the console is used at a show, based on the way the OP described his needs and how he would use it. Some might say that is cumbersome.

The aim is to point out all the available tools, so one can choose the method that best meets their needs.

 

[Mick Berg]

Re: X32 Tech Talk

OK maybe my wording is a bit strong, but I wish the scene management was a simple files-and-folders thing, just like the Yamaha, completely logical and familiar to all of us.

I think Behringer have unnecessarily reinvented the wheel, and it's come out elliptical, if not square.

Mick Berg.

 

[Andrew Broughton]

OK maybe my wording is a bit strong, but I wish the scene management was a simple files-and-folders thing, just like the Yamaha, completely logical and familiar to all of us.

What do you mean?

 

[Per Søvik]

Re: X32 Tech Talk

The good thing about forums is through sharing of information, people can learn differing ways of doing things on the console, and then make up their own minds as to which method best meets their needs. Using the preset library actually is quite efficient, and effects changes can be made in seconds, not minutes. Using scene changes to change effects only can be efficient also, but does require some work to de-select and then select dozens of 'safes' every time the console is used at a show, based on the way the OP described his needs and how he would use it. Some might say that is cumbersome.

The aim is to point out all the available tools, so one can choose the method that best meets their needs.

While I certainly agree with you on the last point, I believe that in this case a lack of knowledge of how to use scenes for the purpose described somehow has led to a misconception about the work involved in doing that. There is no need to select and deselect anything "every time the console is used at a show" it is simply a matter of doing these selections (ticking six or seven boxes once per scene) when preparing the show, not a major task. Using scenes has the major advantage that it is easier and a lot more efficient during the show when it really counts. To be efficient when you want to change effects and at the same time change effect send levels, you can even omit ticking the parameters in the scenes, just load the show with the initial settings, go to the param safe page and select everything but mix sends in three easy key-pushes, or if you want to protect every send but the effect sends, four pushes to select everything and then another four to deselct the effect sends. Quickly done, and then you can get on with the show. It is quick, efficient and safe if you know how.
By all means, we should all use our preferred methods, but we shouldn't do so out if ignorance.
I have to admit that I often keep doing things in the manner I'm used to because I'm too memory challenged to always remember the new and presumably better way, but I wouldn't recommend "my" way if I knew there was a better one.

 

[Rob Dellwood]

Re: X32 Tech Talk

While I certainly agree with you on the last point, I believe that in this case a lack of knowledge of how to use scenes for the purpose described somehow has led to a misconception about the work involved in doing that. There is no need to select and deselect anything "every time the console is used at a show" it is simply a matter of doing these selections (ticking six or seven boxes once per scene) when preparing the show, not a major task. Using scenes has the major advantage that it is easier and a lot more efficient during the show when it really counts. To be efficient when you want to change effects and at the same time change effect send levels, you can even omit ticking the parameters in the scenes, just load the show with the initial settings, go to the param safe page and select everything but mix sends in three easy key-pushes, or if you want to protect every send but the effect sends, four pushes to select everything and then another four to deselct the effect sends. Quickly done, and then you can get on with the show. It is quick, efficient and safe if you know how.
By all means, we should all use our preferred methods, but we shouldn't do so out if ignorance.
I have to admit that I often keep doing things in the manner I'm used to because I'm too memory challenged to always remember the new and presumably better way, but I wouldn't recommend "my" way if I knew there was a better one.

The OP can decide which method is more efficient for his particular needs. My point about selecting and de-selecting safes for every show refers to the fact that the console memory retains all active 'safes'. So in order to load his default show, he must first de-select or turn off all the safes (if they are still on). Once the default scene is active, he must then select or turn on all the 'safes' needed to allow scene changes with only the effects changing. So unless I am missing something, there will be two separate actions regarding the 'safe' settings each time the board is used. One to turn off first, to load default show, and then one to turn on the safes. The other way would be if already off, load the default, then turn on 'safes'. At the end of the night, turn them off for the next time.

As others have posted, using 'safes' can be tricky and can cause major problems if one does not notice they are active (which is easy to do) or as you mention, if they are used without a good understanding of how they work. I know I am looking forward to learning more about them as Behringer puts out more seminars on that topic.

 

[Nick Davis]

Re: X32 (Tech Talk) scene safes - (& presets)

SAVE saves the complete state of the console every time, it is a complete, all including snapshot.

This is not entirely true - a scene does not seem to save the preset libraries.

I am quite happy with how scene saves work to make it work the other way round i.e. specify only what is saved - could speed up recalling only specific parms but then to remember what was and what was not saved would mean tieing this info with each scene.

My concern is more with the presets - which seem to work in a similar but opposite way. i.e. a preset seems to save all option head amp, config, gate , dyn, eq and sends. On the recall you specify which of these (or combination) you want to load - fair enough.

However - I would have liked ( would like - V2?) to have seen separate libraries for presets:

- Channel library - basically as now (though perhaps actually per channel
- separate libraries for EQ, DYN etc so that I could see a list of say EQ only settings for various uses e.g. a preset for Kick, for female vox, for AG etc and the same for dynamics etc.
At the moment can get a bit jumbled up and careful labelling of a preset is required.

 

[Antoon van den Oetelaar]

Re: X32 (Tech Talk) scene safes - (& presets)

I am quite happy with how scene saves work to make it work the other way round i.e. specify only what is saved - could speed up recalling only specific parms but then to remember what was and what was not saved would mean tieing this info with each scene.

In earlier discussions it was stated that everything is saved, the recall safe is used to get the right info out of the stored data.
I would like to be able to save only things who are important, that way avoiding that I recall something that should not be altered... So a safe on save.

I still think that an in depth explanation is needed by many.

 

[Per Søvik]

Re: X32 (Tech Talk) scene safes - (& presets)

This is not entirely true - a scene does not seem to save the preset libraries.

Correct, I was referring to the context of safes, the save includes "everything" wether it is safe or not, the save doesn't include library, setup (scribble strip and preamps are included), monitor, recorder.
To put it clearer: The safes does not affect what is saved, only what is recalled.

I am quite happy with how scene saves work to make it work the other way round i.e. specify only what is saved - could speed up recalling only specific parms but then to remember what was and what was not saved would mean tieing this info with each scene.

My concern is more with the presets - which seem to work in a similar but opposite way. i.e. a preset seems to save all option head amp, config, gate , dyn, eq and sends. On the recall you specify which of these (or combination) you want to load - fair enough.

However - I would have liked ( would like - V2?) to have seen separate libraries for presets:

- Channel library - basically as now (though perhaps actually per channel
- separate libraries for EQ, DYN etc so that I could see a list of say EQ only settings for various uses e.g. a preset for Kick, for female vox, for AG etc and the same for dynamics etc.
At the moment can get a bit jumbled up and careful labelling of a preset is required.

I don't know what you mean by similar but opposite as far as the presets are concerned, the difference as far as I can tell is that the presets can't be permanently set to a particular recall pattern because the recall pattern isn't included in the preset, and has to be specified at recall each time. Maybe that is what you mean?

There are certainly scope for tweaks for V2, one concern of mine is that some of these tweaks will be rather obscure and will change the way the console behaves without the changes being documented, thus creatin new problems for users that are starting to get the hang of how to use the console. Better and more detailed documentation will of course help, but unlearning is a bitch.

 

[Nick Davis]

Re: X32 (Tech Talk) scene safes - (& presets)

I don't know what you mean by similar but opposite as far as the presets are concerned, the difference as far as I can tell is that the presets can't be permanently set to a particular recall pattern because the recall pattern isn't included in the preset, and has to be specified at recall each time. Maybe that is what you mean?

.

yeh similar in that everything is saved and opposite in that- with scenes you basically state what you don't want to recall but with presets you state what you want to recall - have no problem with this in fact quite like it -to do this for scenes this would probably be very long winded - unless you saved a sort of default only recall such and such when the scene was saved - but probably make it even more complex - and undoubtedly many would then say they want it the other way round.
Still would like separate libraries though!!!

 

[Per Søvik]

Re: X32 (Tech Talk) scene safes - (& presets)

yeh similar in that everything is saved and opposite in that- with scenes you basically state what you don't want to recall but with presets you state what you want to recall - have no problem with this in fact quite like it -to do this for scenes this would probably be very long winded - unless you saved a sort of default only recall such and such when the scene was saved - but probably make it even more complex - and undoubtedly many would then say they want it the other way round.
Still would like separate libraries though!!!

Ahh, yes, obviously, silly me. Have never given it much thought beyond the fact that I would like some of my presets to be permanently set to only recall a specific part, to have resets like "Vocal EQ", "Backing dynamic", "Liz 535", "Jenny 58", but it is a minor thing.
Sorting the library by type kind of gives you separation, works for me, but then I don't have many presets yet.

 

[Nick Davis]

Re: X32 (Tech Talk) scene safes - (& presets)

Sorting the library by type kind of gives you separation, works for me, but then I don't have many presets yet.

How do you sort it it by type? - ( actually I think someone mentioned this - but to be able to save and reload a whole preset library would be pretty useful)

 

[Declan Slater]

"easy to implement" suggestion to make Ipad app better.

I'd like to suggest two easy changes to make the IPad app and XiControl better.

Ipad app: Please make it so that when you hit the dca screen, it automatically acts like it hits the home button first, so that it skips the empty screen with no faders on it...

Please let me explain, if you are working on a channel, eq or something... Hit the dca screen (top rightmost window). Your now looking at a mostly blank page with just one fader (the channel you were working on) - frustrating... To get to where you need to go, you must first hit the home button, then hit the dca page...

XiControl (and the console too): Please make it so that when you hit the sends on faders button, make your changes, and hit it again to get out, it should put you back to whatever page you were in when you hit the sends on fader button, and not leave you stranded in the aux master section...

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't these changes be easy to implement? Does anyone else get bothered by these little things? Maybe I'm the only one, and if that's the case, I'll zip my lip...