X32 Discussion

[Billy Peiffer]

Re: Scene File for Per

Well if I had to guess I would say it's user error! LOL I have been known to screw up before! Lot's of times!

 

[Dieter Belletz]

Re: xControl crawling to a halt

Dell Inspiron mini Notebook running XP

 

[Eric Eskam]

Re: Sticky Buttons

That's the thing though, a warranty that takes your paddle away when you are up shit creek is not really a warranty that means anything to users that rely on actually having to use the product.

Spraying any kind of liquid inside a digital console does not seem like any kind of solution at all, warranty or not.

And unlike a digital console, I can fire up the iPad or PC and have full control - so if a physical control goes down it's not necessarily a literal show stopper.

If it blows up, then I'll be happy to send it back and get it replaced, but shipping across a continent and waiting two to three weeks to solve some non-terminal problem, possibly paying for expensive shipping, then owning and using the board potentially becomes more of a hazzle than it is worth.

At this price get two. Or build a relationship with your local supplier so that you have access to repair loaners. Ironically at this price it's sometimes harder to do that than when you paid $10K plus for a board (pesky margin and all that). What to do...

I do appreciate that no manufacturer will let you start spraying stuff into their equipment, and most of us will reserve the self repair and home cooking to equipment that is out of warranty, but parting with vital equipment for a long period to solve minor problems sure is a pita.

Sure it is, but again we are in a whole new ballgame for price. I intend to pick up a core to have as a backup along with our X32 when we are ready to finally get ours. Plus I can use the core in our smaller room to start training the next batch of volunteers. Not having the physical control surface isn't ideal, but the PC and iPad apps are similar enough it shouldn't hinder our overall strategy too much.

 

[Eric Eskam]

Re: Sticky Buttons

Keep the old desk as a spare is my message to them. Because of any digital desk being able to fail. Not very likely but it can happen. Don't sell it for the extra cash just keep it doing nothing. It's always good to know the show can go on..

Keep the old desk is just as appropriate with analog. We moved into a new building and got a new desk. There was talk of selling off the old one to recoup some cost. I and another recommended we keep the old desk "in case" - it's saved us a couple of times.

Just as important in having a backup desk (analog OR digital) - have a plan worked out with a checklist of what you need to do to swap to your backup in an emergency. It doesn't have to be complicated; there is a point of diminishing returns. But if you at least make a simple punch list ahead of time if you do find yourself in an emergency situation and the adrenaline is flowing (and/or people around you are raising a stink for obvious reasons) you'll have a much better chance of success. The first time we needed to switch out to our backup, luckily it happened during a practice. After that fiasco (turns out we didn't remember everything as well as we thought we would!) some basic documentation was created. Years later when we again needed to switch to our backup things went MUCH more smoothly.

 

[Eric Eskam]

Re: X32 Noisy Cooling Fan

While trying to find a suitable UPS, my associate is leaning towards a power conditioner instead. He believes that a UPS will only kick into battery if power is completely lost, and some UPS's don't don't handle over voltages (surges), though the Liebert Powersure Psi PS1000RT3-120, I'm looking at seems to include AVR.

These days I pay the 30% or so and go for "double conversion" or "online" UPS's. They have two invertors. One charges the battery. The second takes the battery and powers the gear. Your gear is always running off the battery, there is never any worry about transfer speed. And since your equipment is never running off the mains, AVR just happens as a byproduct of this design.

B.E.S.T. used to make the best UPS's (pardon the pun) but APC bought them a while back. A few of the APC models used to be easily descernable B.E.S.T. designs, but these days I can't tell if any of their current ones are previous B.E.S.T. designs. And since APC has been coasting on their name for some time now I no longer recommend them. Liebert is a great brand and if you can afford them you could do allot worse. I have a hard time justifying brands like Liebert and luckily I've had really good luck with CyberPower, a brand that seems to be in the Behringer sweet spot of features and price.

The problem with UPS's, even with AVR, is if the power gets too bad you will switch to battery. I've seen online UPS's hang on where AVR UPS's would drop to battery, then run out of juice and finally die. The online wasn't getting enough to keep up with the battery, but what it could suck from the crappy mains power keept it alive until the gig was over. I hate extension cords...

 

[Eric Eskam]

Re: UPS

My guess is that the caps in the power-supply are rather small compared to what you might find on older equipment (there are good reasons for not using big caps from both a design and cost point of view), and thus no reserve to cover a missed cycle or even half-cycle.

There's lots of empty space inside the X32. It's too bad Behringer can't offer an option to integrate a battery directly inside the X32. Would cut down on the outboard gear and no need for an inverter - since that's what's the power supply is for! I realize it's not as simple as just plugging a battery in internally, but I would think the additional circuitry required to integrate a battery natively into the power supply would be pretty minimal.

Hmm...

 

[Eric Eskam]

Re: UPS v Power conditioner

Right. Just to be clear though... a regular ups that "kicks in" the battery when needed, and does so within 20 milliseconds or less, will work fine with the x32, so the extra cost of those types of ups systems is unjustified.

Until you get a situation where the switching UPS doesn't switch at it's advertised rate.

If I have sensitive equipment that requires a UPS for any transitive issues that "extra expense" is the exact insurance I want. It may work for you most of the time - but if it could fail with some wonky condition you can't predict (the reason for the insurance in the first place) isn't that a bit silly?

These days the price difference is minimal. Online UPSs, at least ones I would spend my money on, used to be double the cost of switching UPSs. Not so these days. You can dismiss the expense as unjustified and who knows you may never be in a situation where the difference matters. Many people here run X32's without UPS's. I guess I'm just paranoid having been bitten by wonky power issues with electronic equipment over the years so I have no problem getting the best protection I can. Once bitten and all that...

 

[Eric Eskam]

Re: It's arrived

What I never do is put myself above someone else because I have more knowledge than them. I never saw a post and thought "I'm too smart to give him or her that simple answer". I get the fact that people don't read when they should. I am not one of those people. I'm just saying if you don't want to help me then don't.

Exactly. I don't know why people feel compelled to try to modify others behavior. If you think the question is trivial or beneath you, then just move on. No harm, no foul. If no one answers then the poster will figure it out. There won't be a plethora of posts discussion the "problem" of posting a stupid question since it will never have started in the first place.

the perpetual "read the manual" whining in many newsgroups and sites relating to Linux/Unix is one of the reasons I never went out of my way to learn it. People complain about the Apple zealots - they are nothing compared to the *nix attitude of "I'm a uber geek god because I memorized a bunch of inconsistent crap that was made inconsistent on purpose so that we can show our superior memory skilz coupled with our fierce independence and lack of social skills/cooperation that standardization and logical organization would require". Meh.

No doubt, Tim is a smart guy and I have oodles of respect for his technical prowess and experience. But for goodness sake, this is the JV forum. And for those who say even more reason to point out RTFM - really? Do you have or did you have kids? Any teenagers? Did they ever listen anything common sense related that you told them or did they have to stub their toe and figure out the what should be basic stuff on their own? Same thing here....

 

[Eric Eskam]

Re: Wiki Manual

I'm not a Wiki user, so I go into this with very limited knowledge of the format, but have at least got 35 years of experience (on and off) writing technical documentation, standard operating procedures and instructional documents, so I know what a nightmare it can be and how many pitfalls there are.

RE: complexity and dedication, no doubt it's a big job! I think you will like Wiki editing. There's some fairly simple markup language (Uli - I hope your team is looking at MediaWiki or one of it's derivatives!) and tons of flexibility. Plus complete history of all edits with full roll back. It's a tech writers dream from a version control standpoint. When we get our X32 I'll help as much as I can. Over the years I've found the fastest way to learn new technology is write documentation for it and/or provide support; that's why I like hanging out in these threads. reading the questions/answers provides far more than I could ever get out of most manuals.

 

[Per Søvik]

Re: Wiki Manual

RE: complexity and dedication, no doubt it's a big job! I think you will like Wiki editing. There's some fairly simple markup language (Uli - I hope your team is looking at MediaWiki or one of it's derivatives!) and tons of flexibility. Plus complete history of all edits with full roll back. It's a tech writers dream from a version control standpoint. When we get our X32 I'll help as much as I can. Over the years I've found the fastest way to learn new technology is write documentation for it and/or provide support; that's why I like hanging out in these threads. reading the questions/answers provides far more than I could ever get out of most manuals.

It is MediaWiki. so no worries there. I take it you have hereby volunteered. ~~:smile:

 

[Joseph Schuurman]

Re: X32 Noisy Cooling Fan

These days I pay the 30% or so and go for "double conversion" or "online" UPS's. They have two invertors. One charges the battery. The second takes the battery and powers the gear. Your gear is always running off the battery, there is never any worry about transfer speed. And since your equipment is never running off the mains, AVR just happens as a byproduct of this design.

B.E.S.T. used to make the best UPS's (pardon the pun) but APC bought them a while back. A few of the APC models used to be easily descernable B.E.S.T. designs, but these days I can't tell if any of their current ones are previous B.E.S.T. designs. And since APC has been coasting on their name for some time now I no longer recommend them. Liebert is a great brand and if you can afford them you could do allot worse. I have a hard time justifying brands like Liebert and luckily I've had really good luck with CyberPower, a brand that seems to be in the Behringer sweet spot of features and price.

The problem with UPS's, even with AVR, is if the power gets too bad you will switch to battery. I've seen online UPS's hang on where AVR UPS's would drop to battery, then run out of juice and finally die. The online wasn't getting enough to keep up with the battery, but what it could suck from the crappy mains power keept it alive until the gig was over. I hate extension cords...

Thanks for the detailed explaination, sadely, now I wish I got an online UPS. We have a Liebert PS1000RT3-XR120 on the way, hopefully it solves our problem, but scanning the manual, it definitely is an in-line UPS, and actually advertises "wider input window" as a good thing. The last week, we've been running the UPS through one of our "cheap" power conditioners, and the problem has been happening still, not *quite* as bad, just a pop, and a moderate effects overload which dissipates after 10 seconds (argg), in our case, turning both the effects faders to zero, along with each effects send to zero avoids the feedback, and allows us to continue the session without having to do a reboot. The UPS should arrive next week, so I'll know then.

If it doesn't, I'll return it, and look for an "online" one.

 

[Tim McCulloch]

Re: It's arrived

\
No doubt, Tim is a smart guy and I have oodles of respect for his technical prowess and experience. But for goodness sake, this is the JV forum. And for those who say even more reason to point out RTFM - really? Do you have or did you have kids? Any teenagers? Did they ever listen anything common sense related that you told them or did they have to stub their toe and figure out the what should be basic stuff on their own? Same thing here....

Teenagers? Why, I used to have 10 at a time! Boys 14-18 who were involved in the court system... I've had more than a little adolescent-raising experience in my former, brief life as a halfway house counselor.

Perhaps it's my experience as a high school and college debater, but learning how to do research and glean information from primary, written sources is the initial way of learning almost any/everything. Posting a question on a forum is not research, it is not learning. It's asking others to be a living Wiki. This is a community of live sound folks, and yes, helping each other is part of being a community, but if you don't make an attempt at your own homework, why should anyone help with the answers?

Eric, I've answered scores of questions on SFN and PSW forums simply by RTFM. If I can do that, so could the OP.

 

[Eric Eskam]

Re: Wiki Manual

It is MediaWiki. so no worries there. I take it you have hereby volunteered. ~~:smile:

Yup - just need to get a console first. Should be within the next couple of months. And I should be active as I have MUCH to learn from everyone!

 

[Eric Eskam]

Re: It's arrived

Perhaps it's my experience as a high school and college debater, but learning how to do research and glean information from primary, written sources is the initial way of learning almost any/everything.

1) Your not in school, or on a debate team, but an open internet forum
2) I don't disagree with you about doing research - but you aren't going to teach people that by yelling the equivalent of "search you idiot"
3) Trying to change other peoples behavior is a recipe for frustration combined with your approach makes you come off as condescending and arrogant (ha - many would same the same about me no doubt)

Anyway I wasn't aiming at you so much as just making a statement and commiserating with the OP on this topic; on another forum I had just ran into the same behavior earlier this morning and felt compelled to add in my own two cents. More venting than anything. I in no way expect you to change; you probably couldn't if you wanted to anyway. Much like while I've dramatically cut down I still spout off myself from time to time (like this rathole). Now that I've said my peace (twice!) I defer to point 3 and am done with this subject (here anyway).

 

[Michael Berries]

Re: xControl crawling to a halt

Dell Inspiron mini Notebook running XP

ATOM processor?

 

[Per Søvik]

Re: It's arrived

Posting a question on a forum is not research, it is not learning.

Of course it is. I agree that some questions show more than a hint of lazyness, but asking a question is an active form of learning. Of course people should do their homework first, but asking questions is sometimes the only way forward. Not everybody is good at asking the right question, but equally there are a lot of people on forums that doesn't know how to answer a question either.
"Read the manual!", "Pay a pro!", "Buy a new rig!", "Take a course!" There are lots of answers that crop up again and again, invariably never a solution to the OP's problem, or at least not a viable solution there and then.

But, by all means, let's stop asking questions and confine ourselves to sharing opinions and see how far that gets us

 

[Daniel Levi]

Re: UPS

There's lots of empty space inside the X32. It's too bad Behringer can't offer an option to integrate a battery directly inside the X32. Would cut down on the outboard gear and no need for an inverter - since that's what's the power supply is for! I realize it's not as simple as just plugging a battery in internally, but I would think the additional circuitry required to integrate a battery natively into the power supply would be pretty minimal.

Hmm...

If you could work out what the voltages used in the console (probably +/-15 v for the opamps, 12 volts for most other things and 5 or 3.3v for the digital electronics) were then it might not be too difficult (especially if the screen is LED backlit and thus no high voltage inverter). If you could add some large capacitors to smooth the AC side of things you could possibly just use a relay to do the switching (connected to the mains input so that it switched when mains was lost). Don't forget that most alarm systems have a primary ac power backed up by an internal rechargeable battery and they seem to be quite simple circuits.

 

[Henry Baxter]

Re: X32 Discussion

Hello everyone
I am new to this so forgive me if I error
I am useing a x32 with protools 10 and I have noticed I have a very hard time getting a good mic signal from my vocal booth mics. Especialy my 414. Mic pres seem to be up and even when I can boost a hot signal to the 32 its hard to get a good level in P T. It must be me butt I did not have this issue using my other console and my motu 2408 always had a good signal. Any help out there?
HANK

 

[Misja Hoen]

Re: Sticky Buttons

Keep the old desk is just as appropriate with analog. We moved into a new building and got a new desk. There was talk of selling off the old one to recoup some cost. I and another recommended we keep the old desk "in case" - it's saved us a couple of times.

Just as important in having a backup desk (analog OR digital) - have a plan worked out with a checklist of what you need to do to swap to your backup in an emergency. It doesn't have to be complicated; there is a point of diminishing returns. But if you at least make a simple punch list ahead of time if you do find yourself in an emergency situation and the adrenaline is flowing (and/or people around you are raising a stink for obvious reasons) you'll have a much better chance of success. The first time we needed to switch out to our backup, luckily it happened during a practice. After that fiasco (turns out we didn't remember everything as well as we thought we would!) some basic documentation was created. Years later when we again needed to switch to our backup things went MUCH more smoothly.

Surely knowing what to do when switching to your backup is a clever idea in all sences. :razz:

 

[Billy Peiffer]

Re: Scene File for Per

Per, There was nothing wrong with the Desk. I had a chance to get on it tonight personally! The Effects worked just fine without being assigned to the LR. Thanks for the help! Thanks Gunner as well!