X32 Discussion

Re: Scene File for Per

Ok, I'm embarrassed to say I can't figure out how to do something pretty basic.

I'm trying to set up my x32 similar to the youtube video where Dave Rat explains his mixing strategy. Dave Rat - Live Sound Mixing Strategy - YouTube

1 - I'm using stereo groups, drum group, gtr group, vocal group, etc... I'm trying to assign the FX (vocal reverb and vocal delay in my case) to the vocal subgroup and not the main L/R output, such that when I raise or lower the group, the FX follow. I don't see how to do this.

2 - Is it possible to unlink the stereo compressor on the groups? Dave Rat explains these should not be linked.

Individual channels are assigned to their respective group(s) and not 'double bused' to the main L/R output. I was under the impression double busing on a digital board was a bad idea, even with a board with low latency.

Sorry to waste you time with a basic routing question but I'm just not seeing it.

Mike



Billy Peiffer said:
Per, There was nothing wrong with the Desk. I had a chance to get on it tonight personally! The Effects worked just fine without being assigned to the LR. Thanks for the help! Thanks Gunner as well!
Click to expand...
 
Re: Scene File for Per

Michael Glenn said:
Ok, I'm embarrassed to say I can't figure out how to do something pretty basic.

I'm trying to set up my x32 similar to the youtube video where Dave Rat explains his mixing strategy. Dave Rat - Live Sound Mixing Strategy - YouTube

1 - I'm using stereo groups, drum group, gtr group, vocal group, etc... I'm trying to assign the FX (vocal reverb and vocal delay in my case) to the vocal subgroup and not the main L/R output, such that when I raise or lower the group, the FX follow. I don't see how to do this.

2 - Is it possible to unlink the stereo compressor on the groups? Dave Rat explains these should not be linked.

Individual channels are assigned to their respective group(s) and not 'double bused' to the main L/R output. I was under the impression double busing on a digital board was a bad idea, even with a board with low latency.

Sorry to waste you time with a basic routing question but I'm just not seeing it.

Mike
Click to expand...
1) Select the 'aux in/usb fx returns' on the layer buttons at the left.
Select the fx channel(s) and make sure that they don't get sent to LR-bus by de-selecting the stereo bus.
Select 'sends on fader'.
On your right fader group select the proper bus for you vocal fx return and set the correct fx fader(s) to unity(?).

2) In the setup->global menu de-select the 'dynamics link'. Note, this is a global parameter so it will affect -all- of your linked channels.

3) Have fun!
 
Re: Scene File for Per

Michael Glenn said:
Ok, I'm embarrassed to say I can't figure out how to do something pretty basic.

I'm trying to set up my x32 similar to the youtube video where Dave Rat explains his mixing strategy.
Click to expand...

1. Just as you do with the individual channels, assign the fx-returns to subgroup in the sends tab and unassign to LR in the main tab

2. In the SETUP global tab, uncheck Dynamics Link under link preferences.

And you're done :)~:)~:smile:

EDIT: (or what Robert wrote, your choice)

EDIT 2: If you want to double bus, as far as I can remember, you are OK as long as you don't insert anything, so you can have your NY compressioun or whatever. One way to double bus is of course to send to two subgroups and then balance those two subgroups for added control with the paralell compression or whatever else you'd use double busing for.
 
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Re: X32 Discussion

Well, mines just arrived, gonna have a play this evening, got my first production with it next week, hope I can transfer the scenes I've created on Xcontrol across to it, It'll save some time.

shiny shiny 8)~:cool:~:cool:
 
Re: S16 output problem

Andreas Kormann said:
Here is the scene-file I use (I renamed it to .txt because uploading .scn is vorbidden :(~:-(~:sad:)
View attachment 6534
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Yikes!

This is the first time I've ever looked at a scene file. Would it not make more sense to store this data using XML rather than plain text? At least then it would be readable at a glance.

I guess I should have brought that point up BEFORE the console was designed. :)
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Quick question: I searched on the manual and cannot find it, but I remember someone sad on a x32 webinar that you can connect xcontrol via usb (the usb port located at remote control rear panel). I've tried to connect but nothing happens.
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Henry Baxter said:
Hello everyone
I am new to this so forgive me if I error
I am useing a x32 with protools 10 and I have noticed I have a very hard time getting a good mic signal from my vocal booth mics. Especialy my 414. Mic pres seem to be up and even when I can boost a hot signal to the 32 its hard to get a good level in P T. It must be me butt I did not have this issue using my other console and my motu 2408 always had a good signal. Any help out there?
HANK
Click to expand...

Hi Henry,
You just have to press setup - preamps tab and adjust the gain of sound card preamps. (it's a different gain than the channel gain from channel strip - config/preamp section on the console) you will have all the gain in the world :D. By default, all my A/D gains was -2 so this is a low gain setting.

(this is my first aiding post) I'm in a hard learning process as this is my first true console (after a analog 8 channel Xenix). Hope that was the right answer for your question. So please everyone, correct me if I'm wrong.

P.S. I still cannot figure how to record from x32 to DAW bypasing channel preamp and only use the A/D gain. Any suggestions out there please?
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Dragos Strat said:
P.S. I still cannot figure how to record from x32 to DAW bypasing channel preamp and only use the A/D gain. Any suggestions out there please?
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Maybe I was not clear enough in my previous answer to you question ( see page 303 of this thread). The preamps of either the local inputs, the local auxes or the S16 inputs are not part of the channels. This is very important. If you select, lets say, the local inputs 1-32 as source of the card outs at the routing page, the signals which comes inthe desk via the local inputs will be routed to the cards out directly after the A/D conversion. No channel processing takes place.

In short words: XLR input->head amp with the gain->A/D Convertor->card out. Thats it. There is no way to eliminate one of these steps. And all other digital consoles, audio interfaces and so on have these steps also.

BTW: the gain of the head amp can be adjusted on the setup page, as you mentioned in your post.

edit:
Try to assign the channel sources to NONE at the channels config page for several or all channels. The scribble script dispays colors will turn to black. This is normal. Now you cannot do anything eith the incomming signals on the X32 itself. But, .... You can still use the X32 as a A/D convertor for your DAW. This will show you that input and channels are not the same.

and, every console has preamps. But these preamps are not the same as the super tuper designer box of wonders you can buy for 4000€ and up for one channel strip. In these boxes happens some "magic" nobody knows exactly what it is, but it must be wonderful because the box is so expensive;-)
 
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Re: X32 Discussion

Klaus Mock said:
edit:
Try to assign the channel sources to NONE at the channels config page for several or all channels. The scribble script dispays colors will turn to black. This is normal. Now you cannot do anything eith the incomming signals on the X32 itself. But, .... You can still use the X32 as a A/D convertor for your DAW. This will show you that input and channels are not the same.
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This I was missing!!! I was just writing this, but you posted first :) :
" So... if I set routing on local input 1-8 - local 1-8 output (for recording) , A/D gain goes up to +45,5 db and its linked with the gain knob on the config/preamp section. If I roll this knob all the way up, the value in front of push rotary encoder rise till +60db. what is this extra 14,5 db? Where did they appeared from? Maybe from channel preamp witch is also active/linked with A/D gain?"

Now with the Source OFF I have the signal in DAW but nothing in console. Also, as you mention it, the scribble strips is black. My desire was achieved :D. But in a real world scenario I would need to name the channel and use the fader in order to record out of the box :D. Maybe I ask to mouch or maybe I'm on a unusual (wrong) way of thinking of how to do a professional recording with x32 to daw. What is your usual way of doing a recording regarding preamp thing?
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Dragos Strat said:
Now with the Source OFF I have the signal in DAW but nothing in console. Also, as you mention it, the scribble strips is black. My desire was achieved :D. But in a real world scenario I would need to name the channel and use the fader in order to record out of the box :D. Maybe I ask to mouch or maybe I'm on a unusual (wrong) way of thinking of how to do a professional recording with x32 to daw. What is your usual way of doing a recording regarding preamp thing?
Click to expand...

I hope you are now not on a wrong way. The sample I gave in my previous post to set the source off was just to demonstrate the principle. No matter whether you turn the source on a channel on or off, the output to the DAW will be the same as long as you connect the output to the input an not to, lets say the local out or the p16 out.

About gain issues I found this at the behringer community forum: Another Gain value on X32 and S16 . Hope that makes it more clear for you.
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Klaus Mock said:
About gain issues I found this at the behringer community forum: Another Gain value on X32 and S16 . Hope that makes it more clear for you.
Click to expand...

I've been trying not to get myself into this discussion, because frankly I don't have anything to contribute. This might be either because I don't have a clue about what the OP wants or the OP don't have a clue about what he wants, and as long as I can't be sure which it is, I'll keep out. Then I read Joe's expanation of gain setting and I start to wonder if I am maybe totally clueless about how a preamp works, what it does and how it is controlled.
However, one thing I have come to conclude about the preamp tab is that I stay away from it, because it totally messes up everything once you start using it. If you control gains from the channel strip gain control, everything stays nice and consistent. That of course means that the preamp one is controlling is routed to the channel, but why on earth would one attempt to set gain without having it available to listen and view the meter?????? OK, I can think of some reasons, very few of them good.
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Per Søvik said:
I've been trying not to get myself into this discussion, because frankly I don't have anything to contribute. This might be either because I don't have a clue about what the OP wants or the OP don't have a clue about what he wants, and as long as I can't be sure which it is, I'll keep out. Then I read Joe's expanation of gain setting and I start to wonder if I am maybe totally clueless about how a preamp works, what it does and how it is controlled.
However, one thing I have come to conclude about the preamp tab is that I stay away from it, because it totally messes up everything once you start using it. If you control gains from the channel strip gain control, everything stays nice and consistent. That of course means that the preamp one is controlling is routed to the channel, but why on earth would one attempt to set gain without having it available to listen and view the meter?????? OK, I can think of some reasons, very few of them good.
Click to expand...
The 'simple' explanation is that there is two gain stages combined into one - One digital stage and one analog stage.

The analog gain stage has coarse steps. Each step is 2.5dB as you can see in the setup-->preamp section of the x32.

To cope with that coarse stepping berry included a digital gain stage that fill in the blanks within those 2.5dB.

When you turn that gain control on the x32 it will combine both these gain stages into one single entity. This is also why you may hear zipper noise when you quickly turn that control.

So, when 'messing' with the preamp on the lcd screen you have direct access to the analog gain stage but not the digital stage.

Do I make sense with my explanation?
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Robert Lofgren said:
The 'simple' explanation is that there is two gain stages combined into one - One digital stage and one analog stage.

The analog gain stage has coarse steps. Each step is 2.5dB as you can see in the setup-->preamp section of the x32.

To cope with that coarse stepping berry included a digital gain stage that fill in the blanks within those 2.5dB.

When you turn that gain control on the x32 it will combine both these gain stages into one single entity. This is also why you may hear zipper noise when you quickly turn that control.

So, when 'messing' with the preamp on the lcd screen you have direct access to the analog gain stage but not the digital stage.

Do I make sense with my explanation?
Click to expand...

Makes total sense and is in agreement with what I think I know. What I was getting at was that when reading Joe's explanation, one gets the impression that there is a gain stage in front of the preamp that takes care of the gain, making one wonder what the preamp actually does. I assume, and will continue to assume that the preamp gain control controls the gain feedback loop of the preamp itself.
As for gain setting with the preamp control, I admit that I in theory prefer to do it that way because it gives some kind of precise control of the gain within the preamp itself and there is no digital attenutation to confuse the issue when looking for the right setting for a particular sound (ie finding the right saturation of the preamp, there seems to be a tiny interval with some saturation before you have clipping of the AD) in a recording situation. Using it live to adjust the gain, one might find that the first click reduces the total gain by 4.5dB, kind of taking you by surprise, and I have sometimes wondered if it screws up the scenes when used while scene setting, but haven't quite been able to put my finger on it.
BTW, I believe one of the main reasons the Yamaha and the Midas (and X32) sound different when pushed is that the Yamaha preamps are able to clip the AD without any saturation in the preamp, while the Midas philosophy is to be able to push the preamps far into saturation before the output clips the AD, but this is (almost pure) speculation on my part.
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Per Søvik said:
but why on earth would one attempt to set gain without having it available to listen and view the meter?????? OK, I can think of some reasons, very few of them good.
Click to expand...

My main reason was a studio recording scenario where I wanted to record the instruments as dryer as possible using only A/D gain. After the recording process, I will return the signals back to daw, and use on them all the bells and whistles that x32 offer, including preamp channel gain. I think is cleaner to record without channel gain preamp and ad it later in the mixing time.

Reading Joe's post I understood that even with source enabled there is no channel gain, only A/D gain. The extra 14,5 db its also digitally expanded.

quote from Joe's post
"This is further augmented by a digital trim that interpolates and expands the range..."
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Dragos Strat said:
My main reason was a studio recording scenario where I wanted to record the instruments as dryer as possible using only A/D gain. After the recording process, I will return the signals back to daw, and use on them all the bells and whistles that x32 offer, including preamp channel gain.
Click to expand...

You see, this is where I don't follow you, and was/is thinking that you are confused, and don't really understand what you are seaking.

The signal is going through only one preamp, and by preamp I am referring to the analog bit of circuitry that takes a balanced signal and simply amplifies it up to a level that is compatible with the inputs of the AD-converter. If one thinks of a preamp that does anything else, like a free-standing "preamp" that also have filters etc., than one have a notion of a preamp that doesn't fit this scenario. The "A/D-gain" (whatever that means) is the analog gain of the signal in the preamp before the signal reaches the digital stage. After the signal is converted into digital it is possible to record it thru' the interface, and if what you are actually saying is that you want to record the signal before the gain is "corrected" by the digital part of the gain, then I both understand what you want and agree with your desire.
I don't think it makes a difference wether the input is assigned to a channel or not, I haven't noticed a difference in the gain (but it's clearly easy to miss since it would never be more than 2dB unless you are far miking with an insensitive studio microphone). It is clearly not very well documented as to when and where in the signal chain the digital interpolation/makeup gain is applied, and it certainly allows for some headscratching when there are inconsistencies that are not immediately easy to explain.
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Dragos Strat said:
Hi Henry,
You just have to press setup - preamps tab and adjust the gain of sound card preamps. (it's a different gain than the channel gain from channel strip - config/preamp section on the console) you will have all the gain in the world :D. By default, all my A/D gains was -2 so this is a low gain setting.
Click to expand...
No, this is wrong!

The preamp gain you talk about is included in the channel gain. You can verify this by turning the channel gain and watch the preamp gain jump every 2.5dB.

(this is my first aiding post) I'm in a hard learning process as this is my first true console (after a analog 8 channel Xenix). Hope that was the right answer for your question. So please everyone, correct me if I'm wrong.
Click to expand...
You are hereby corrected ;-)

P.S. I still cannot figure how to record from x32 to DAW bypasing channel preamp and only use the A/D gain. Any suggestions out there please?
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you really need to understand what we are trying to tell you - You can never bypass the channel preamp. It is needed to set the correct level into the a/d. There is no gain in the a/d to control. That would be only a digital gain if it were to be controlled.

All mixers have some preamp on its inputs. It doesn't matter if it's a mic or line input.

On the x32 you have no reason to bypass any preamp. Your daw will record the signal right after the a/d and when you return the signal from your daw into the x32 it never enters the preamp again - Ever!

Now, go and record some stuff and be very happy about the sound from your x32 because you are overthinking it...
 
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