X32 Discussion

[Chase McKnight]

Re: Bus Pre-Configuration

Hello,
First gig with the X32 + 2 S16. Really amazing ! Do you know if I can create other Bus Pre-configuration. I use 0+10+6 or 4+6+6 ? Thanks.

Dear phi "phiné" tschitschmann,

If you press SELECT on a specific MixBus, then press the VIEW button in the Config/Preamp section, you can then change the "All Channel Sends Pre Configuration". You would do this for each MixBus. Hope this helps!

Kind regards,

Chase McKnight
Jr. Admin, Care
MUSIC Group

 

[Shane Presley]

Re: X32 is Shipping

Dear Shane,

The replacement desk was shipped out yesterday. Please let me know when you get it! Thank you for your support.


Kind regards,

Chase McKnight
Jr. Admin, Care
MUSIC Group

I have to admit folks...the behringer care team has been very pro active in helping me with my desk. The first time it tanked they wanted to do a swap,, but I wanted to keep my new desk and just have it serviced locally... Obviously the local retailer didnt fix it properly and now that it failed the same way, it was time to get a fully qc'd version from Vegas, so that is what Ian, Se'rita, Chase and the rest of the care team have been doing since I reported the issue. I hope to see the replacement desk before my show on sat, but there was a day lost to memorial day. However even on monday chase and Ian answered me via email to tell me they would look after me the following day. Thanks again behringer, you hope to not have these issues and my faith is shaken, but hopefully will allow me to trust the console again. I will be carrying a spare now, but thanks for getting the ball rolling. Sp

 

[Robert Lofgren]

Re: Aux Out Whine

Hi Robert,

Don't know about this; are you simply plugging headphones into the output? I'd guess that there isn't enough gain going on to make it audible. The whine on the aux out exists regardless of any gain setting, whereas the monitor and headphones have it pre-gain setting, i.e., the pots need to be maxed to hear it. On the aux out, it's there when directly plugging into the connectors, but at a low yet irritating level. I'm connecting directly to a Meyer UPJ-1P in all cases, not using headphones.

Yes, but I also routed a TS-cable from aux-out-->aux-in for testing. I should have tried a TRS-cable but I had none available at the time.

In configurations not related to the x32 I've had issues with whine between products due to both having switched mode power supplies and noise enters via ground. You need to understand that that you create a ground loop due to chassis/audiocable ground and the electrical mains connector ground. If also stuff are rack mounted then the rack itself becomes another ground point...

And don't forget that not hearing it has been shown to not be relevant to whether or not it's there.

True, but my normal only concern is if I hear it or not ;-)

BTW, you did a post on the Behringer forum somewhere where you described the signal and clock flow over the Ethernet cable, and that has been immensely helpful to me as I plan my workshop this next weekend. You directed the viewer to the SuperMac website, which is full of interesting information.

One of the many fascinating bits is that the protocol is actually SuperMac, which is AES50 compliant. It seems a misnomer to say that the snake protocol is AES50. FWIW. [/Topic Veer]

I'm glad that I could help. I've read the complete aes50-spec and I'm very surpriced to see that no one mentions that the aes50 defines exactly what type of cable that should be used according to its specification.

I've also mapped out the ultranet pin configuration and analyzed the protocol and hoping to build myself a simple ultranet-->adat gadget ;-)

Did I mention that I'm also a tech geek )

 

[Dan Mortensen]

Re: Aux Out Whine

Hi Robert,

Yes, but I also routed a TS-cable from aux-out-->aux-in for testing. I should have tried a TRS-cable but I had none available at the time.

In configurations not related to the x32 I've had issues with whine between products due to both having switched mode power supplies and noise enters via ground. You need to understand that that you create a ground loop due to chassis/audiocable ground and the electrical mains connector ground. If also stuff are rack mounted then the rack itself becomes another ground point...

Yes, but I don't see that "ground loop" issue as being any different than when connecting any two pieces of gear. Switching power supplies seem much more ruly (the opposite of unruly) than they were 20+ years ago. The fact that the speaker I used has a switching ps is neither here nor there AFAIC. YMMV.

The relevant factor is whether or not Behringer has a fix, and I will be shortly listening to a console that has the latest/greatest fixes. I will report my opinion of what I heard after this weekend.

I'm glad that I could help. I've read the complete aes50-spec and I'm very surpriced to see that no one mentions that the aes50 defines exactly what type of cable that should be used according to its specification.

I just read it, or skimmed it, and certainly got a lot less from it than you undoubtedly did.

Regarding the specific cable, the preamble (available as a free preview) says it "(uses) ubiquitous 'Category-5' data cable", while the good part later says CAT5 is a minimum, and CAT6 is recommended, and the next sentence says shielded(screened) STB CAT6 is recommended. Apparently that thought needed two sentences.

And hey, minimum is good enough for me!

~~:smile:

I'm kind of heavily invested in the minimum, so we'll see how it works...

~:-(~:sad:

Did I mention that I'm also a tech geek )

No need to, it's obvious!

Please post pictures and description when you build your Ultranet device, that will be cool to see.

 

[Per Søvik]

Re: AES50

Talking about those pesky network cables -
I just realized that the KlarkTeknik DN9610 AES50 repeaters is a mere $250-ish, not that any of us will ever need one, but I used to think that KT didn't make anything at all that cost less than 1K.

However - , and maybe someone can explain this to me, because I'm slightly confused.
Looking at the recommendation for T568B wiring, transmitting "up" will cause the sync to arrive later than the audio due to skew between twist rates, while receiving "down" will have the sync arrive earlier than the audio. Using A-spec, you don't get the skew between signals going in the same direction, something that makes more sense to me. I was assuming that it was the round trip delay that triggered the 100m cut-off, but is the skew playing a role here also? Any networkwizzards that might offer an explanation, cause I'm curious?????

EDIT: Got the skews mixed up, corrected it.

 

[Antoon van den Oetelaar]

Re: AES50

Looking at the recommendation for T568B wiring, transmitting "up" will cause the sync to arrive earlier than the audio due to skew between twist rates, while receiving "down" will have the sync arrive after the audio. Using A-spec, you don't get the skew between signals going in the same direction, something that makes more sense to me. I was assuming that it was the round trip delay that triggered the 100m cut-off, but is the skew playing a role here also? Any networkwizzards that might offer an explanation, cause I'm curious?????

Not a network specialist, but I design pcb layouts with high speed signals. (Also LAN etc.)
For me skew is difference in time due to length differences. The difference between A and B has to my opinion nothing to do with different lengths of wires, but more how the pairs are located to each other, so more a crosstalk issue.
Off course you do have some skew, but that should be taken into account with normal connector attachment and tolerance in the receivers, I don't expect many difference in length within a pair when a good quality cable is used...

The round trip delay is something I can imagine that can be a problem. But signal degredation will be even more.
I expect that the KT repeaters do some form of signal clean up. If that's all, the round trip delay will also grow, when used. If they are more intelligent, I do expect also some added latency...

A lot of speculation going on...

 

[Per Søvik]

Re: AES50

Not a network specialist, but I design pcb layouts with high speed signals. (Also LAN etc.)
For me skew is difference in time due to length differences. The difference between A and B has to my opinion nothing to do with different lengths of wires, but more how the pairs are located to each other, so more a crosstalk issue.

OK. that makes sense.

Off course you do have some skew, but that should be taken into account with normal connector attachment and tolerance in the receivers, I don't expect many difference in length within a pair when a good quality cable is used...

Spec say .5nS/m, so you could have up tp 50nS, but it is probably not significant.

The round trip delay is something I can imagine that can be a problem. But signal degredation will be even more.
I expect that the KT repeaters do some form of signal clean up. If that's all, the round trip delay will also grow, when used. If they are more intelligent, I do expect also some added latency...

I imagine that the round trip delay is what determines if you get sync or not.
And I'm reasonably convinced that the DN9610 is more intelligent, that it buffers and syncs, so some latency is bound to happen, but probably not very much at all because it isn't mentioned in the manual as far as I can see.

A lot of speculation going on...

Yes ~:-D~:grin:

 

[Tim Darnbrough]

Re: Crackly Playback

Hi Tim,

Could you describe the precise connection sequence, including which USB port you're connected to?

Coincidentally, I just got this from someone using one of my X32's on a long-term basis; maybe it will help you??

" I had the devil of a time getting the recording to play back. Spent hours reading forums to see if anyone else was having similar difficulties. Not only would the audio playback with weird resonant distortion, any disconnection of the Firewire cable while "live" would crash my computer! Make it spontaneously restart! So there there seems to be some level of bug there. Hopefully to be fixed by a firmware update. I did finally get audio to playback by changing settings at the console. The process of changing the card from Firewire to USB and then back to Firewire seems to have cleared up the issue I was having with the distortion."

This is from someone with infinitely more knowledge of recording and computers than me.

Does that help any?

Thanks,
Dan

will give the firewire to usb thing a go, see what happens.

I'm connecting to the USB port on the card, doing all the connections, then boot up desk, then PC, as indicated in the manual (double checked that incase that was the problem, even though USB should be fine to do "live" as it were.
The desk has the latest Firmware, and using the latest drivers for the computer.
Ive been running the card in 4/8 (I think, or whatevert the smallest I/O option is) if I get a chance Ill try a different configuration.

 

[phi "phiné" tschitschmann]

Re: Bus Pre-Configuration

Thanks.

 

[Joseph Schuurman]

Re: Crackly Playback

Just been playing with my X32 prior to a get in tomorrow.
I have my PC connected via USB to the desk for playback, unfortunatly I have some "latency crackle" im trying to sort it out, ive played with the settings on the puter, but not been able to make it better or worse, any suggestions? if all else fails for this one, Ill just use my old USB module till I can sort this.

I'll be interested to hear the replies. I've just started to experiment with multi-track recording using USB. Currently I'm using a cheapie netbook, which actually seemed to keep up "fairly" well. I'm doing 13 channels to the computer no returns. On my playback, I also got some crackles, I haven't had time to investigate yet, but so far I'm thinking it's either: my netbook was pushed too hard (maybe CPU wasn't keeping up), or more likely, my levels were just a bit too hot. All my strong levels had compressors on them, but I'm not sure where the USB is getting it's line from, maybe pre-limiter/compressor? The main's were not getting any of the crackles for me.

Just to rule out the first option, what are your computer specs, did you see any 100% CPU spikes, how many tracks, what software?

 

[Dan Mortensen]

Re: AES50

OK. that makes sense.


Spec say .5nS/m, so you could have up tp 50nS, but it is probably not significant.


I imagine that the round trip delay is what determines if you get sync or not.
And I'm reasonably convinced that the DN9610 is more intelligent, that it buffers and syncs, so some latency is bound to happen, but probably not very much at all because it isn't mentioned in the manual as far as I can see.



Yes ~:-D~:grin:

Since this forum has devolved again to Cable Talk, :twisted:, here are some measurements I've done for my upcoming workshop of all the snake cables I have access to. I used the Fluke DTX-1800 that I've had for the last couple of weeks, but don't have the cool software/PC like Victor has to generate the full data output complete with graphs.

Maybe the tech geeks here can interpret it for us...

View attachment 1.pdfView attachment 2.pdfView attachment 3.pdfView attachment 4.pdf

 

[Joseph Schuurman]

Re: X32 Noisy Cooling Fan

Thanks for the detailed explaination, sadely, now I wish I got an online UPS. We have a Liebert PS1000RT3-XR120 on the way, hopefully it solves our problem, but scanning the manual, it definitely is an in-line UPS, and actually advertises "wider input window" as a good thing. The last week, we've been running the UPS through one of our "cheap" power conditioners, and the problem has been happening still, not *quite* as bad, just a pop, and a moderate effects overload which dissipates after 10 seconds (argg), in our case, turning both the effects faders to zero, along with each effects send to zero avoids the feedback, and allows us to continue the session without having to do a reboot. The UPS should arrive next week, so I'll know then.

If it doesn't, I'll return it, and look for an "online" one.

Sad news, we got the UPS, charged it overnight, plugged it in today, and within an hour we got the pop and feedback ramp. Sadly, our retailer won't take the UPS back.

Now I'm stumped, I feel like I'd like to try an online UPS, and hope for the best. My Associate is still pushing towards a good Voltage Regulator (like the Furman AR1215), pricey, especially since we're stuck with the UPS too...

Any thoughts?

 

[Uli Behringer]

X32 Expansion Cards

Dear all,

I wanted to share with you that we are about to complete the design of three expansion cards.

- Dante
- Madi
- Adat

The cards should be available around Q3/Q4.

The X32 RACK and CORE will start shipping next month from our factory and hence be in stores in July.

Warm regards

Uli

 

[Antoon van den Oetelaar]

Re: X32 Noisy Cooling Fan

Sad news, we got the UPS, charged it overnight, plugged it in today, and within an hour we got the pop and feedback ramp.

are you able to get power from a different outlet? Even if you have to use a very long power cable... I'm not that sure it's your power, allthough I know power isn't that good everywhere, compared to what we are used to.

 

[Antoon van den Oetelaar]

Re: X32 Expansion Cards

The X32 RACK and CORE will start shipping next month from our factory and hence be in stores in July.

I'm still curious if I can use a rack like a S16, so when used, I'm able to control the analog pre amp gains from the full X32.

 

[Per Søvik]

Re: AES50

Since this forum has devolved again to Cable Talk, :twisted:, here are some measurements I've done for my upcoming workshop of all the snake cables I have access to. I used the Fluke DTX-1800 that I've had for the last couple of weeks, but don't have the cool software/PC like Victor has to generate the full data output complete with graphs.

Maybe the tech geeks here can interpret it for us...

I noticed there wasn't much STP in there, but I'm going to leave interpretion to those who actually know this stuff.
I'm noting however that skew is generally very low compared to spec limits.
I also note that the Monoprice CAT5 must have been assembled wrong and I guess that is why it failed.

 

[Per Søvik]

Re: X32 Noisy Cooling Fan

Sad news, we got the UPS, charged it overnight, plugged it in today, and within an hour we got the pop and feedback ramp. Sadly, our retailer won't take the UPS back.

Now I'm stumped, I feel like I'd like to try an online UPS, and hope for the best. My Associate is still pushing towards a good Voltage Regulator (like the Furman AR1215), pricey, especially since we're stuck with the UPS too...

Any thoughts?

Does anything happen if you disconnect the UPS from the mains, or does the console then work undisturbed? If that is the case, your problem could be elsewhere.

 

[Per Søvik]

Re: X32 Expansion Cards

Dear all,

I wanted to share with you that we are about to complete the design of three expansion cards.

- Dante
- Madi
- Adat

The cards should be available around Q3/Q4.

The X32 RACK and CORE will start shipping next month from our factory and hence be in stores in July.

Brilliant, but what is happening to the recording card? Has it been shelved indefinitely?

 

[Per Søvik]

Re: X32 Expansion Cards

I'm still curious if I can use a rack like a S16, so when used, I'm able to control the analog pre amp gains from the full X32.

Doesn't look like it yet, but maybe if we all ask nicely they can include a S16 mode in the firmware at some time??? Allthough I'd rather have the X32 be able to control the Rack as extra layers. Both would be nice ~~:smile:

 

[Adam Rickets]

Re: X32 Expansion Cards

Good news on the cards
Do you have any information on the number of inputs and outputs that will be available with the Madi card?
Will it be limited to receiving and sending only 32 channels or the full 64?
If it is only 32 I presume that the choice of channels can be selected either individually or in blocks of 8 and that hopefully the unused channels can be passed from the input to the output.
Hope that makes sense.
Also what connectors are you planning to use - co-axial, fibre or RJ45? (hoping for co-axial myself !)
Keep up the good work
Adam

Dear all,

I wanted to share with you that we are about to complete the design of three expansion cards.

- Dante
- Madi
- Adat

The cards should be available around Q3/Q4.

The X32 RACK and CORE will start shipping next month from our factory and hence be in stores in July.

Warm regards

Uli