X32 Discussion

Re: Scribble strip gripe

John Chiara said:
... But the app does give access to everything if you can take the time.
Click to expand...

Not quite everything. I just used the app a few days ago and the big thing I was missing was the output delay. When aligning a system with multiple zones, having that feature on the ipad would be the bees knees. In some cases, that might even be the only thing I would want wireless control of.
 
X32 Sync Link - Beta Release

I am pleased to announce that I now have a functioning beta version of my X32 Sync Link app. :D~:-D~:grin:

This allows 2 X32's (any 2 of the family) to be linked together so that one acts as a master and the other as a slave (In effect a mirror)
By connecting via AES50 and Ethernet, it is possible replicate console changes between both devices and also configure parameters.

One big challenge has been how gain and trim are treated. With some great advice and crazy calculations from Per and initial OSC support from Kev Hunter I have been able to overcome this (Thanks guys!). By adjusting the 'trim' on the slave the gain on the master adjusts and then adjusts the trim on the slave accordingly so that all metering, compression etc mirrors the master.

You can initially sync the desks via the software or by pressing the 'Remote' button on the appropriate desk, which will also force a sync from one console to another. An alternative way is to backup the master's state to USB and restore on the slave.

I am just finalising a few bits such as how all the FX processor parameters are handled and a little around the scribble strip text sync.
Also I will add in a few options such as whether layer changes are replicated, screen views, LCD brightness etc.....

I will release the beta version over the next couple of days for anyone lucky enough to have a couple of X32's to play with. My plan is to put an initial time limit on the app (say 10 mins), purely to ensure that no one uses in a live event situation at this point. However, after some further testing (another week or so) and following any feedback I will then release version one which will be without any limitation what so ever. This will be a free app for anyone to benefit from.

A pc is required to run the small app. Testing indicates a wired connection to your router may be better rather than wireless, but this is still in development.

So, watch this space - If there is anyone who would like to test this before in it's current raw state, please PM me.
 
Re: X32 Sync Link - Beta Release

Mark Skyrme said:
I am pleased to announce that I now have a functioning beta version of my X32 Sync Link app. :D~:-D~:grin:

This allows 2 X32's (any 2 of the family) to be linked together so that one acts as a master and the other as a slave (In effect a mirror)
By connecting via AES50 and Ethernet, it is possible replicate console changes between both devices and also configure parameters.

One big challenge has been how gain and trim are treated. With some great advice and crazy calculations from Per and initial OSC support from Kev Hunter I have been able to overcome this (Thanks guys!). By adjusting the 'trim' on the slave the gain on the master adjusts and then adjusts the trim on the slave accordingly so that all metering, compression etc mirrors the master.

You can initially sync the desks via the software or by pressing the 'Remote' button on the appropriate desk, which will also force a sync from one console to another. An alternative way is to backup the master's state to USB and restore on the slave.

I am just finalising a few bits such as how all the FX processor parameters are handled and a little around the scribble strip text sync.
Also I will add in a few options such as whether layer changes are replicated, screen views, LCD brightness etc.....

I will release the beta version over the next couple of days for anyone lucky enough to have a couple of X32's to play with. My plan is to put an initial time limit on the app (say 10 mins), purely to ensure that no one uses in a live event situation at this point. However, after some further testing (another week or so) and following any feedback I will then release version one which will be without any limitation what so ever. This will be a free app for anyone to benefit from.

A pc is required to run the small app. Testing indicates a wired connection to your router may be better rather than wireless, but this is still in development.

So, watch this space - If there is anyone who would like to test this before in it's current raw state, please PM me.
Click to expand...

Excellent work!
 
Re: X32 at a show

Antoon van den Oetelaar said:
Did you stack 2 different pa systems in each other?
Click to expand...

No, The middle box is the original and the outer boxes are copy's of the middle box.. We took apart the middle box and spec it out and made copy's of it.

There the old Peavey DTH4 from the early 90's great sound box once you EQ all the low mid crap and mid honk out of it.. there a great long throw box in smaller rooms they can be a little pain in the butt..

But in big rooms or outside there a great box.. for what they are.. We have 6 of them and going to build 2 more so we have a total of 8 tops. but soon i'm going to buy the DB sound T4's
they have a great sound and there a 3way box.. alot of the line arrays are only a 2way box..

:)

Randy
 
Re: X32 Sync Link - Beta Release

Mark Skyrme said:
I am pleased to announce that I now have a functioning beta version of my X32 Sync Link app. :D~:-D~:grin:

This allows 2 X32's (any 2 of the family) to be linked together so that one acts as a master and the other as a slave (In effect a mirror)
By connecting via AES50 and Ethernet, it is possible replicate console changes between both devices and also configure parameters.

One big challenge has been how gain and trim are treated. With some great advice and crazy calculations from Per and initial OSC support from Kev Hunter I have been able to overcome this (Thanks guys!). By adjusting the 'trim' on the slave the gain on the master adjusts and then adjusts the trim on the slave accordingly so that all metering, compression etc mirrors the master.

You can initially sync the desks via the software or by pressing the 'Remote' button on the appropriate desk, which will also force a sync from one console to another. An alternative way is to backup the master's state to USB and restore on the slave.

I am just finalising a few bits such as how all the FX processor parameters are handled and a little around the scribble strip text sync.
Also I will add in a few options such as whether layer changes are replicated, screen views, LCD brightness etc.....

I will release the beta version over the next couple of days for anyone lucky enough to have a couple of X32's to play with. My plan is to put an initial time limit on the app (say 10 mins), purely to ensure that no one uses in a live event situation at this point. However, after some further testing (another week or so) and following any feedback I will then release version one which will be without any limitation what so ever. This will be a free app for anyone to benefit from.

A pc is required to run the small app. Testing indicates a wired connection to your router may be better rather than wireless, but this is still in development.

So, watch this space - If there is anyone who would like to test this before in it's current raw state, please PM me.
Click to expand...

This sounds like a very cool project. Unfortunate that AES50 still needs to be used. Would have been great to do everything via ethernet, as that would have given the opportunity to go completely wireless with the slave. Maybe it could be done with a PC on each end.
 
Re: Scribble strip gripe

Eric Eskam said:
Huh? I still have my iPad 1 and I easily get 5 to 6 hours of hard use - with at least 25% remaining. It hasn't been coddled by any stretch. And even if the battery goes bad, Apple will swap it for $100 just like the iPhone. Indeed, you'll more than likely walk out the door the same day with a refurb device. The battery would be the least of my worries. The piddly 512MB of RAM is more a concern. Unless B programmers get really lazy that shouldn't be an issue for their iPad apps.

Personally for a little more I would get a refurb iPad Mini, but the app on a full size iPad is very nice.
Click to expand...

LiPO batteries are only useful for a certain number of charge / re-charge hours (not recharge cycles). They do well up to around 80% of useful life, then drop very fast to useless.

I was not aware that Apple would refurb the battery for $100.00. That does seem like a pretty good way to ensure your investment vs. purchasing a new iPad.
 
Re: X32 Sync Link - Beta Release

Brian jojade said:
This sounds like a very cool project. Unfortunate that AES50 still needs to be used. Would have been great to do everything via ethernet, as that would have given the opportunity to go completely wireless with the slave. Maybe it could be done with a PC on each end.
Click to expand...

This will be down to Behringer to change their firmware as the only way I can get meters to work at the moment by it receiving a AES50 connection. If the desk could replicate the LEDs then all it would need is an wifi access point acting in client mode and the slave could be wireless too.

In the meantime it will achieve what I set out to do, just hope a few others may find it useful for now.
 
Re: X32 as a monitor desk

I'm assuming that someone has set theris up as a mon desk. I used mine for the first time as a strict mon desk the other day, set the solo to master, but it had some wierd behavior that I wanted to run past you guys. I had to take all the L/R assingments off the channels so that they would only appear in the wedge when I was soloing - is this normal or do I not have something else "set". Also for the listen wedge output I used the montior L output (xlr), but I would have thought that I could have still used output 16, and just set it to L or R. That wouldn't work when pressing solo to hear something, so again I assume I haven't set something up correctly - I apologize I don't have the show file to post, but I'll get a copy and post it. My guy didn't like using it as a mon desk, but I'm sure it's just old school meets new school.
 
Re: X32 as a monitor desk

Shane Presley said:
I'm assuming that someone has set theris up as a mon desk. I used mine for the first time as a strict mon desk the other day, set the solo to master, but it had some wierd behavior that I wanted to run past you guys. I had to take all the L/R assingments off the channels so that they would only appear in the wedge when I was soloing - is this normal or do I not have something else "set". Also for the listen wedge output I used the montior L output (xlr), but I would have thought that I could have still used output 16, and just set it to L or R. That wouldn't work when pressing solo to hear something, so again I assume I haven't set something up correctly - I apologize I don't have the show file to post, but I'll get a copy and post it. My guy didn't like using it as a mon desk, but I'm sure it's just old school meets new school.
Click to expand...

Hi Shane,

You have overlapping problems here.

Yes, if you try to use output 16 when it is set to R, you will need to unassign the L-R to get things out of the wedge, but you will not then get the solo'd thing in the wedge, as you found. Once you moved the connector to the Mon XLR, you still get the L-R-assigned things in the listen wedge by default until a solo button is pressed, since the Mon output is listening to whatever it is told to Monitor. There should be a screen in the Monitor/Talkback section that lets you set the default on what the Mon is monitoring.

To avoid the officially-non-existant whine on the monitor XLR, you can assign any of XLR's 1-16 to receive the Mon output, and connect there.

HTH,
Dan
 
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Re: X32 Sync Link - Beta Release

Mark Skyrme said:
This will be down to Behringer to change their firmware as the only way I can get meters to work at the moment by it receiving a AES50 connection. If the desk could replicate the LEDs then all it would need is an wifi access point acting in client mode and the slave could be wireless too.

In the meantime it will achieve what I set out to do, just hope a few others may find it useful for now.
Click to expand...

It would be AWESOME if they would update their firmware to just have this built in as a feature. Your software proves that it is technically feasible. The question remains is there enough demand for such a thing?
 
Re: X32 as a monitor desk

Dan Mortensen said:
Hi Shane,

You have overlapping problems here.

Yes, if you try to use output 16 when it is set to R, you will need to unassign the L-R to get things out of the wedge, but you will not then get the solo'd thing in the wedge, as you found. Once you moved the connector to the Mon XLR, you still get the L-R-assigned things in the listen wedge by default until a solo button is pressed, since the Mon output is listening to whatever it is told to Monitor. There should be a screen in the Monitor/Talkback section that lets you set the default on what the Mon is monitoring.

To avoid the officially-non-existant whine on the monitor XLR, you can assign any of XLR's 1-16 to receive the Mon output, and connect there.

HTH,
Dan
Click to expand...

Thanks Dan - FWIW I didn't hear any whine using the mon output, so either I don't have it on my desk, or I don't have 6-8K left...lol

The other thing my guy mentioned is that when he was selecting a mix (and the band was fired up), he had no "gas" left on the solo fader to hear the mix as opposed to just the channel- I am going to check the dim levels in the mon section to make sure they are pinned before making any more issue of it.
 
Re: X32 as a monitor desk

Shane Presley said:
Thanks Dan - FWIW I didn't hear any whine using the mon output, so either I don't have it on my desk, or I don't have 6-8K left...lol

The other thing my guy mentioned is that when he was selecting a mix (and the band was fired up), he had no "gas" left on the solo fader to hear the mix as opposed to just the channel- I am going to check the dim levels in the mon section to make sure they are pinned before making any more issue of it.
Click to expand...

I don't have a console in front of me (hence the ambiguity about the default listening in the earlier post) to confirm this, but IF the mon output is still going through the Monitor rotary pot when it's also going through the L/R fader, then that Mon pot has to be at max clockwise rotation as it is an attenuator from unity and not a gain control.

Regardless of whether it does or not, when that system is at unity gain the output from the Mon out when solo'ing a mix will be exactly the same level as the output on the XLR going to that mix, which is what the monitor operator needs in order to know exactly what the artist is hearing.

If there's a level imbalance between the solo'd input and the solo'd mix output, that *should* be the same on an analog or a digital board, and is due to the operator's setting input trims high and output masters low. That could be alleviated by turning down the monitor amp gains and turning up the mix master levels, or some other relative gain adjustments between input and output.
 
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Live Musical Theater

I have been using my X32 for live musical theater productions (Into the Woods / The Drowsy Chaperone / Singin' in the Rain) for the past 6 months. These and most of the productions I have mixed for the past 20 years use 15-20 wireless mics, boundary mics, orchestra mics and recorded SFX . My X32 has been great for this kind of show, especially considering the price. After 6 months and 40-50 performances with my X32 there are a few things about this desk that I would like to see improved.

1. The scene memory is too small and difficult to edit. Most of the shows I mix use upwards of 200 cues. Also, I often find it necessary to add a cue between two existing cues without renumbering all the following cues. For this I need a decimal point in the cue numbers. I hope the next major update will include these. For the present I just continue to use notes in my script.

2. I wish there was an "undo" capability that would restore the state of the console as it was prior to the last button press / knob turn / fader change. Call it an "Oops" button. Perhaps it could be a function assignable to one of the user-assignable buttons. Multiple levels of undo would be nice, but even one level would save me a lot of grief.

3. I have my console set to "Select follows solo" mode to help prevent making gain/dynamics/EQ changes to the wrong channel. Unfortunately when more than one channel is soloed and one of the channel solo buttons is cleared that channel gets selected. Not exactly what I would expect! I think in this mode turning on solo on a channel should select that channel, but turning off solo on a channel should not change the current selection.

4. It sure would be nice if pressing a "Select" button that is already active (lighted) a second time would de-select that channel/buss/dca, leaving nothing selected so that the upper-left portion of the console would be dark and any channel specific screen would instead display "No Channel Selected". I think this would further help prevent unintended changes.

Comments welcome!
 
Re: Live Musical Theater

Hi Stephen,

Agreed on 1, 2, and 4; regarding:

Stephen.Porter said:
3. ... Unfortunately when more than one channel is soloed and one of the channel solo buttons is cleared that channel gets selected. Not exactly what I would expect! I think in this mode turning on solo on a channel should select that channel, but turning off solo on a channel should not change the current selection.
Click to expand...

Do you really want multiple things to be solo'd at the same time? If not, there is a menu that allows a new solo to cancel the existing solo; it's in "Monitor"-> Solo Options -> "Exclusive (Last)". That's only one button push to get there, actually.

I realize different people can have different working preferences, but to me, "solo" means "one thing at a time", so it's easy to avoid the problem you are describing. Doing it your way dooms you to a life of frustration and confusion, maybe....

Good luck,
Dan
 
Re: Live Musical Theater

Dan Mortensen said:
Do you really want multiple things to be solo'd at the same time? If not, there is a menu that allows a new solo to cancel the existing solo; it's in "Monitor"-> Solo Options -> "Exclusive (Last)". That's only one button push to get there, actually.

I realize different people can have different working preferences, but to me, "solo" means "one thing at a time", so it's easy to avoid the problem you are describing. Doing it your way dooms you to a life of frustration and confusion, maybe....
Click to expand...

Thanks, Dan

Actually, I do use the "solo exclusive" mode for the very reason you cite. However, the behavior of the console is what it is and even though I rarely need to solo more than one channel at a time I think its not the correct response to un-soloing a channel in "select follows solo" mode.
 
Re: Live Musical Theater

Stephen.Porter said:
I have been using my X32 for live musical theater productions (Into the Woods / The Drowsy Chaperone / Singin' in the Rain) for the past 6 months. These and most of the productions I have mixed for the past 20 years use 15-20 wireless mics, boundary mics, orchestra mics and recorded SFX . My X32 has been great for this kind of show, especially considering the price. After 6 months and 40-50 performances with my X32 there are a few things about this desk that I would like to see improved.

1. The scene memory is too small and difficult to edit. Most of the shows I mix use upwards of 200 cues. Also, I often find it necessary to add a cue between two existing cues without renumbering all the following cues. For this I need a decimal point in the cue numbers. I hope the next major update will include these. For the present I just continue to use notes in my script.

2. I wish there was an "undo" capability that would restore the state of the console as it was prior to the last button press / knob turn / fader change. Call it an "Oops" button. Perhaps it could be a function assignable to one of the user-assignable buttons. Multiple levels of undo would be nice, but even one level would save me a lot of grief.

3. I have my console set to "Select follows solo" mode to help prevent making gain/dynamics/EQ changes to the wrong channel. Unfortunately when more than one channel is soloed and one of the channel solo buttons is cleared that channel gets selected. Not exactly what I would expect! I think in this mode turning on solo on a channel should select that channel, but turning off solo on a channel should not change the current selection.

4. It sure would be nice if pressing a "Select" button that is already active (lighted) a second time would de-select that channel/buss/dca, leaving nothing selected so that the upper-left portion of the console would be dark and any channel specific screen would instead display "No Channel Selected". I think this would further help prevent unintended changes.

Comments welcome!
Click to expand...

1) I've used mine for Sound of Music and Return to the Forbidden Planet in the last few months but used far fewer cues - the problem I found is that inevitably once a scene is running on stage you tweak the individual talents' channels on the fly, and then when more of them come on or go off stage and you want to bring their faders up/down using a scene recall, the scene load overwrites your tweaked levels to whatever was recorded when you created the scenes. What I would like is the ability to record only certain channels into a scene, i.e. only the ones that I want to bring up or down, leaving all the others exactly where I have set them since the previous scene load (on a lighting desk you can so exactly this, it's called "record only". OK I know this isn't a lighting desk). Channel Safes are no help as, AFAICT, they cannot be set on a per-scene basis (unless I've missed something?)

How do you get round this problem?

2) Yes, that would be useful

3 & 4) I don't have a problem with the current behavour.
 
Re: Live Musical Theater

Dave Korman said:
1) I've used mine for Sound of Music and Return to the Forbidden Planet in the last few months but used far fewer cues - the problem I found is that inevitably once a scene is running on stage you tweak the individual talents' channels on the fly, and then when more of them come on or go off stage and you want to bring their faders up/down using a scene recall, the scene load overwrites your tweaked levels to whatever was recorded when you created the scenes. What I would like is the ability to record only certain channels into a scene, i.e. only the ones that I want to bring up or down, leaving all the others exactly where I have set them since the previous scene load (on a lighting desk you can so exactly this, it's called "record only". OK I know this isn't a lighting desk). Channel Safes are no help as, AFAICT, they cannot be set on a per-scene basis (unless I've missed something?)

How do you get round this problem?
Click to expand...

Have you tried manually editing the scene file on a pc ? Yes I know its a pain but If you delete out the lines that you dont want then you might be able to load parts of a scene.

If this doesnt work on the console it will definatley work with my scene manager app.

Kev
 
W16 monitor output routing

I've just got my P16ms, and connected to the X32, they do exactly what I expected - I can set the direct outs and they appear on the 16 buttons - BUT the P16, when connected to the S16, has the S16 outputs mirrored on thew P16 - NOT the direct channels from the X32? It has to be something stupid I'm doing. Any clues? Cheers. Paul
(I've routed the S16 AES50 A output to the channels 33-48 - but the P16 still hears the output channels, not the X32 channels)
 
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Re: Live Musical Theater

Kevin Hunter said:
Have you tried manually editing the scene file on a pc ? Yes I know its a pain but If you delete out the lines that you dont want then you might be able to load parts of a scene.

If this doesnt work on the console it will definatley work with my scene manager app.

Kev
Click to expand...

I've tested the "incremental method" in the past, and I think it still works. It does have the benefit of speeding up scene changes, particularly if one also delete all lines that are not being used at all. I should really write a utility to do this, but as usual I'm better with ideas and concepts than actually putting in the elbow grease :blush:
One thing to be aware of though, if a "semi-scene" is saved, it becomes a full scene again and has to be manually edited again.
 
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