X32 Discussion

Tablet for X32 Rack

Hey guys,

been lurking this thread for a while now and finally registered. I expect my X32 Rack to arrive in 2-3 weeks and I am wondering which tablet would be a) good for controlling the rack via X-Edit and b) good for all sorts of other additional tasks.

I know that controlling the rack itself isn't a challenge and probably any gadget able to power on can do the job well. But then there's the 32x32 recording and most importantly the virtual soundcheck it enables me to do. I have only home-experience with multitrack recording so I have no clue about minimum requirements that are needed to get the job done. Realistically, my usual live projects are 16-24 tracks.

I have my eyes on this tablet-laptop hybrid:

Samsung SmartPC XE500T1C Samsung ATIV Smart PC 500T (500T1C) | Samsung Tablet PCs
Specs are: Intel Atom Z2760 1.8GHz, 2Gb RAM, 64Gb SSD

Would that work and if not, what minimum requirements would you suggest?
 
Re: Tablet for X32 Rack

I have been reading as much as possible on this interesting thread. Thanks for all the info here.

I am extremely interested in the x32 Rack and have some questions that I can't seem to find answers to.

Just to describe the environment, I am mainly a bass player that owns and runs the band's PA from the stage. Usually using 4-5 mixes of stage monitors, and a send (mono or L/R) to a house rig. We are usually within 16 or 17 inputs. There's usually little to no room for a console. On rare occasion I will provide PA and mix for other bands with up to 6 monitor mixes.

My plan would be to run a single X32 Rack, controlled via an iPad by me. Here are my questions:

1) Is it possible to have 16 inputs running to L-R stereo main, 5 monitor outputs, and 2-3 internal effects (loop) AND have subgroups of inputs such as vocals / guitars / keyboards / drums all at the same time? Is that too many busses? I'm having trouble understanding the routing and any routing limitations (If I do this, I can't do that...)

2) We don't want to use the Behringer personal monitoring hardware. Just too much extra hardware and cabling for our live work. Can each monitor user operate their own monitor mix via their own iphone / iPad on the x32 Rack in addition to mine? Can I lock them out of other settings?

3) is anyone selling a reasonably priced 1U UPS that will provide surge/momentary outage protection? Or what other solution for that is there? I think 5 min of power support would be plenty.

4) how are the xlr outputs different than the aux outputs?

5) can I use an aux in (say Aux 1) for a keyboard input, but use aux out 1 for a monitor send? Could Aux 2 out then be used for an external effect?

6) are there limits on which outputs I can add internal equalization to (parametric or graphic)?


That should do it for now. Any additional info very appreciated.

--Kevin
 
Re: Tablet for X32 Rack

Hello Kevin, and welcome to the forum... some of the answers to your question, and possible solutions....
question
1) Is it possible to have 16 inputs running to L-R stereo main, 5 monitor outputs, and 2-3 internal effects (loop)

answer
You have 16 busses, so taking up 5 for monitors, and 2-3 for FX, leaves you 8 more for subgroups.... OR if you don't need subgroups for compression and the like, you can control these "groups of instruments" with the DCA's (8 total)

question
2) Can each monitor user operate their own monitor mix via their own iphone / iPad on the x32 Rack in addition to mine? Can I lock them out of other settings?

answer
You can use whatever hardware you want to use, sending from the omni outputs, or aux outputs / your choice... I am using hte aux outputs to drive my monitor mixes, but that's only because I am using TRS instead of XLR connections

question
is anyone selling a reasonably priced 1U UPS that will provide surge/momentary outage protection? Or what other solution for that is there? I think 5 min of power support would be plenty.

answer
I haven't researched that as yet, and I probably won't use one on my x32 rack. I have a rackmount 2 space version for my s16 units, and a tripplite power block version for my x32 , but I heaven't looked into anything for my X32R

question
4) how are the xlr outputs different than the aux outputs?

answer
they aren't different, and you can route whatever you want to any output

question
5) can I use an aux in (say Aux 1) for a keyboard input, but use aux out 1 for a monitor send? Could Aux 2 out then be used for an external effect?

answer
YES - as an example, I am using aux IN 1-4 from my FCA1616 firewire interface (addictive drums), and AUX in 5+6 from my TD-12 for toms and cymbals.
Aux outputs are my mix buss outputs 1-6, direct to in-ear mixes, and buss 7-8 XLR is main out.
XLR 1-6 is set to direct out (ch1-6) for when I need to send my drum inputs out to an external PA system.... This allows me to ditch the 8 ch behringer DI I was carrying around.... (it's still in the photo above the TD-12, but it's gone now)

question
6) are there limits on which outputs I can add internal equalization to (parametric or graphic)?

answer
There are 6 band parametric EQ's that are across all busses and matrix outputs as well as L+R. You can also insert 31 band Eq's across outputs as well, and I believe that number can total 8 graphs ( if you are using 4 stereo fx) in slots 1-4

I literally put this rig together last night....
I am the drummer in a 4 piece band, we're all on ears, we're all direct instrument (E-kit/ pods,bass pre). I'm told we sound great due to the lack of stage wash, and we are always loved at weddings due to the ability to turn down if need be.

We were carrying yamaha 01V and a front and back 12 space rack. I kicked the guitar player and bassist out of the rack, and I'm now down to carrying this...
All my pads fit in the case under the racks. All the guys have iphones so they will be driving thier own mixes, and I'll be using my ipad, since my iphone is playing tracks :)

Don't even think about it Kevin... Just do it.

BTW as a cheap in-ear solution , the singer and I are using the behringer headphone amp to drive our ears...
TRS output to XLR on the rear patch bay... connect XLR cables until you reach the player... I've made an XLR to 1/8" female which I loop on my belt, plug my in-ears into that... no batteries required ($189 supplies power to 4 mixes). If your guitar player uses a cable, tape an xlr on beside it, he won't even notice the weight, and any static player can run an XLR to themselves. Being a drummer, it's a non issue for me.
 

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Re: Tablet for X32 Rack

Hi,

1) there a 16 mono mixbusses, a stereo main bus and a mono main bus. The 16 mixbusses can be used as monitor buses, effect busses or subgroups. Count all your desired busses, for stereo busses you have to count two busses, and if the resilt is not higher than 16 the anwer to question one is yes.

2) you can use iPads and iPhones for that. X32-Q is a monitor control app which only can control the mixbus send levels. No other parameters can be modified. But every ios device with this app can control all mixbusses, one at a time.

4) the one are xlr with possible phantom power the others are jacks without phantompower.

5) yes and yes

6) hmm. Outputs itself do not have any signalprocessing. You have to route a signal, of a bus or a matrix for instance, to that output. A bus or a matrix has a six band PEQ and you can insert one Fx out of the fx engines into the bus or matrix. The mixer have 8 stereo fx engines which can be used for reverb or similar effects or also as graphical Eq. For the EQs there are two types available. A stereo type for stereo busses where the eqs are linked, or dual eq types which means that one fx slot allows you to use them on two busses individually. So you can run for your confihuration one stereo for the mains and three dual for max. Six monitor busses and then there are four slots remaining for other effects.


HTH
 
Re: Tablet for X32 Rack

Shane and Klaus - thanks very much for those details. Shane - i love your rack setup. Especially the rear patch panel.

you've both made this much clearer. Sounds like running stereo burns up busses quickly. Probably not neccesary to subgroup inputs in a 16 channel show, but for 32 it would be useful.

if i added a s16 later on, does that also expand the bus count ? Or am I really into a separate monitor console? If a separate console, could that be done with another X32 Rack, joined by a cat 5e cable? If yes, via which interface?

sorry that answers bring up more questions.

--Kevin
 
Re: Tablet for X32 Rack

s16 adds 16 in 8 out in a remotable box

the mix architecture does not change

if you want 8 stereo mixes then yes
you probably need another mix engine
[rack or core] and it will link to the i/o with aes50

fwiw
 
Re: ESD

Robert Lofgren said:
Well, zapping delicate electronics with several thousands of volts and not expecting some hickups... Maybe it's just me.

I understand that esd can be a pain but it needs to be taken care of with proper esd protection at the source. On the other hand I don't live in a place where esd is much of a problem.
Click to expand...

You don`t have carpets in Sweden Robert? Here in Norway, we do... Although I have not encountered this problem myself, someday in a setting, there will be carpets and people with a tendency to drag their feet...

Drag_My_Feet_Along_The_Floor__by_XX_moo_XX.jpg
 
Re: ESD

Henning Fjeld said:
You don`t have carpets in Sweden Robert? Here in Norway, we do... Although I have not encountered this problem myself, someday in a setting, there will be carpets and people with a tendency to drag their feet...

View attachment 8541
Click to expand...
It has to do much more with the humidity in the air than anything else. A good humidity will greatly reduce the risk of esd. Carpets and clothes of certain fabrics can be a problem too depending on the humidity, but they can be replaced if it is an issue.

There are also special esd 'carpets' and other tools that you place at sensitive equipment. Once I had to work at a place with a special suite with copper threads weaved into the fabrics.

As you can see in his videos it doesn't happen all the times suggesting that the x32 is capable to handle it to some extent.

In esd environments like this there exist more electronic equipment that will be at risk as well and the esd may even fry some electronic devices. Therefor esd protective measurements are important.

Edit: Who took that picture of me this morning...
 
Equalization on headphones

Dear X32 users,

a few weeks ago I had an accident, which most likely permanently damaged my left ear hearing, above 100Hz a dratic hearing loss happened. I have already more or less accepted, that I will not have a career as a studio mixer anymore, but I have not given up on recording and live mixing yet. For the time being I am looking for a solution, that allows me to use headphones on my X32, for recording purposes.. which is not such a big challenge. But I need ot be able to boost frequency ranges above 1000 Hz for my left ear only. Which opportunities are provided by the X32, if any. I am more of a hobby user, so I have not developed enough overall skills for the X32, btu I guess, there is a way to have massive equalization on one side of the headphones only...if not on the built in headphone connectors, I hace a small 4-chaeels Behringer headphone amp available, but I have no idea, which outputs I should use for that... or can use. Once that problem is solved, I guess that either with the built in channel strip or a 31 band equalizer I could get a headphone mix, which helps to overcome my hearing problems to a degree ... I already know, it will never be normal again!

Any advise would be highly appreciated.

Cheers

Chris
 
Re: Equalization on headphones

Chris Ludaescher said:
Dear X32 users,

a few weeks ago I had an accident, which most likely permanently damaged my left ear hearing, above 100Hz a dratic hearing loss happened. I have already more or less accepted, that I will not have a career as a studio mixer anymore, but I have not given up on recording and live mixing yet. For the time being I am looking for a solution, that allows me to use headphones on my X32, for recording purposes.. which is not such a big challenge. But I need ot be able to boost frequency ranges above 1000 Hz for my left ear only. Which opportunities are provided by the X32, if any. I am more of a hobby user, so I have not developed enough overall skills for the X32, btu I guess, there is a way to have massive equalization on one side of the headphones only...if not on the built in headphone connectors, I hace a small 4-chaeels Behringer headphone amp available, but I have no idea, which outputs I should use for that... or can use. Once that problem is solved, I guess that either with the built in channel strip or a 31 band equalizer I could get a headphone mix, which helps to overcome my hearing problems to a degree ... I already know, it will never be normal again!

Any advise would be highly appreciated.

Cheers

Chris
Click to expand...
I'm sorry to hear about your accident.

I have developed a slight tinnitus over the years so I always carry hearing protection plugs with me all the time. Applause and whistling makes my ears feel like someone is stabbing my ears with some sharp object.

I hope that you will recover somewhat over time...

Since you need a specific eq all the time I'd use some external eq. The x32 can do what you want, but the settings aren't lockable so you need to put it in place every time you want to start a new project.

If you want to do it in the x32 I'd use the peq in the matrix for such compensation. This way you can have one mix to your ears and still have a proper mix pre-matrix sent elsewhere.
 
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Re: Tablet for X32 Rack

Kevin Tisdall said:
Sounds like running stereo burns up busses quickly. Probably not neccesary to subgroup inputs in a 16 channel show, but for 32 it would be useful.
Click to expand...

If you only want to group them, and not use it for output, or insert effects on that group, a better solution is use the DCA.
See the DCA as a way that with one fader you can adjust all other faders assigned to them.

Say you have a drum group, all drum mics are assigned to a DCA.
If you put the DCA at 0 dB, the DCA will not influence the drum mic levels.
If you put the DCA on -10dB, all drum mics are decreased with 10dB.

Particular handy for soundcheck (increased level) or drum solo.

Once you get the hang of it, your world will open. :)~:)~:smile: DCA's reduces the need on busses in many cases.
 
Re: ESD

Robert Lofgren said:
It has to do much more with the humidity in the air than anything else. A good humidity will greatly reduce the risk of esd. Carpets and clothes of certain fabrics can be a problem too depending on the humidity, but they can be replaced if it is an issue.

There are also special esd 'carpets' and other tools that you place at sensitive equipment. Once I had to work at a place with a special suite with copper threads weaved into the fabrics.

As you can see in his videos it doesn't happen all the times suggesting that the x32 is capable to handle it to some extent.

In esd environments like this there exist more electronic equipment that will be at risk as well and the esd may even fry some electronic devices. Therefor esd protective measurements are important.

Edit: Who took that picture of me this morning...
Click to expand...

Check this thread: behringer x32 cracking and popping with 2x S16 connected?
 
Re: ESD

Henning Fjeld said:
Really disturbing.

X32 ESD with Audio Playing - YouTube
Click to expand...

Not really. Point is: Use Ethernet-connectors and the problem is solved!
Put some of these-->

NE8MC-B-1 - Neutrik

on your CAT cable, and the static will discharge to ground over the X32 chassis.
You can even install the Neutrik connectors by youself without any crimping or soldering.
Dead easy to do-->

Behringer X32 - AES50 Digital Snake Cable Build - EtherCon Connector - YouTube

Invest 10$ in these connectors and you are good to go:)
No more drop outs due static.

Christian
 
Re: ESD

Christian Boche said:
Not really. Point is: Use Ethernet-connectors and the problem is solved!
Put some of these-->

NE8MC-B-1 - Neutrik

on your CAT cable, and the static will discharge to ground over the X32 chassis.
You can even install the Neutrik connectors by youself without any crimping or soldering.
Dead easy to do-->

Behringer X32 - AES50 Digital Snake Cable Build - EtherCon Connector - YouTube

Invest 10$ in these connectors and you are good to go:)
No more drop outs due static.

Christian
Click to expand...

Hi Christian!

I use those myself, probably why I have no issues :)

Now, one of us should post this remedy over at soundforums?

Henning
 
Re: ESD

Christian Boche said:
Not really. Point is: Use Ethernet-connectors and the problem is solved!
Put some of these-->

NE8MC-B-1 - Neutrik

on your CAT cable, and the static will discharge to ground over the X32 chassis.
You can even install the Neutrik connectors by youself without any crimping or soldering.
Dead easy to do-->

Behringer X32 - AES50 Digital Snake Cable Build - EtherCon Connector - YouTube

Invest 10$ in these connectors and you are good to go:)
No more drop outs due static.

Christian
Click to expand...

Yeah, sorry, but I don't think so.

While I can't deny your assertion that you've never had static discharge cause a dropout, I don't see how adding a strain relief and orientation shell that is not connected to the cable shield can do anything to help protect against static discharge. The video that you link to clearly shows there is no added shield termination with the Ethercon.

I don't think it's that easy.

Edit: Ok, I read your post in the other forum saying that the connector DOES contact the metal part of the RJ45; that sliding contact seems less robust and more iffy than a screw or solder termination, but what do I know?

The grounding scheme of these connectors operating at such fantastic speeds is much more haphazard than an XLR....
 
Re: ESD

Hi Dan,
I was told, that the Ethercon connectors touches the metalsleeve of the RJ45 connector, which is connected to the metalsleeve of the CAT5 cable. The Ethernetconnectors (male+female) are designed to discharge unforeseen static (ESD) to the groud of the X32 chassis. But I'm far from an expert concernig these things. Like I said in the other forum. With Ethernetconnctors CAT5 cable I could "flash" the X32 and the S16 for about 40 minutes without noticing one single drop out or sync loss. Maybe I was lucky, but I doubt that...
 
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