X32 Discussion

[Kevin Tisdall]

Re: Tablet for X32 Rack

If you only want to group them, and not use it for output, or insert effects on that group, a better solution is use the DCA.
See the DCA as a way that with one fader you can adjust all other faders assigned to them.

Thanks Antoon !

I was wondering if the DCA's could be used like that AND what their difference to a buss or channel or output was. That would work fine for simple level changes of groups of faders.

--Kevin

 

[Dan Mortensen]

Page 400!!!

And the post and page counts didn't line up, but maybe the bottom of the page will be #8000.

So the winner of all the fabulous prizes will be the last poster on this page.

 

[Dan Mortensen]

Re: ESD

Hi Dan,
I was told, that the Ethercon connectors touches the metalsleeve of the RJ45 connector, which is connected to the metalsleeve of the CAT5 cable. The Ethernetconnectors (male+female) are designed to discharge unforeseen static (ESD) to the groud of the X32 chassis. But I'm far from an expert concernig these things. Like I said in the other forum. With Ethernetconnctors CAT5 cable I could "flash" the X32 and the S16 for about 40 minutes without noticing one single drop out or sync loss. Maybe I was lucky, but I doubt that...

This was a subject that came up at our CAT workshop, how flaky the grounding scheme is in the Ethernet world vs. what we are used to in the audio and electrical world. It seems that having two grounding items in the same vicinity as each other is sufficient, rather than having a screw/solder/clamp connection that is solid and immovable.

As I said in the other forum, I believe your assertion that the shell of the Ethercon touches the shell of the RJ45, which is supposed to be connected to the shield, but the panel mount RJ 45 is already supposed to be grounded to the chassis. The only thing the Ethercon is shielding is the body of the RJ45 connector itself, as well as the unruly portion of the wires which are untwisted to get access into the connector. Unless the static interference is entering there, it's hard to imagine that the Ethercon connector is doing anything other than strain relief and comparatively immobilizing the RJ45 connection.

Regarding your experience, the motto that I live by is "It's better to be lucky than talented". Maybe you are in the club, too......

 

[Timo Ulkuniemi]

Re: Page 400!!!

And the post and page counts didn't line up, but maybe the bottom of the page will be #8000.

So the winner of all the fabulous prizes will be the last poster on this page.

Hello

Over here pages are matching perfectly - as you said - last post on this page is THE winner 8)~~ ~:-o~ :blush:
- what is the prize?? :razz:
- who will give it????:roll:
I have to hit the hay :?~:-?~:???:
- it is midnight here :lol:
- in the morning I´ll see someone else but me collected "first prize" 8O~8-O~:shock:
- I still have message # 3000 so I can maybe live with it :twisted:

 

[Simon Eves]

Re: ESD

As I said in the other forum, I believe your assertion that the shell of the Ethercon touches the shell of the RJ45, which is supposed to be connected to the shield, but the panel mount RJ 45 is already supposed to be grounded to the chassis. The only thing the Ethercon is shielding is the body of the RJ45 connector itself, as well as the unruly portion of the wires which are untwisted to get access into the connector. Unless the static interference is entering there, it's hard to imagine that the Ethercon connector is doing anything other than strain relief and comparatively immobilizing the RJ45 connection.

Have there been any instances of ESD interference through the regular network Ethernet connection, as opposed to the AES50 connections (for which I can absolutely see why Ethercon would help). I'm planning a 100' run of Cat5 around a theatre to remote the X32 backstage from the booth, but obviously there's no additional grounding available for that connection... :\

 

[Dan Mortensen]

Re: ESD

Have there been any instances of ESD interference through the regular network Ethernet connection, as opposed to the AES50 connections (for which I can absolutely see why Ethercon would help). I'm planning a 100' run of Cat5 around a theatre to remote the X32 backstage from the booth, but obviously there's no additional grounding available for that connection... :\

I don't know about this, but Brian in the other forum tried Christian's suggestion to put Ethercon shells on shielded cable, and it worked perfectly for all connection and ESD conditions!

behringer x32 cracking and popping with 2x S16 connected? post #146

This is a significant day! An X32 bug disappears!

 

[Dan Mortensen]

Re: Page 400!!!

Hello

Over here pages are matching perfectly - as you said - last post on this page is THE winner 8)~~ ~:-o~ :blush:
- what is the prize?? :razz:

In addition to the other fabulous prizes, I suggest the winner gets a significant pile of unshielded CAT5e cable.

Beyond that, keep an eye on The Internet for the specific prize announcement. Winners must be awake to win!

- who will give it????:roll:

My vote goes to Miley Cyrus.

-where will it be given? :roll:

At the awards banquet in Seattle, of course.

 

[Per Søvik]

Re: ESD

This is a significant day! An X32 bug disappears!

And the bug was the usual inability of users to do what they are told :twisted:.
Certainly, a verification that we were told to use proper ethercon shielded cable for a good reason was probably needed since many has ignored this.
Definitely a good thing to have it clarified that the ethercon needs to be properly built, and that the shell is not there just for looks. :thumbup:

 

[Rob Bolling]

Lost Routing/Main out will not send to DAW

I somehow had the board where it would route the main mix to the card out to send to Sonar. For some reason I have lost the routing and can not remember how to get it back. I have tried to search the forum and will continue but could use some help.

 

[Robert Lofgren]

Re: ESD

And the bug was the usual inability of users to do what they are told :twisted:.
Certainly, a verification that we were told to use proper ethercon shielded cable for a good reason was probably needed since many has ignored this.
Definitely a good thing to have it clarified that the ethercon needs to be properly built, and that the shell is not there just for looks. :thumbup:

Yes, and as I said earlier - Proper esd measurements needs to take place at the affected equipment and proper grounding is crucial and also very basic stuff.

Btw, a continuity tester will sound even if there is several ohms between the test leads. I've seen/heard testers sound when there was around 100ohm when testing...

 

[Dave Korman]

Re: ESD

Have there been any instances of ESD interference through the regular network Ethernet connection, as opposed to the AES50 connections (for which I can absolutely see why Ethercon would help). I'm planning a 100' run of Cat5 around a theatre to remote the X32 backstage from the booth, but obviously there's no additional grounding available for that connection... :\

I've never seen it in over 30years in IT networking, having been working with Ethernet since Xerox/Digital/Intel first released it running on thick yellow cable. We never do anything speciific regarding ESD when flood wiring buildings, such as offices, that have carpets etc. all over the place. Note however that most computer networking protocols are able to withstand lost packets, either because they don't matter, or because a higher level protocol (eg TCP) provides error recovery. Ethernet is a "best efforts" data-link layer protocol, packet delivery is not guaranteed, and higher layer protocols using it are expected to take that into account.

 

[Klaus Mock]

Re: ESD

Most computer network protocolls are not realtime protocolls and all of them do some error detection and recovery.
This won't help when the challenge is to transfer a contious data stream as it is required for realtime audio transmission.
If the communication is disturbed by something like ESD dropouts are the natural consequence.
For me the result of all these tests is that, as in any case, supply correct electrical grounds will avoid ESDs.
the good news are that the X32 system, with connected S16s, is able to recover ESDs without the needs of reboots or other manual operations.
maybe it would be helpful if the system would recover in a shorter time period.

 

[Aaron Hammett]

Re: ESD

Yeah, sorry, but I don't think so.

While I can't deny your assertion that you've never had static discharge cause a dropout, I don't see how adding a strain relief and orientation shell that is not connected to the cable shield can do anything to help protect against static discharge. The video that you link to clearly shows there is no added shield termination with the Ethercon.

I don't think it's that easy.

Edit: Ok, I read your post in the other forum saying that the connector DOES contact the metal part of the RJ45; that sliding contact seems less robust and more iffy than a screw or solder termination, but what do I know?

The grounding scheme of these connectors operating at such fantastic speeds is much more haphazard than an XLR....

At the current levels of ESD, a sliding contact is all you need. Even a spark gap would do the trick.

 

[John DiNicola]

Re: Lost Routing/Main out will not send to DAW

I somehow had the board where it would route the main mix to the card out to send to Sonar. For some reason I have lost the routing and can not remember how to get it back. I have tried to search the forum and will continue but could use some help.

Dear Rob,
To get the Main LR to the Card Outputs requires two steps:
1. On the "analog out" page of the ROUTING menu, assign the Main LR signals to analog outputs. They are on outputs 15-16 by default.
2. On the "card out" page, assign those analog outputs to a bank of card outputs. If the Main LR signals are on outputs 15-16 as they are by default, you would choose the "Out 9-16" bank. If you choose this for your last bank of card outputs, outputs 25-32, then the main outs would appear at your computer on inputs 31-32.

Of course you can assign to other analog outputs and card outputs as you desire.
Hope it helps!

 

[Antoon van den Oetelaar]

Re: ESD

At the current levels of ESD, a sliding contact is all you need. Even a spark gap would do the trick.

Sometimes they do build it this way to avoid ground loops, so only couple for HF. Some PCB designs use what they call a bob smith plane...

It's also to avoid ESD build up.

I think that when you use shielded cable and don't connect it to anything, problems can even grow because of static build up on the shield.

 

[Bennett Prescott]

Re: Page 400!!!

Hello

Over here pages are matching perfectly - as you said - last post on this page is THE winner 8)~~ ~:-o~ :blush:
- what is the prize?? :razz:
- who will give it????:roll:
I have to hit the hay :?~:-?~:???:
- it is midnight here :lol:
- in the morning I´ll see someone else but me collected "first prize" 8O~8-O~:shock:
- I still have message # 3000 so I can maybe live with it :twisted:

You will be thrilled to know that the prize is a lifetime membership to the Sound Forums Network.

 

[Dan Mortensen]

Re: ESD

At the current levels of ESD, a sliding contact is all you need. Even a spark gap would do the trick.

And a spark gap is what you would have with an imperfect connection, right?

 

[Dan Mortensen]

Re: Page 400!!!

You will be thrilled to know that the prize is a lifetime membership to the Sound Forums Network.

That's extremely generous, Bennett.

Does that include the VIP Pass?

 

[Dan Mortensen]

Re: ESD

I've never seen it in over 30years in IT networking, having been working with Ethernet since Xerox/Digital/Intel first released it running on thick yellow cable. We never do anything speciific regarding ESD when flood wiring buildings, such as offices, that have carpets etc. all over the place. Note however that most computer networking protocols are able to withstand lost packets, either because they don't matter, or because a higher level protocol (eg TCP) provides error recovery. Ethernet is a "best efforts" data-link layer protocol, packet delivery is not guaranteed, and higher layer protocols using it are expected to take that into account.

That's all good to know, thanks! And it says why avoidance is so important with our consoles.

 

[Dan Mortensen]

Re: ESD

And the bug was the usual inability of users to do what they are told :twisted:.
.

Depending on when we were told.

Early on, it was "any old cable".

It didn't become "Shielded cable only" until after the issue came up in March/April of this year.

Now it's apparently "Shielded cable only with Ethercons"