X32 Discussion

Re: X32 Discussion

which outputs are you exactly using? Do you have the same problem when all input faders are down?

Zipper noise is only audible when you adjust gain, so after you adjust it to the correct level it should be gone.
I assume you don't adjust your gains all the time?
 
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Re: X32 Discussion

johnny diaz said:
Tim,

I'm new to the digital world coming from the Allen Heath GL2400. I noticed that the x32 creates alot more hiss (im not passing any audio and do not have anything connected to any inputs) when the gains are up than my analog mixer. Is this normal for digital mixers? So I guess there is no fix for zipper noise? So everyone who owns an x32 has the zipper noise symptom? I can't remember reading it in this post.

Thanks
Johnny
Click to expand...

Johnny, I'm guessing you have other gain structure issues... I think the hottest gain setting on my console at the moment is "28"... I think you need to look downstream for more gain, and backoff on the x32. I hope you're not a turn the amplifiers down to 3/4 kind of guy...
 
Re: X32 Discussion

johnny diaz said:
Tim,

I'm new to the digital world coming from the Allen Heath GL2400. I noticed that the x32 creates alot more hiss (im not passing any audio and do not have anything connected to any inputs) when the gains are up than my analog mixer. Is this normal for digital mixers? So I guess there is no fix for zipper noise? So everyone who owns an x32 has the zipper noise symptom? I can't remember reading it in this post.

Thanks
Johnny
Click to expand...

I haven't noticed more hiss under the circumstances I use the X32. I use it in club and public environments and any residual noise is more than masked by the ambient sound. One of my guys used it at FOH for a bluegrass festival and didn't mention any hiss issues. Our systems are mostly set for 26dB gain. You have to hit them pretty hard to get full output. Dan Mortensen and a couple other users mentioned various noises in different outputs very early in this thread, a search might turn up some useful results... or not.

Remember that a digital mixer's levels are referenced to 0DBFS. That means ZERO DB, FULL SCALE. That's the point at which you have, for all intents and purposes, run out of 1's. Full Tilt Boogie. Every digital product has a dBu output level that corresponds to 0DBFS, +21dBu for the X32. It is possible you're running things hot without realizing it.

As for zipper noise, I think the users of <$20,000 mixers don't consider it to be a problem or have given up hope that manufacturers will fix it for their "value" models. Yamaha's M7 and LS/9 both have zipper noise (and a relay-switched pad in the M7 that changes the input impedance and therefore the sound) but I don't recall it in my more limited experience with the PM5D. I don't recall any zipper noise on the PM1D. No zipper noise on our AVID mixers, even the SC48 is zipper-less. I haven't spent any quality time with the A-H digitals but don't recalling hearing either way about them.

Three or 4 years ago there was a discussion about zipper noise over at the ProSoundWeb forums that came about because a corporate client heard it at tech rehearsals and thought there was something dodgy with the PA. More a client relations issue, but the meeting planner had never heard it before and was concerned it would be present at showtime. As part of that thread, Really Smart Guys® that design mixers and other electronic stuff discussed the technical how & why and, IIRC, explained how decisions about performance vs. value decisions are made at the manufacturer's level.
 
Re: X32 Discussion

johnny diaz said:
Tim,

I'm new to the digital world coming from the Allen Heath GL2400. I noticed that the x32 creates alot more hiss (im not passing any audio and do not have anything connected to any inputs) when the gains are up than my analog mixer. Is this normal for digital mixers?
Click to expand...
When nothing is connected to the inputs there will be noticable noise on the inputs. Connect something and the noise is gone.

Btw, don't run your inputs higher than -18dBFS average signal. This roughly translates into 0dB on an analog console.
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Antoon van den Oetelaar said:
which outputs are you exactly using? Do you have the same problem when all input faders are down?

Zipper noise is only audible when you adjust gain, so after you adjust it to the correct level it should be gone.
I assume you don't adjust your gains all the time?
Click to expand...

Antoon,

Im using output 16. When the faders are down no noise. Im actually just testing the board. While checking for zipper noise I have no signal being passed. Are you getting zipper noise on your x32?

Thanks,
Johnny
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Shane,

I have the gains at 37 just with no input signal to check for noise problems people had on channel 16 & 32.

Thanks,
Johnny
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Robert,

I'm confused. Please explain to my why "When nothing is connected to the inputs there will be noticable noise on the inputs." Can you please explain how to set your levels on your x32.

Thanks,
Johnny
 
Re: X32 Discussion

johnny diaz said:
Robert,

I'm confused. Please explain to my why "When nothing is connected to the inputs there will be noticable noise on the inputs." Can you please explain how to set your levels on your x32.

Thanks,
Johnny
Click to expand...

The input is quieter when it is terminated to a lower impedance.

The Ch 16/32 issue is mentioned somewhere in the first 2000 posts to this thread. Plug a mic into the inputs and see if they get quieter. I don't recall what the Behringer official solution was...
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Tim McCulloch said:
The Ch 16/32 issue is mentioned somewhere in the first 2000 posts to this thread. Plug a mic into the inputs and see if they get quieter. I don't recall what the Behringer official solution was...
Click to expand...

It was caused by a wire that was routed incorrectly. Moving the wire solved the problem.

The noises I talked about early on were on the monitor and headphone outputs. There seems to be a fix for both of those in at least some cases, the fix done by a Service Center.

I, too, felt there was maybe a bit more overall output noise early on, until I directly compared the X32 to my previous small console Gold Standard (APB HouseRack). While the X32 noise was a bit louder than the APB with Masters at -infinity, it stayed the same at Master +10 while the APB increased a lot on the way to Master +10. Since the APB "a lot" had NEVER been a problem in actual use, I've not thought about X32 overall output noise again. Except when answering questions like this.
 
Re: X32 Discussion

johnny diaz said:
Can you please explain how to set your levels on your x32.
Click to expand...
On any device that uses 0dBFS as the metering level you must ensure that you never hit zero. The reason being that when the level is that hot the a/d-converters becomes overloaded and distorts in a bad way.

Analog devices tends to smooth this distortion over a range and many times that distortion is much more pleasing to the ear.

For technical reasons (google is your friend) the reference level called 0dB on an analog metering scale is considered to be -18dBFS on your digital device. Depending on where you come from this reference level can change somewhat.

As on an analog meter where you aim your audio level to be around 0dB you do the same in the digital world but using -18dBFS instead. This leaves you with 18dB of headroom before digital clipping. If your program material is highly dynamic you may want to aim for -24dBFS instead.

Unlike analoge consoles you must never let the clip-light turn on. This will get you into nasty digital distortion territory! I have seen many analog guys drive digital desk into clipping and say this is fine. It isn't! Only on some consoles (midas) where the clip light represents analog preamp distortion long before digital distortion.

The x32 analog preamp never distorts before the digital distortion...
 
Re: A patching question

John DiNicola said:
Dear Paul,
You can get around the "blocks of 8" by using the Aux In Remap feature on the "home" screen of the ROUTING menu.
As of firmware 1.15, this allows you to bring in 2, 4, or 6 additional inputs from the desk, card, or AES50. For your scenario, the simplest way would be to bring in all 32 inputs from stage on the 4 blocks of 8 inputs, and use Aux In Remap to bring in 6 inputs from the local S16 or the mic preamps on the console. Once you have this patched, you can remap the channel layout however you wish by using the "source" menu on each channel's config page.
Click to expand...

Thanks very much John
I'll have a look at that remapping feature and give it a go. Thanks
Paul k
 
X-UF card problem

Hello anyone from Behringer,

On the x32 (classic) the card doesn't do firewire anymore. USB works but firewire is gone. Can we have contact about exchanging this part? The desk itself is fine and heavily used.

Thanks so much in advance.

Btw. This desk is in the Netherlands. Nijmegen to be specific.
 
Power supply prob, kudos, a suggestion and a question

Been following this thread for some time now. I have multiple systems that I use (SL16, SL24, 24 chan's of higher end mic pre's with RME digiface etc...). Picked up an X32 with S16 stage box and road case a few months ago. Had been using it for a series of jazz concerts I do each year. The desk ran brilliantly for the first 3 shows then a problem developed. I had it set up in the studio, prepping for the 4'th show, when it just powered off. I had been around back plugging something in so I thought I mayhave bumped the power cord or something but it did the same thing a day or so later.

With some trepidation I brought it in for the 4'th show, got everything setup. The desk had been powered on for some 2 hours or so then, again, just went black. This time, I could not get it to come back up. Cycle power and the buttons around the display would light up, display might light, and a few times, it would start or complete initializing then power off again within a sec or two...bummer!

Frantically re-cabled essential things through an old Mackie desk at the venue and managed to do the show.

Now the good news....contacted Music Group, got an RMA for it, and here's the remarkable part...shipped the unit on a Friday and UPS delivered it to Music Group service center the following Tuesday (I'm in Utah so Nevada's pretty close). Unbelievably, UPS returns it to me that Thursday!...same week! Repair notes indicate they found a few bad solder joints in the power supply and a "bad leg connection of an IC (didn't indicate which one). Said they had burnt it in for 2 hours.

I hooked everything up in the studio (S16, stage monitors, multiple mic's, as many condensors as possible (phantom pwr...looking to stress test the power supply to the max. Left it on with music cycling through it from Thursday evening till Sunday morning when I packed it up to bring it up for the 5'th show.

It's worked perfectly since, no issues at all! Been running the desk, connected to an outboard laptop, running Cubase. Recording all channels (usually between 20 and 28) via USB to a solid state drive. I have a fire wire adaptor for the laptop, an ADK 7600, but I'm not returning anything from the laptop so latency is no concern...just set the USB buffer setting fairly high and the recordings have been trouble free.

I cant overstate how impressed I was with the turnaround on the repair. I did tell the rep, when I got the RMA, that I was needing it back pretty quick but never expected it that fast!

Now for a suggestion and a question....suggestion...When I assign a number of chan's to a DCA and mute the DCA, the underlying chan's dont provide any visual feedback that the DCA has been muted. On the AH iLive gear, if you mute a DCA, the mute lights on the channels assigned to that DCA will flash. Coudl a similar function be included on the x32?

In other words, I assign chan's 1 thru 6, to DCA 1. If I mute DCA 1, the mute buttons for chan's 1-6 would flash, indicating that these chan's are muted at the DCA level.

Now a question, On the jazz shows I do, I use a pair of buss's (7/8, these are linked) to build a full mix that is fed to an overflow room. The main room is small enough that I dont need much drums in the house but do need them in the mix to the overflow room.

Is it possible to have the mix I'm sending to the overflow room (buss's 7/8) have panning that's independent of the panning in the main room/foh mix? ie...could I pan a sax, for example, center in the main room but slightly left in the mix I send to buss's 7/8? If so, how would I do this?

Thanks in advance and, again, kudos to Music Group for a phenomenal repair turnaround! The desk, btw, is really blowing people away at the shows. FX are great, musicians are very impressed with the sound quality...the S16 is bloody brilliant ( I built my own cat 5E cable, Neutrik NE8 connectors, around 260' total length...works perfectly and so much easier than the old multicore I used to string).

Thanks,

Karl
 
Re: Power supply prob, kudos, a suggestion and a question

Dear Karl,
Glad to hear that you are enjoying your X32, and that your experience with our CARE center was a positive one.
Thank you for your input regarding DCA mute behavior, we value our customer feedback!

For your overflow mix, you can certainly have separate panning, as long as you aren't using running the mix buses as subgroups. I would recommend "pre fader", so that your channel strip processing will be included but you can set a different mix then what you have in the main room. You can find this setting by selecting one of the linked buses and pressing the VIEW button near the CONFIG/PREAMP section of the channel strip to view the bus config page.

When sending a channel to a pair of linked buses, the odd bus send encoder in the channel strip will control volume while the even encoder controls panning. This is also true when using the channel's "sends" page and the encoders beneath the screen.
 
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Re: Power supply prob, kudos, a suggestion and a question

John DiNicola said:
Dear Karl,
Glad to hear that you are enjoying your X32, and that your experience with our CARE center was a positive one.
Thank you for your input regarding DCA mute behavior, we value our customer feedback!

For your overflow mix, you can certainly have separate panning, as long as you aren't using running the mix buses as subgroups. I would recommend "pre fader", so that your channel strip processing will be included but you can set a different mix then what you have in the main room. You can find this setting by selecting one of the linked buses and pressing the VIEW button near the CONFIG/PREAMP section of the channel strip to view the bus config page.

When sending a channel to a pair of linked buses, the odd bus send encoder in the channel strip will control volume while the even encoder controls panning. This is also true when using the channel's "sends" page and the encoders beneath the screen.
Click to expand...

John,

I do have the buss's set up as pre-fader...I understand what you're describing....on the same question, same setup, (linked buss's, sending to them pre-fader) but using the mix pad app on a tablet....if I select the "sends on fader's" button on the mix-pad, there are no pan controls shown on the fader chan's on the tablet...I can go to an individual chan's detail screen (I'm pretty sure) and adj the panning from there...question becomes; so long as I stay in the "sends on fader's" mode, is this the way I would adjust the panning of a chan to the selected pair of buss's without affecting the panning to the house mains?

BTW...I'd add to my previous post...my first SL16 had to go back for repairs twice for prob's on the aux sends...worked fine from then on. I've worked in the tech world for over 30 years now and my experience has been that, new devices can have problems to be sorted out but, once you get them settled in and running, if they're well designed, they tend to run great if well cared for. Completely happy with the x32! It's just staggering what this board will do....even at twice the price (dont get me wrong, I'm not suggesting a price increase :lol:)!
 
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