X32 Discussion

My flightcase

I was Lucky this weekend to find a flightcase that almost exactly has the sizes of the original box. (2 out of 3 directions.)
The box was originally made for a bicycle(!) so I, being a cyclist also, had to buy it (€75).
Took me some cutting and gluing with the original X32-foam and here is the result:
 

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Re: X32 Discussion

Incorrect. That said, latency compensation is only as accurate as the reporting. So, it is virtually impossible to have 100% correct compensation all of the time from all plug in manufacturers.
So why do I hear so many protools owners complain about the lack of plugin latency correction. Has it changed with the latest version perhaps?
 
Re: X32 Discussion

A trick that works all the time to establish the round trip time is to run a recorded click-track into the singers headphones, and put the headphones over the mike to record some clicks. From this recording it is easy to establish how much latency there is by comparing the recorded track with the original track. Once the latency is established, it is a matter of post take shifting every new track by the established amount.

So I went and tried this on my Pro Tools 8 LE rig with a 003R. I had two mono audio tracks and the click track. I output the click track directly to one audio track, and bussed from the click to a 3-4 stereo headphone mix output (separate from main out 1-2). Had a mic plugged into the other audio track, and put the headphones up to the mic. First I recorded at 1024 buffer rate, so hearing the click back through the mic in real time had some serious delay, as expected. I recorded for 5 seconds to each track, then switched the buffer rate to 128 and did the same to thing for comparison.

Although lowering the buffer rate greatly decreased latency in monitoring, it made no difference to the outcome of recorded alignment. In both cases, the clicks were almost completely lined up. Only when I zoomed in as far as I could did I see the recorded track was just slightly off. Played back and switched between and could hear no delay what so ever.

I know we're getting off topic of the X32. I apologize, but we already have this conversation going so why not.

edit: Crap, I don't think I did it right. It needs to be a prerecorded click and not streaming at the same time maybe? I'll have to try that again.
 
Re: X32 Discussion

You can do this with headphone line out to another input. You should be able to achieve sample accurate sync this way. It should not change with buffer settings.
 
Re: Another X-UF card problem

Coming back after a weekend away, my X-UF card seems to be broken. :?~:-?~:???:
Lots of cracks and disturbance.

A quick inspection learned that the wrong led was lighted. Although conected FiWi, the USB led was lit and the configuration screen showed USB interface active. There was not even a USB cable connected! After changing the interface back to FiWi, all the indications were ok, but the sound just as bad.

I had already noticed, for some weeks, that the interface only works at 48.0 sample rate. I have the idea that this is after the update Windows 8.0 > 8.1.

Now I installed the USB driver. That works, but also only at 48.0!

Is this problem similar to yours, Misja?

No my problem is that Firewire does not work at all. I suspect a faulty connection.
 
Re: X32-Q app problem..

It seems a bit extreme "There is a bug with this car, it crashes when I jerk the wheel violently at speed" :?~:-?~:???:

Then again, since one might be giving a lot of people access to do their monitor mix, one never knows what to expect, so it needs to be quite idiot proof.

Well these monitor mixes are all IEM so they have control of there mixes ether from ipad or iphone.

And i have reproduced the problem every time i use the system and you don't have to be 15 feet away from the router and it will mess up and reboot the desk..

Going to try it again tonight and see if its reboot again. and i will retry it a few more time like i did the other night and every time it rebooted the desk and i only had 2 iphone's connected to it..

One phone right next to me at the desk next to the router and the other one was at the keyboard player area and then the one that would cause the reboot of the desk..
and i swapped out phone and put mine over there and tried it and it done the same thing rebooted the desk..

The only thing i haven't change out yet is the router but i can't see that its giving the problem cause the ipad app works like a charm it lags a little the further you get away from the router but it doesn't reboot the desk..

I will try some more things out and will lets ya guys know..

Randy
 
Re: X32-Q app problem..

And i have reproduced the problem every time i use the system and you don't have to be 15 feet away from the router and it will mess up and reboot the desk..
I tried it with iPad running the X32Q and I couldn't get any bad response either from the Rack or the "Big". That was with only two devices connected and my router gives me solid coverage to at least 50 feet, so circumstances must be somewhat different for my little "test".
While I might suggest having a look at the whole router/network setup and any possible issues or quirks with your router, what I find weird is the reset thing. Before I sorted out all issues with remote setups, I did experience lag and response that would slow down to a crawl combined with erratic behavior, but never a reset or loss of sound. It will be interesting to see if anybody can replicate it.
Until a possible firmware issue have been solved, may I suggest that you try out X32-Router from Twelve Tone to see if that might be a solution.
 
Re: X32-Q app problem..

I tried it with iPad running the X32Q and I couldn't get any bad response either from the Rack or the "Big". That was with only two devices connected and my router gives me solid coverage to at least 50 feet, so circumstances must be somewhat different for my little "test".
While I might suggest having a look at the whole router/network setup and any possible issues or quirks with your router, what I find weird is the reset thing. Before I sorted out all issues with remote setups, I did experience lag and response that would slow down to a crawl combined with erratic behavior, but never a reset or loss of sound. It will be interesting to see if anybody can replicate it.
Until a possible firmware issue have been solved, may I suggest that you try out X32-Router from Twelve Tone to see if that might be a solution.

its only happens with the iphone app not the ipad app.

The ipad app works fine all the issues happen with the iphone app..
 
Re: X32-Q app problem..

Until a possible firmware issue have been solved, may I suggest that you try out X32-Router from Twelve Tone to see if that might be a solution.

Hi Per,

This program is fishy to me since it says it will increase the number of clients to "unlimited" "from the current limit of 4".

The current limit AFAIK is ten.

Assuming "clients" means "iPads and iPhones".

Dan
 
Re: X32-Q app problem..

ipad works great no problems at all. The problems are with the iphone app its what makes the x32 reboot.
What per meant was that it is possible to install the iphone app onto the ipad and this is what he did.

The ipad can install and run any iphone app but and iphone can't do ipad apps. Makes sense?

Can you try and do the same just for 'fun'?
 
Re: X32-Q app problem..

Hi Per,

This program is fishy to me since it says it will increase the number of clients to "unlimited" "from the current limit of 4".

The current limit AFAIK is ten.

Assuming "clients" means "iPads and iPhones".

Dan
I believe the limitation is four x32-edit and four ipads at the moment. The limit is ten for iphones. This is from memory so I could be wrong...
 
Re: X32 Discussion - Latency

So I went and tried this on my Pro Tools 8 LE rig with a 003R. I had two mono audio tracks and the click track. I output the click track directly to one audio track, and bussed from the click to a 3-4 stereo headphone mix output (separate from main out 1-2). Had a mic plugged into the other audio track, and put the headphones up to the mic. First I recorded at 1024 buffer rate, so hearing the click back through the mic in real time had some serious delay, as expected. I recorded for 5 seconds to each track, then switched the buffer rate to 128 and did the same to thing for comparison.

Although lowering the buffer rate greatly decreased latency in monitoring, it made no difference to the outcome of recorded alignment. In both cases, the clicks were almost completely lined up. Only when I zoomed in as far as I could did I see the recorded track was just slightly off. Played back and switched between and could hear no delay what so ever.

I know we're getting off topic of the X32. I apologize, but we already have this conversation going so why not.

edit: Crap, I don't think I did it right. It needs to be a prerecorded click and not streaming at the same time maybe? I'll have to try that again.


FWIW - did these rough tests a few weeks ago

"out of interest just did some rudimentary latency tests using reaper as the in and out - and these should not be taken as fact - as simply reading off the offsets by eye

Recorded a sine wave to a reaper track and then played back through x32 and recorded on new track in reaper ( note output from x32 was via the P16's to allow x32 processing and inserts to be included in the rerecorded track - don't know if this routing would make any significant difference suspect not).

First With the reaper automatic audio driver reported latency adjustment turned OFF ( out of interest and to see how good the reaper auto latency adjustment is). the rerecorded sine wave was offset by a approximately 57.4ms - this could be card / usb / driver etc adding to the X32 processing time -see below.

Measuring relative to this offset:

With standard dynamics and EQ the latency was the same as without these ( as expected).

With an insert effect - waves - the latency increased by approximately 1.5Ms ( but see below)

With an insert GEQ the latency was less about 0.8ms.

As expected with two inserts in line - i.e. via a bus ( in this case two waves) offset doubled.

Repeated the above with the reaper using the reaper reported driver latency adj turned ON - to see how this impacted

With no processing - the offset of the recorded sine wave was 0.6 ms ( this would ally with Behringers stated 0.7ms as the accuracy I could read off needs a little give and take).

And with standard dynamics and EQ was the same.

With the waves insert I got a slightly better figure than the first test about 1.2 ms but again the accuracy of my reading would need to be better and maybe do again.

With the Geq - 0.8ms.

Have not looked at any of the other inserts but suppose there will be some variation in the processing overhead and latency.

Finally doing a test with direct output then i.e Card in and card direct out - i.e. recording back to reaper with no x32 eq/ dynamic processing/effects

without reaper latency adjustment for drivers offset is 57.1 ms

So the drivers etc have a latency of about 57ms

With driver reported latency adjustment turned ON no offset"
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Yes, the click should be played as a region and not played from the plug in.

Alright, so I tried this test again last night. Precorded click for about 8 bars, then fed signal from the 003R headphone output directly into an input. As an extra step to emulate a "performers headphone mix" I still fed the click from a send on the track, outs 3-4 which on the 003R can be selected to feed the 2nd headphone jack (nice feature I'm surprised you don't see more often on interfaces).

There clearly was delay on the incoming audio from the click track, I had the buffer settings all the way up. What I'm ultimately trying to test is the claim from the link above, "delay compensation", that a native Pro Tools system automatically shifts newly recorded audio to realign tracks.

I recorded 8 bars onto the new audio track, during recording the sound and meters registered as two completely different events, not lined up what so ever. But I noticed right away that waveforms looked to be lining up. Upon playback and really close zooming in of the waveforms, the clicks were perfectly lined up. Playback was now completely in sync.

I guess that's good?
 
Re: X32 Discussion - Latency

First With the reaper automatic audio driver reported latency adjustment turned OFF ( out of interest and to see how good the reaper auto latency adjustment is). the rerecorded sine wave was offset by a approximately 57.4ms - this could be card / usb / driver etc adding to the X32 processing time -see below.
To get an accurate latency figure, you need to include the analog out analog in conversion as well, so running a cable from an output to an input is needed to get the full signal route. The main latency is of course in the card and any buffering, but to get the absolute accuracy for a manual figure to enter into the manual Reaper latency compensation, the analog conversions needs to be included even though they are small.
 
Re: X32-Q app problem..

ipad works great no problems at all. The problems are with the iphone app its what makes the x32 reboot.

I attempted to replicate the issue at work yesterday. I moved up to 75 feet away, sometimes with 2 solid walls between the router and my phone, and scrolled as fast as I could through the track sends. Took faders and moved them up and down. Switched between horizontal and vertical view again and again as fast I could.

Nothing happened. Music was being played back through the PA and it was never affected. I'm not saying there isn't an issue (clearly there is) but I'd like to know if someone else can replicate it.

Until then, I suggest trying a new router. Anytime your trouble shooting a problem, assuming any variable isn't the culprit will generally result in said variable being the culprit.
 
Re: X32 Discussion - Latency

To get an accurate latency figure, you need to include the analog out analog in conversion as well, so running a cable from an output to an input is needed to get the full signal route. The main latency is of course in the card and any buffering, but to get the absolute accuracy for a manual figure to enter into the manual Reaper latency compensation, the analog conversions needs to be included even though they are small.

undoubtedly.
The reaper auto latency adj ( though need to recheck) seems to be ok if not adding x-32 processing & a recorded lead in click or signal if need to re-align takes.
 
Source Channel from Bus Out for Recording?

Dear Collective Consciousness,

I have my X32 set up for another theatre production this week, and I am trying to do a multi-channel recording (using XUF Firewire and Reaper on a MacBook Pro) for the video soundtrack.

Last night I was able to record all the raw audio coming into the desk (12 wireless mics, 4 band inputs, stereo QLab SFX, and two ambient mics just for the recording), but of course the wireless mic channels are the raw input audio, not the post-dyn/EQ/fader audio that's going to the house.

I'd still like to record the raw vocals as a backup, in case there's a live fader fumble and something is missed, but I figured to make the video mix (much) easier I could record the post-dyn/EQ/fader vocals too by sending them (either individually, or in groups) to Mix Buses, and then sourcing other spare channels (hidden on the second layer) from those Bus Outs instead of their Channel Ins.

My question is simply to confirm that if, on a channel's Home->Config page, I set Source to a Bus Out, then that *is* what will go out of the XUF (with some trivial latency), and not still the In.

(I'm asking here because I'd like to know if I have to go and borrow a bunch of short XLR cables today to do the looping in analog if the internal routing doesn't work, so that I can get it working one way or the other tonight)

Thanks in advance,

Simon Eves
Stapleton Theatre Company
San Anselmo, CA, USA