X32 Discussion

Re: Source Channel from Bus Out for Recording?

Simon Eves said:
Dear Collective Consciousness,

I have my X32 set up for another theatre production this week, and I am trying to do a multi-channel recording (using XUF Firewire and Reaper on a MacBook Pro) for the video soundtrack.

Last night I was able to record all the raw audio coming into the desk (12 wireless mics, 4 band inputs, stereo QLab SFX, and two ambient mics just for the recording), but of course the wireless mic channels are the raw input audio, not the post-dyn/EQ/fader audio that's going to the house.

I'd still like to record the raw vocals as a backup, in case there's a live fader fumble and something is missed, but I figured to make the video mix (much) easier I could record the post-dyn/EQ/fader vocals too by sending them (either individually, or in groups) to Mix Buses, and then sourcing other spare channels (hidden on the second layer) from those Bus Outs instead of their Channel Ins.

My question is simply to confirm that if, on a channel's Home->Config page, I set Source to a Bus Out, then that *is* what will go out of the XUF (with some trivial latency), and not still the In.

(I'm asking here because I'd like to know if I have to go and borrow a bunch of short XLR cables today to do the looping in analog if the internal routing doesn't work, so that I can get it working one way or the other tonight)

Thanks in advance,

Simon Eves
Stapleton Theatre Company
San Anselmo, CA, USA
Click to expand...

You need to route the busses to the P16 outs and then route these to the DAW via the card outs
 
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Re: Source Channel from Bus Out for Recording?

Simon Eves said:
....My question is simply to confirm that if, on a channel's Home->Config page, I set Source to a Bus Out, then that *is* what will go out of the XUF (with some trivial latency), and not still the In.

(I'm asking here because I'd like to know if I have to go and borrow a bunch of short XLR cables today to do the looping in analog if the internal routing doesn't work, so that I can get it working one way or the other tonight)...
Click to expand...

Dear Simon,
Changing the source of the input channel to a bus will not change what is going out of the XUF card, as it is set to tap the mic preamps just after A/D conversion by default
As Nick says, you need to change the settings on the "Card Out" page of the ROUTING menu.
There are a couple of ways to go about this, but using the P16 outputs is a great way to go if you are not using the P16 system.

On the "card out" page, change one of your banks of 8 outputs to "P16 1-8".
Then go to the "P16 out" page, where you can individually assign any signals you want to the first 8 P16 outputs. These assignments will then route to the card outputs to your computer.

The advantage to this method is that you can assign your mix buses to the first two P16 outputs, and still use the other 6 to assign direct output from channels. This way you are not using a whole bank of 8 outputs for a pair of mix buses. Hope it helps!
 
Re: Source Channel from Bus Out for Recording?

Nick Davis said:
You need to route the busses to the P16 outs and then route these to the DAW via the card outs
Click to expand...
would have given a fuller explanation but terrible problems with getting this editor to recognise my key stokes ..!


and strokes!
 
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Re: Source Channel from Bus Out for Recording?

Thanks, Nick and John!

I didn't see this before tonight, during which I discovered that the bus-out-as-input doesn't work, but I found enough XLR to loop back some of them as analog, which was enough. I'll try your method tomorrow! :)

Simon
 
Re: Source Channel from Bus Out for Recording?

John DiNicola said:
The advantage to this method is that you can assign your mix buses to the first two P16 outputs, and still use the other 6 to assign direct output from channels. This way you are not using a whole bank of 8 outputs for a pair of mix buses.
Click to expand...

Just to clarify, as I'm away from the mixer, the X32-Edit doesn't show all the same stuff when it's not connected...

I have 11 wireless mics, 3 instrument inputs (two keyboards and a single drum mic), stereo FX and stereo ambient mics, so that's 18 live inputs.

I'm using two buses for stage and band monitors, both post-fader.

I've got the default FX mapping taking up buses 13-16, although I'm only using two types of FX, so I can probably change this (not sure how) to free up more buses.

I'd want to send all 18 live inputs, plus 11 buses containing post-dyn/EQ/fader versions of the 11 wireless mic channels.

The XUF Outs can only be patched in blocks of 8, so I'd have to set it to something like:

Out 1-8 from Channel Input 1-8 (the default)
Out 9-16 from Channel Input 9-16 (the default)
Out 17-24 from P16 Output 1-8
Out 25-32 from P16 Output 9-16

Can a P16 block have a mixture of buses and channel inputs, since I still need to send live inputs 17 and 18 somehow?

I guess I'll just have to wait until tomorrow night and try it...

I'm beginning to think I'm overthinking this. Perhaps I should just trust my fader-fu and *only* record the post-fader vocals? ;)

Thanks again! :)
 
Re: Source Channel from Bus Out for Recording?

Before I answer – one thing to remember / note that although you can route post fader via a bus to the P16 any send / return effects will not be included unless you also route the output from the FX ( return) to the bus – but be careful not to return to the effects busses.
Concerning the card outs – yes only blocks of 8. But there is flexibility in what goes
to each P16 out.
So if you assign the card outs as you said
1-8 = Local 1-8 (or aes50 if s16)
9-16 = Local 9-16
17-24 =P16 1-8
25-32 = P16 9-16

So card outs 1 to 16 will now have the direct outputs for Ch 1-16
In the Routing for the P16 Set

P16 out 01 to Direct out Ch 17 ( pre EQ)
P16 out 02 to Direct Ch18 (pre Eq)
you should now have all 18 channel direct outs pre eq.

Set the other P16 outs to your busses.
You can check all this using xedit
Sorry about the spacing – as cannot type directly into forum at moment did off-line and pasted!

someone correct me if I have got this wrong!
 
Re: Source Channel from Bus Out for Recording?

Hello

Since Ultranet has all necessary flexibility built into desk already - all we need is a device, that converts P16 output into 16 analog outputs or two ADAT or two TDIF or something else - please Santa Claus - let that be in next year NAMM surprises.
 
Re: Source Channel from Bus Out for Recording?

Timo Ulkuniemi said:
Hello

Since Ultranet has all necessary flexibility built into desk already - all we need is a device, that converts P16 output into 16 analog outputs or two ADAT or two TDIF or something else - please Santa Claus - let that be in next year NAMM surprises.
Click to expand...

Dear Timo,
Thank you for your feedback, we are always listening!

Just thought I would mention:
If you happen to have a S16 in your rig, in a way you already have this functionality. In the first 3 operating modes, the S16's ADAT outputs read AES50 Outs 17-32 from the console. In the "AES50 Out" page of the ROUTING menu, simply assign "P16 1-8" and "P16 9-16" to Outputs 17-24 and 25-32. Then you can use the "P16 Out" page to individually assign signals to those outputs, just as you would when using the P16 system. This is a great workaround for those needing to integrate with other personal monitoring solutions or when more outputs are needed.
 
Re: Source Channel from Bus Out for Recording?

Simon Eves said:
I've got the default FX mapping taking up buses 13-16, although I'm only using two types of FX, so I can probably change this (not sure how) to free up more buses.
Click to expand...

If you are using any of the buses for other things than effects, just turn down the associated effect returns or go into the effects and turn off the effect tapping from the bus you want to use, or both.
The 13-16 buses behave like normal buses, the only difference is that the effects tap from these buses by default, but that doesn't affect the bus itself.
 
Re: Source Channel from Bus Out for Recording?

I set the Card Outs to In 1-8, In 9-16, P16 Out 1-8, and P16 Out 9-16, and managed to route the sound effects (17/18), the hall mics (19/20), the FX1 (variable by character vocal reverb) stereo return, and 10 buses containing the post-fader vocals (11 mics, but mixed together 2 who are never on stage together) to the P16 Outs, and recorded all that as well as the 11 raw mic inputs and the raw band inputs. I have some work to do on the levels, but everything is there and clean and eminently mixable.

Thanks again, Nick, John, and Per, for your help! Damn, I love this mixer! :)

Simon
 
core sync

got my core this week...

i'v been using my s16's as stand alone pre's
in my SAC rig. [set to master clock]

i fought for about an hr yesterday trying to get audio
thru the system with the core slaved [sync] to the s16

never did get the channels to show up in the right place
no matter how i patched aes50 A or B

finally flipped master sync to the core
and it worked instantly

gotta love a 32x16 hole mixer in 5 rack spaces...

wish they'd hurry up with the ADAT card

FWIW
 
Re: Headphones

Is it just me or when no signal is being passed through the x32 there is alot of hissing. Very annoying. I have my channel faders for channels 3&4 at 0 gain trim at 22db gain and master at -10. Im still new to this digital world and quite possibly still doing something wrong. I also noticed that on channels 3&4 which are linked when I bring the gain trim to 60db I get signal on the input for those channels and master in the meters section without passing any signal. Im guessing its not how its done in the digital world. There are times when I'm using 20 channels and when the band will stop playing I get alot of hissing and I need to mute the outputs. Please advice.
 
Re: Headphones

johnny diaz said:
Is it just me or when no signal is being passed through the x32 there is alot of hissing. Very annoying. I have my channel faders for channels 3&4 at 0 gain trim at 22db gain and master at -10. Im still new to this digital world and quite possibly still doing something wrong. I also noticed that on channels 3&4 which are linked when I bring the gain trim to 60db I get signal on the input for those channels and master in the meters section without passing any signal. Im guessing its not how its done in the digital world. There are times when I'm using 20 channels and when the band will stop playing I get alot of hissing and I need to mute the outputs. Please advice.
Click to expand...

If analog metering would show the noise floor, you'd see it on analog mixers when you add 60dB of gain at the inputs. At the low end of the scale you have a lot more resolution on digital metering.

As for the hiss, you have a lot of extra gain somewhere. I can't tell you where over the internet. If you include your location in your displayed user info perhaps another forum participant can visit and offer suggestions.
 
Hissing

johnny diaz said:
Is it just me or when no signal is being passed through the x32 there is alot of hissing. Very annoying. I have my channel faders for channels 3&4 at 0 gain trim at 22db gain and master at -10. Im still new to this digital world and quite possibly still doing something wrong. I also noticed that on channels 3&4 which are linked when I bring the gain trim to 60db I get signal on the input for those channels and master in the meters section without passing any signal. Im guessing its not how its done in the digital world. There are times when I'm using 20 channels and when the band will stop playing I get alot of hissing and I need to mute the outputs. Please advice.
Click to expand...

Hello

Somehow I get the impression, that you are testing the desk with open inputs - nothing connected - many desks - analog and digital show some hiss when inputs are NOT termonated properly. But that is not a real life situation...

Can you do same tests with two microphones, that have ON/OFF-switch turned into OFF-position ? Also make sure there are no compressors etc to boost the gain.

Then we would like to know what you are feeding with output from X32 - give us ALL info of your setup - even if you feel it is not important - someone here might catch the problem.


Merry X-mas from North - +6C / 40F and raining - absolutely NOT a white X-mas :lol:


Nuuska
 
Re: Hissing

Timo Ulkuniemi said:
Hello

Somehow I get the impression, that you are testing the desk with open inputs - nothing connected - many desks - analog and digital show some hiss when inputs are NOT termonated properly. But that is not a real life situation...

Can you do same tests with two microphones, that have ON/OFF-switch turned into OFF-position ? Also make sure there are no compressors etc to boost the gain.

Then we would like to know what you are feeding with output from X32 - give us ALL info of your setup - even if you feel it is not important - someone here might catch the problem.


Merry X-mas from North - +6C / 40F and raining - absolutely NOT a white X-mas :lol:


Nuuska
Click to expand...

I have inputs 1-4 connected. Inputs 1-2 (linked) are for my roland octa capture and 3-4 (linked) are for a dj mixer. I have my powered tops connected directly to outputs 15&16. I have no signal going to any inputs and just increase the gain knob on 1-2 to say 60db I get leds on the meter for inputs 1&2 and master out. Even when I have the gain at 30db I still hear some hiss but no leds. On inputs 3-4 I start to get leds on the meters at 47db which is before inputs 1-2. I dont have any compression enabled. Is this normal?
 
Re: Hissing

johnny diaz said:
I have inputs 1-4 connected. Inputs 1-2 (linked) are for my roland octa capture and 3-4 (linked) are for a dj mixer. I have my powered tops connected directly to outputs 15&16. I have no signal going to any inputs and just increase the gain knob on 1-2 to say 60db I get leds on the meter for inputs 1&2 and master out. Even when I have the gain at 30db I still hear some hiss but no leds. On inputs 3-4 I start to get leds on the meters at 47db which is before inputs 1-2. I dont have any compression enabled. Is this normal?
Click to expand...
Considering that you are hooked up to line-sources, it is not abnormal to have some noise when the gain is turned up way too high. If there is more noise when the sources are turned on than when they are turned off, the noise comes from the sources. If plugging-unplugging makes a difference, then you also have some information. If a shunted out input makes a noise, then the desk has a problem.

Going back to the gain, assuming your nominal output from the sources is 0dBu-+4dBu, you are looking at a properly set gain maybe as low as -12dB.


EDIT: What Tim already said on the previous page.
 
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