X32 Discussion

Re: X32 Discussion

John Chiara said:
AGAIN...I submit that some units work differently...the time I noticed it was because it was the first thing I checked because the tap delay literally gets used more than any other function during a show. So if I mis tap on the iPad I have to wait 3 secs to start tapping again! 3 secs during a song is an eternity, especially if after that I have to change pages to get back to faders.
I think users who claim a normal function have a different function. I have experienced it so I know it exists...just don't know how or why. Like Tim, I have been tapping delays since at least the Roland SDE 1000's... With the playmate input for a momentary switch...and how stupid did it operate as the first tap reset the time, and the next 2 set the delay! At least then I could fix it as quickly as I could tap.
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Some units may work differently but this is the X32. I don't get in my lowly Honda Civic and say, "this does't feel or work like a Rolls Royce". I just adapt to it and get on with it. It is as it is... and it works fine for me. But then I'm not an 'expert' with many years experience. Maybe it gets harder then.
 
Re: X32 Discussion

I think the big difference between good and bad tapping experiences might be user based. Perhaps some users don't know what a good tap sounds like... No offence to anyone, but I really doubt anyone is having the tap tempo function work properly for them. I think it's an Occam's Razor kind of thing: Simplest explanation is the right one. It could be that some people can't hear the difference between a good tap and a wrong tap because they don't know what they're listening for.

It kind of reminds me of a lazy engineer with the 4 presets on a SDE 1000 and thinks the timing is good enough. Song tempo is 115, but the delay time is set for 500 ms. Close enough, it must be right...
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Robert Lofgren said:
It sounds like the x32 now is almost perfected. The only issue left is the tap tempo and then there is nothing else to improve or fix.

X:D~:-D~:grin:8)~8-)~:cool:x
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It's the coupling with it's environment that isn't up to the task...

I read posts that X32-Edit has redraw / disconnect issues, while the X32 is showing / working fine

This *could* be a firmware issue though...

...waiting for 2.05 to update the X32Core

Best

Klaus
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Lee Williams said:
I think the big difference between good and bad tapping experiences might be user based. Perhaps some users don't know what a good tap sounds like... No offence to anyone, but I really doubt anyone is having the tap tempo function work properly for them. I think it's an Occam's Razor kind of thing: Simplest explanation is the right one. It could be that some people can't hear the difference between a good tap and a wrong tap because they don't know what they're listening for.

It kind of reminds me of a lazy engineer with the 4 presets on a SDE 1000 and thinks the timing is good enough. Song tempo is 115, but the delay time is set for 500 ms. Close enough, it must be right...
Click to expand...


The problem with your explanation is the complaints are NOT from people that "don't know what a good tap sounds like" or "can't hear the difference between a good tap and a wrong tap" and it's insulting to them for for you to say that. I have never read of any tap problems with other boards, or the save issues, or so many fader problems. Are some X32 users so enamored that they have their head in the sand? I wonder if the X32 is not made in China but in the State of Denial!
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Chuck Simon said:
The problem with your explanation is the complaints are NOT from people that "don't know what a good tap sounds like" or "can't hear the difference between a good tap and a wrong tap" and it's insulting to them for for you to say that. I have never read of any tap problems with other boards, or the save issues, or so many fader problems. Are some X32 users so enamored that they have their head in the sand? I wonder if the X32 is not made in China but in the State of Denial!
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You are missing Lee's point.
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Lee Williams said:
I think the big difference between good and bad tapping experiences might be user based. Perhaps some users don't know what a good tap sounds like... No offence to anyone, but I really doubt anyone is having the tap tempo function work properly for them. I think it's an Occam's Razor kind of thing: Simplest explanation is the right one. It could be that some people can't hear the difference between a good tap and a wrong tap because they don't know what they're listening for.

It kind of reminds me of a lazy engineer with the 4 presets on a SDE 1000 and thinks the timing is good enough. Song tempo is 115, but the delay time is set for 500 ms. Close enough, it must be right...
Click to expand...

I can accept that, but when 10 repeated tries gives me between 247 and 254 mS on one song, and another song allows me to repeat a 312 mS tap five times in a row, it strongly suggests that it's not "all over the place" notwithstanding any musical ineptitude on my part.

Actually, I manage to make it behave in an "all over the place" manner fairly easily when I two tap, wait for a couple of beats and then two tap again. I can do that on my Yamaha and Lexicon units without any inconsistency, but if I try on my X32 it will give me values that are either within a few milliseconds or something completely "wild". Does my ability to get it wrong qualify me to be a member of the Discerning Pro/Golden Ears Club?
 
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Re: X32 Discussion

So Per, walk me through your experience please.
For many, they tap multiple times to get closer to the actual tempo, so we could say the first 6 taps are 'practice' so only the 7th and 8th taps should be what set the tempo. That's what I would want, no? I don't see ANY need for any kind of averaging at all. And when I am on the iPad app my last tap is on the DCA tab to get my faders back.
 
Re: X32 Discussion

John Chiara said:
So Per, walk me through your experience please.
For many, they tap multiple times to get closer to the actual tempo, so we could say the first 6 taps are 'practice' so only the 7th and 8th taps should be what set the tempo. That's what I would want, no? I don't see ANY need for any kind of averaging at all. And when I am on the iPad app my last tap is on the DCA tab to get my faders back.
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Actually I prefer averaging over several taps because sometimes it is hard to get the right interval with music that hasn't got a straight feel. If you hit the short interval the delay can feel a bit aggressive, while the long interval makes it too lazy and a feeling that it's off in the short interval, so a full four-beat with averaging seems do work for me. When I two-tap, sometimes I just nod my head or keep the beat with my foot and just hit the two-tap, but if I'm really intent on getting the exact groove on something with a strong delay, I tend to practice tap beside the button and then just move my arm slightly to hit the button for two or more taps (moving the finger disturbs my rhythm so I move the whole arm).
Sometimes you know immediately that you missed it, you don't need to hear it, you just know right away that you weren't in the groove, and then it is tempting to tap again right away. Then, by two-tapping, then leaving an interval and two-tapping again, you get the average of everything, and that is really off. So when realizing I missed, I either wait a few seconds and listen or start multi-tapping right away to get a full sequence that shifts the open interval beyond what is counted, I'd normally do a full eight tap sequence if that happens. I know I don't have to do eight, but that allows my first two taps of the new sequence to be ignored (if I'm not mistaken in how many actually counts).
Works for me, but then again I'm not doing sound for anything that can justify paying for a "real" soundguy, so there is unlikely to be anybody listening that is going to complain that the delay was off compared to the recording they heard on the radio or bought/downloaded. That doesn't let me off the hook in any way, but I'm unlikely to get any feedback on my performance at such a detail level.
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Sorry if this has been posted before. I believe it has, but I'm at a gig and can't find it.


My setup is 2xs16's all running to AES50-A


I'm using the P16 on the x32 and routing certain channel and groups back to stage using the first P16 to feed the orchestra.


Can I set the second s16's p16 port to send the local 16 ports of local input to just that p16 port. I want to send a feed to another room for the headset station to monitor them only.


Or is the second s16s p16 fixed to the AES50 mix sent from the x32 at FOH.


Hope that makes sense.


I'm not trying to exceed the limits of the AES50 cable, just use the the second units p16 for justing monitoring itself.
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Hi again Jan,

Thanks to you and Dan, I have created two presets - one for small and one for large monitors, and they configure the ouputs correctl;y = YAY - NO MORE WHINE!! Thanks!

One question though - You mention I could create snippets and recall them via user assignable buttons - I'm struggling with this as the routing appears to be stored in 'Presets' not snippets - How do I go about setting up so the assignable buttons call them up.?

Pauly


Jan Duwe said:
Dear all,
to Pauly, #9590

Dan correctly suggested using the Routing/output patched to Monitor L / Monitor R, for copying the monitor signal to the respective outputs. Alternatively, you might consider directly assigning the monitor signal to the physical XLR outputs using the new Routing/XLR page. Selecting AUX 5-6/Mon in two of the blocks would give you the monitor signal on two pairs of XLR connectors, without having to sacrifice an output 1-16 signal (which might help, if the out 1-16 are used e.g. for recording subgroups or fx returns).
Storing the output patch for your mid-field and large monitors in two snippets, would allow you to recall them conveniently from two of the user assignable buttons.

Jan
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Re: X32 Discussion

I do the exact same thing as you brother... I do a few "practice taps" before I'm ready to start tapping fo reals. That is not an issue with any other digital desk (that I've been on) or an old school piece of outboard like a TC d2.

Actually, that's a lie! Now that I think about it, I mixed on a soundcraft si somethingorother that had a weird tap reaction as well... It had the same "averaging" feel as the x32.

For example, If I want to tap between a 1/4 note and switch to half note mid way through the chorus of a song, it takes awhile for the delay time to actually change.


I just tried this on the x32 windows edit software, and it did exactly what I'm referring to:


Tapping along with a 120 bpm 1/4 note click, it goes there right away... 500ms. Then change to an 1/2 note tap, and it takes 4 taps to get it to the desired delay time (1000ms). Change it back to 1/4 note and it takes another 4 taps. This would be fine, if it wasn't for the averaging going on where you get 3 delay times between 500ms and 1000ms. 500, then 630, 760, 890 and then 1000. Those steps in the middle really mess with the sound, especially when feedback is involved. And, it should not take a full bar to change the delay time. I want it to change NOW, not eventually get there a bar from now...
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Brett Tippet said:
Can I set the second s16's p16 port to send the local 16 ports of local input to just that p16 port. I want to send a feed to another room for the headset station to monitor them only.
Click to expand...

Mode 4, 5 and 6 depending on which AES50 channels you want out of the local outputs (1-8,9-16 or 17-24 respectively). Any of these modes will send Local 1-16 to P16
 
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Re: X32 Discussion

Pauly Mel said:
Hi again Jan,

Thanks to you and Dan, I have created two presets - one for small and one for large monitors, and they configure the ouputs correctl;y = YAY - NO MORE WHINE!! Thanks!

One question though - You mention I could create snippets and recall them via user assignable buttons - I'm struggling with this as the routing appears to be stored in 'Presets' not snippets - How do I go about setting up so the assignable buttons call them up.?

Pauly
Click to expand...

In the snippets for the output bit - you need to check the outputs box under console and then busses going to these. For routing select routing and then the bits of the routing you want to recall.

Snippets seems to be a very powerful feature.
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Lee Williams said:
I do the exact same thing as you brother... I do a few "practice taps" before I'm ready to start tapping fo reals. That is not an issue with any other digital desk (that I've been on) or an old school piece of outboard like a TC d2.

Actually, that's a lie! Now that I think about it, I mixed on a soundcraft si somethingorother that had a weird tap reaction as well... It had the same "averaging" feel as the x32.

For example, If I want to tap between a 1/4 note and switch to half note mid way through the chorus of a song, it takes awhile for the delay time to actually change.
Click to expand...

Yes, it does take a little time, if you need instant switch, use two delays (or start tapping the second tempo one beat before you want it to take effect).


I just tried this on the x32 windows edit software, and it did exactly what I'm referring to:


Tapping along with a 120 bpm 1/4 note click, it goes there right away... 500ms. Then change to an 1/2 note tap, and it takes 4 taps to get it to the desired delay time (1000ms). Change it back to 1/4 note and it takes another 4 taps. This would be fine, if it wasn't for the averaging going on where you get 3 delay times between 500ms and 1000ms. 500, then 630, 760, 890 and then 1000. Those steps in the middle really mess with the sound, especially when feedback is involved. And, it should not take a full bar to change the delay time. I want it to change NOW, not eventually get there a bar from now...
Click to expand...

If you actually tap the whole time and change the tempo, there will be a transition where the averaging averages between different tempos, but you wouldn't be doing what you describe. You tap one tempo and then you stop tapping. When you are changing tempo, you start tapping the new tempo and it will change without any transition right after the second tap.

Do it right and it works.
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Per Søvik said:
Mode 4, 5 and 6 depending on which AES50 channels you want out of the local outputs (1-8,9-16 or 17-24 respectively). Any of the modes will send Local 1-16 to P16
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Thanks for the reply.

I have to 2 cascaded S16's .. so

S16 1 - Outputs 1-8outs
S16 2 - Outputs 9-16outs

Both seem to take the x32 P16 routing though, not the local IO's

Is there another option I should be look at?
 
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