X32 Discussion

[Dan Mortensen]

Re: Rhythm Delay

AMEN

The Point has been expressed SO CLEARLY , that if anybody does not get it - please do not try to convince us "old dogs" that we should relearn what has been good for us for decades.

For Behringer team - if averaging can be switchable, then those two or three who wish to use it can do so while rest of us don´t :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

While the user interface is clearly working as designed, that design is substituting one subjective perception of "what's best" for another much more widespread perception of "what's best".

The "forget physics" comment was a much-shortened version of what it should have been: "physics has nothing to do with this discussion; it's about user preference and expectation based on widespread past experience".

The user group preferring a much quicker response which allows for changing conditions in the moment seems to be much greater than that which prefers averaging over some random unspecified time (unless you read this thread and get the inside explanation. I have read the thread, though, and can only recite an impression that the averaging works one way unless you do something different, in which case it works another way, which very nearly equates to "random unspecified time").

While the X32 has in many ways substituted the designers' desires and preferences for widespread industry practices, there are clearly some operational user sequences which are tried and true and where change is going the wrong direction.

Behringer has responded admirably in the past to user requests, and I hope and trust that they get the point of this discussion.

 

[Per Søvik]

Re: X32 Discussion

Ok... Question;
I'd like to insert a stereo equaliser across the small monitors, and another across the large, as they each have an individual response. - I have been able to insert an eq over the monitor out, but can I so that for each pair of outputs?

I don't see how you have managed to insert eq in the monitor path (without routing back to an input), but anyhow, if you are already changing between monitors with snippets, why not extend the snippets to also swap between two sets of stereo effect inserts? Then, at some time in the future when you have finished tweaking the eq for the two sets of monitors, you could save the eq setting and then just have the snippets alternate between the eq settings on the same stereo effect insert, meaning you only have to use up one effect slot.

 

[Dan Mortensen]

Re: X32 Discussion

o. W. P nw was. w w wwo on in of

And now we all know the secret to using the tap tempo feature reliably and accurately.

Thanks, Jay!

 

[Daniel McAllister]

Re: X32 Discussion

If he does that, then mutes/fades out the DCA when the chorus aren't saying their communal lines, the individual mics who are still speaking won't work.
Daniel, have you used Cues yet, on v1 or v2 firmware?

You scenario is one huge part of the reasoning for buying our X32 earlier this month. Musical Theatre with 23 radio mics, 4 overhead stage mics, and 2-3 stereo SFX inputs (PC, CD).

My dad (producer who runs sound during the shows) just about copes with most entrance/exits as radio mics come on/off, but he misses at least three somewhere in the script every night.

By pre-programming the Radio Mic entry/exits into cues, specifically using snippets for mutes only now we've got v2, he only has to hit 'Go' to deal with all of them; I can then choose whether to include SFX and overhead mics in those snippets or not.

Peter

Hi Peter,

I've used cues on a couple of shows recently - mainly using the snippet feature as a quick way to apply a global edit to existing scenes. V2 is certainly much more flexible for musical theatre.

I do have around 25 cues programmed for the show, but there are still scenes that require quick a bit of manual fader work in quick succession. Some of the cast also walk on and off stage within a few seconds of each other, returning several seconds later! Admittedly the easiest option would be to just leave them all open at the cue for a scene they're in.

The unusual nature of the show makes it more tricky than normal. There's no set 'principals' and a 'chorus' - all cast members have lines, and all also sing in varying groups as the chorus (the show is Company). That's why it can't really be done via DCAs - every mic is a principal and chorus member.

Intrigued about the suggestion of having multiple DCAs assigned to the same channel. I always assumed that if two DCAs were assigned to a channel, having either one of those DCAs pulled down would mute the channel..?

Anyway, we've just done a brief run of the show, and I ended up settling on a DCA for all the RF channels, plus a pre-fader send from all RF channels to a linked 'Chorus Group' bus, with the send pans set appropriately to give it a bit of a spread. Then that bus is assigned to a Chorus DCA. So now I can quickly mix any individual, duet, etc lines on the left-hand side, but also have the option to kill all those instantly using the first Vocal DCA, and also instantly have a nice chorus sound just by bringing up the Chorus DCA linked to the bus - all at the sound check level regardless of the position of that individual's mic on the left hand side. Also gives a handy way to send all the vocals currently live in the FOH mix to the monitors for the orchestra.

Each to their own I guess, but that worked nicely for me in the end.

Also, can anyone else check this for me as a possible bug in X-Edit..? Set various inputs to send to a bus, some Pre Fader, some Pre EQ, some post, etc. Now in the bus config, use the option to set them all to Pre Fader. I found that it set them all to Pre EQ instead. It was a show file converted from V1 though, so that could have messed it up.

Thanks for all the comments.

 

[Paul Vannatto]

Re: "What is Dynamic Range" video

The Pacific Northwest Section of the Audio Engineering Society had a meeting in January in which James D. Johnston (JJ) presented his thoughts about the subject, and I videotaped it and finished editing it (while learning Final Cut ProX in the process) and it's now on YouTube for your delectation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruSjIWuHFF0

Hi Dan,

Very interesting and I learned a lot. Thanks for posting it.

Paul

 

[Dan Mortensen]

Re: X32 Discussion

Intrigued about the suggestion of having multiple DCAs assigned to the same channel. I always assumed that if two DCAs were assigned to a channel, having either one of those DCAs pulled down would mute the channel..?

Hi Daniel,

You understand correctly, but the actual suggestion was to assign channels to two DCAs, and lower one from unity by 10db and raise the other by the same amount, which leaves the channels assigned to the second one in the same place they started. If you muted one or the other or lowered the fader to infinite cut, all channels assigned to that DCA would be muted in the post-fader sends, but nobody suggested that.

It sounds like you have a working process that you are happy with and which works for you, and that's all that matters.

Dan

 

[Glenn Adams]

Re: X32 Discussion

In the comments about tap tempo, has anyone said that once a tempo was set that the blinking of the light was correct to the tempo? What if you just dial it in. I never tried it or looked into it.

 

[Pauly Mel]

Re: X32 Discussion

Hi Per,
Great idea - Just so I don't keep bothering you (well.. not as much anyway), where is the information about snippets file formats & parameters etc?... Is there a reference to all this stuff?.. The manual has nothing at all.

Thanks again
Pauly

I don't see how you have managed to insert eq in the monitor path (without routing back to an input), but anyhow, if you are already changing between monitors with snippets, why not extend the snippets to also swap between two sets of stereo effect inserts? Then, at some time in the future when you have finished tweaking the eq for the two sets of monitors, you could save the eq setting and then just have the snippets alternate between the eq settings on the same stereo effect insert, meaning you only have to use up one effect slot.

 

[Dave Korman]

Re: X32 Discussion

Some of the cast also walk on and off stage within a few seconds of each other, returning several seconds later! Admittedly the easiest option would be to just leave them all open at the cue for a scene they're in.

The unusual nature of the show makes it more tricky than normal. There's no set 'principals' and a 'chorus' - all cast members have lines, and all also sing in varying groups as the chorus (the show is Company). That's why it can't really be done via DCAs - every mic is a principal and chorus member.

.

In most musical theatre shows I find that certain groups of characters appear together on multiple occasions. I assign fader channels to characters based on those groups. I use snippets for entries and exits (on faders, not mutes, as this makes the next part easier) and then for cases where I have to mix them line-by-line and where they are darting on and off stage, I have eight fingers and two thumbs , so I can manipulate ten faders simultaneously - like playing the piano. This is also useful for riding mutiple faders as the characters move together and apart on stage.

 

[Peter Howarth]

Re: X32 Discussion

Hi Daniel,

You understand correctly, but the actual suggestion was to assign channels to two DCAs, and lower one from unity by 10db and raise the other by the same amount, which leaves the channels assigned to the second one in the same place they started. If you muted one or the other or lowered the fader to infinite cut, all channels assigned to that DCA would be muted in the post-fader sends.

Dan

Thanks for clarifying Dan - I was wondering the same thing as Daniel.

Not sure if you intended the tone you portrayed, but Daniels question seemed fair to me.

Peter


Sent from my iPhone

 

[Per Søvik]

Re: X32 Discussion

Hi Per,
Great idea - Just so I don't keep bothering you (well.. not as much anyway), where is the information about snippets file formats & parameters etc?

Unfortunately, the answer to that question is "In my head", so you just have to keep bothering me :razz:

... Is there a reference to all this stuff?.. The manual has nothing at all.

I think this is about all there is: http://x32wiki.music-group.com/index.php?title=V2.0_Firmware:_Scene/Snippet/Cue_Management

 

[Per Søvik]

Re: X32 Discussion

In the comments about tap tempo, has anyone said that once a tempo was set that the blinking of the light was correct to the tempo? What if you just dial it in. I never tried it or looked into it.

As far as I've been able to tell, the flashing is always in tempo with the tempo that is set, it always reflects the actual parameter. Of course, if you double tap on beat so there is no averaging, the flashing will tend to be slightly behind your beat, while if the parameter is set by dialling, the flash will be quite randomly placed.

 

[Jay Barracato]

Re: X32 Discussion

And now we all know the secret to using the tap tempo feature reliably and accurately.

Thanks, Jay!

I have absolutely no idea what that post was or what it might mean. Maybe the tapatalk version of butt dialing..

I also did a walkup on a x32 yesterday, I am with Tim and John on the tap issue. I had absolutely no idea what result I was going to get each time I tapped, with the added inconsistantcy of tapping on the iPad, and no apparent way to tap anything less than 400ms or no way other than a little flashy light to tell what it thought I tapped.

Can you even just dial in a number value?

If you can it wasn't apparent to me on the iPad app.

I still don't have enough shows to be comfortable with basic workflow or work a rounds so I am still reserving judgement but 2 out of 4 stages at a street festival yesterday had x32's so whether I like the devil or not I am definitely going to see them more often.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD

 

[Glenn Teuber]

Re: Interesting bug in 2.04.

I just spoke with our German engineers and we will be issuing new firmware plus a release note hopefully today.

Warm regards

Uli

Hmmm Behringer must have a differnd Time system......

 

[Klaus Roethlisberger]

Re: Interesting bug in 2.04.

Hmmm Behringer must have a differnd Time system......

it's called >>> game changer <<<

:roll:

Klaus

 

[Jan Duwe]

Re: Interesting bug in 2.04.

...I just spoke with our German engineers and we will be issuing new firmware plus a release note hopefully today.
Warm regards

Uli

Dear all,

We just uploaded firmware 2.05 and X32-Edit 2.1 PC/Mac/Linux to our FTP server. Please find the links below. I suppose the behringer.com website update can be done by tomorrow, probably. These are the main benefits of updating the editor and firmware:

• Improved hand-shaking reduces the risk of communication drop-outs between console and X32-Edit
  
• New fast-sync process between firmware 2.05 and X32-Edit 2.1
• RTA now also for GEQ and EQ pages
• Quicker show load for X32-Edit showdata
• Library utilities added
• Turbosound iQ speaker support on Routing/P16 page
• Adaptive tap tempo with sanity-check on measured times

For those of you, who have a particular interest in tap tempo matters, we may have some good news as well. Rather than "forgetting about physics" we took a closer look at it ourselves.
As a matter of fact, the X32 V2.0 behaved exactly as the Yamaha LS9-16 (applying the time between two taps immediately or averaging over the last 4 taps, when tapping longer). MKT PRO series consoles also do some averaging, and there is good reason for averaging, especially for delays shorter than half a second. On the other hand we did not find any console featuring customizable averaging for the tap function, and we are perfectly decided ensuring the X32 will not suffer from over-engineered featuritis, one day.

Hence, we applied 2 improvements to the function. First we introduced a sanity-check for measured tap times. Everything inside a +/-10% window will be counted into the running average. Moderate tempo changes will moderately be followed. Anything outside that window will start a new sequence, allowing to follow dramatic tempo changes quasi-immediately. The other improvement has to do with synchronizing the flashing LED with the tap moment, which intutively reassures the user that his "tap command" was "understood" correctly. So, the flashing light is on the down-beat now.

Best,
Jan


X32 Firmware 2.05: www.behringerdownload.de/X32/X32_Firmware_2.05.zip
Release notes PDF: www.behringerdownload.de/X32/X32_Firmware_Update_V2.05_2014-05-23_Rev.1.pdf
X32-Edit PC: www.behringerdownload.de/X32/X32-Edit_V2.1_PC.zip
X32-Edit MAC: www.behringerdownload.de/X32/X32-Edit_V2.1_MAC.zip
X32-Edit Linux: www.behringerdownload.de/X32/X32-Edit_V2.1_LINUX.tar.gz

 

[Klaus Roethlisberger]

Re: Interesting bug in 2.04.

Dear all,

We just uploaded firmware 2.05 and X32-Edit 2.1 PC/Mac/Linux to our FTP server. Please find the links below. I suppose the behringer.com website update can be done by tomorrow, probably. These are the main benefits of updating the editor and firmware:

• Improved hand-shaking reduces the risk of communication drop-outs between console and X32-Edit
  
• New fast-sync process between firmware 2.05 and X32-Edit 2.1
• RTA now also for GEQ and EQ pages
• Quicker show load for X32-Edit showdata
• Library utilities added
• Turbosound iQ speaker support on Routing/P16 page
• Adaptive tap tempo with sanity-check on measured times

For those of you, who have a particular interest in tap tempo matters, we may have some good news as well. Rather than "forgetting about physics" we took a closer look at it ourselves.
As a matter of fact, the X32 V2.0 behaved exactly as the Yamaha LS9-16 (applying the time between two taps immediately or averaging over the last 4 taps, when tapping longer). MKT PRO series consoles also do some averaging, and there is good reason for averaging, especially for delays shorter than half a second. On the other hand we did not find any console featuring customizable averaging for the tap function, and we are perfectly decided ensuring the X32 will not suffer from over-engineered featuritis, one day.

Hence, we applied 2 improvements to the function. First we introduced a sanity-check for measured tap times. Everything inside a +/-10% window will be counted into the running average. Moderate tempo changes will moderately be followed. Anything outside that window will start a new sequence, allowing to follow dramatic tempo changes quasi-immediately. The other improvement has to do with synchronizing the flashing LED with the tap moment, which intutively reassures the user that his "tap command" was "understood" correctly. So, the flashing light is on the down-beat now.

Best,
Jan


X32 Firmware 2.05: www.behringerdownload.de/X32/X32_Firmware_2.05.zip
Release notes PDF: www.behringerdownload.de/X32/X32_Firmware_Update_V2.05_2014-05-23_Rev.1.pdf
X32-Edit PC: www.behringerdownload.de/X32/X32-Edit_V2.1_PC.zip
X32-Edit MAC: www.behringerdownload.de/X32/X32-Edit_V2.1_MAC.zip
X32-Edit Linux: www.behringerdownload.de/X32/X32-Edit_V2.1_LINUX.tar.gz

Thank you !
I'll report, promised

8)~~

Klaus

 

[John Chiara]

Re: Interesting bug in 2.04.

So I assume it was impossible to just disengage the averaging?

 

[Dan Mortensen]

Re: X32 Discussion

Thanks for clarifying Dan - I was wondering the same thing as Daniel.

Not sure if you intended the tone you portrayed, but Daniels question seemed fair to me.

Peter


Sent from my iPhone

Sorry, I intended no tone other than informative. My apologies if something different came across.

I did have to write the thing twice from scratch as the first one got lost when either I or the forum went offline just as I was posting. Maybe that aggravation creeped into the response?

Apologies again.
Dan

 

[Dan Mortensen]

Re: X32 Discussion

I also did a walkup on a x32 yesterday, I am with Tim and John on the tap issue. I had absolutely no idea what result I was going to get each time I tapped, with the added inconsistantcy of tapping on the iPad, and no apparent way to tap anything less than 400ms or no way other than a little flashy light to tell what it thought I tapped.

Can you even just dial in a number value?

If you can it wasn't apparent to me on the iPad app.

You can input a number in the Effects page of the delay you are using, and probably also assign that function to a user-defined encoder.