Can anyone give a real world comparison. Looking for a small hifi box for club gigs and small outdoor shows. I like 3 way boxes in general so wondering about the differences.
Danley SM 80 vs SM 60F?
- Thread starter John Chiara
- Start date
Re: Danley SM 80 vs SM 60F?
John,
I'm just a guy, but I like everything about the SM80 better than the SM60. The SM80 is a tiny bit forward in the upper midrange for my taste, but overall its one of the best sounding Danley boxes, and I think Ivan should be proud of it.
Just one data point.
John,
I'm just a guy, but I like everything about the SM80 better than the SM60. The SM80 is a tiny bit forward in the upper midrange for my taste, but overall its one of the best sounding Danley boxes, and I think Ivan should be proud of it.
Just one data point.
Re: Danley SM 80 vs SM 60F?
C'mon Phil. You are more than JUST a guy. I have seen your caricature in a magazine and everything!
C'mon Phil. You are more than JUST a guy. I have seen your caricature in a magazine and everything!
Re: Danley SM 80 vs SM 60F?
There are the obvious differences-price-size-coverage pattern etc.
The SM80 gets quite a bit louder than the SM60F. I honestly feel the specs on the SM80 are a bit on the conservative side-and plan on taking a "second look" at power-max output etc.
As far as a "single speaker source" the SM60F goes quite a bit lower than the Sm80 (based on midband sensitivity) and the SM60F has an extended HF response (due to the smaller HF driver).
So to me I would choose the SM60F as more "hifi" or full range. Of course the SM80 was designed to be used with a sub-so the low freq does not go as low.
The Sm80 in in a sealed box-so the LF rolloff is not as steep as a ported box.
If you want to "extend" the LF of the SM80 a bit you can add a boost down around 100hz. This is not an issue untill you get really loud-for a couple of reasons.
Since it is a sealed box, the impedance down low get real high-so very little power is going to the driver (so no problem there). Also the sealed box helps to prevent overexcursion. The cabinet will "tell you" when it has had enough. It will "bark" at you. So simply turn the boost down.
To me-the first question is "how loud" does the speaker need to go?" and go from there.
With enough "subbage" the Sm80 will "do" quite a large crowd. Next Saturday (sept 7th) there will be a free event in the Dallas/ft worth area (not sure where) where the band WAR (low rider etc) will be playing for several thousand people (i think that is the expected turnout). The PA will be a single SM80 per side and a single BC415 per side outside.
If anybody is interested-I will find out where-times etc
PS-if money is an issue-there is a "different version" of the Sm80 that is less money. It is the fully weatherized (heavy duty thermo molded cabinet) OS80. It is larger-but weighs less and goes lower in freq-due to the larger internal volume-so it is more of a "stand alone" cabinet.
As with most things-there are advantages and disadvantages to everything. So here are a few personal comments/thoughts
There are the obvious differences-price-size-coverage pattern etc.
The SM80 gets quite a bit louder than the SM60F. I honestly feel the specs on the SM80 are a bit on the conservative side-and plan on taking a "second look" at power-max output etc.
As far as a "single speaker source" the SM60F goes quite a bit lower than the Sm80 (based on midband sensitivity) and the SM60F has an extended HF response (due to the smaller HF driver).
So to me I would choose the SM60F as more "hifi" or full range. Of course the SM80 was designed to be used with a sub-so the low freq does not go as low.
The Sm80 in in a sealed box-so the LF rolloff is not as steep as a ported box.
If you want to "extend" the LF of the SM80 a bit you can add a boost down around 100hz. This is not an issue untill you get really loud-for a couple of reasons.
Since it is a sealed box, the impedance down low get real high-so very little power is going to the driver (so no problem there). Also the sealed box helps to prevent overexcursion. The cabinet will "tell you" when it has had enough. It will "bark" at you. So simply turn the boost down.
To me-the first question is "how loud" does the speaker need to go?" and go from there.
With enough "subbage" the Sm80 will "do" quite a large crowd. Next Saturday (sept 7th) there will be a free event in the Dallas/ft worth area (not sure where) where the band WAR (low rider etc) will be playing for several thousand people (i think that is the expected turnout). The PA will be a single SM80 per side and a single BC415 per side outside.
If anybody is interested-I will find out where-times etc
PS-if money is an issue-there is a "different version" of the Sm80 that is less money. It is the fully weatherized (heavy duty thermo molded cabinet) OS80. It is larger-but weighs less and goes lower in freq-due to the larger internal volume-so it is more of a "stand alone" cabinet.
Re: Danley SM 80 vs SM 60F?
Please make a video of this event. If what you say is true I am sold.
Please make a video of this event. If what you say is true I am sold.
Re: Danley SM 80 vs SM 60F?
I have no idea what relationships are in place here.
I won't be there. The production guy is the only one I know. I will ask-but there are often some issues with somebody who is working the show doing video and posting it unless authorized by the artist.
I have no idea what relationships are in place here.
Re: Danley SM 80 vs SM 60F?
Haven't done a direct comparison personally, but we use a lot of the SM60F's and SM96's in installs and love them. They are surprisingly loud for their size, but they aren't 'rock' loud. Depends on which fits the coverage vs required max SPL best. Play with the free Danley modeling software, for virtual shootout, how evenly they cover over distance, etc.
Haven't done a direct comparison personally, but we use a lot of the SM60F's and SM96's in installs and love them. They are surprisingly loud for their size, but they aren't 'rock' loud. Depends on which fits the coverage vs required max SPL best. Play with the free Danley modeling software, for virtual shootout, how evenly they cover over distance, etc.
Re: Danley SM 80 vs SM 60F?
Hi Ivan,
How does the wood SM80 compare to the poly composite OS80? I see the spec sheet rates the OS80 1db lower sensitivity.
Obviously the OS80 goes a little lower, how about sound quality?
Can the OS80 yoke be modified for installing on a speaker stand?
Thanks and good health, Weogo
Hi Ivan,
How does the wood SM80 compare to the poly composite OS80? I see the spec sheet rates the OS80 1db lower sensitivity.
Obviously the OS80 goes a little lower, how about sound quality?
Can the OS80 yoke be modified for installing on a speaker stand?
Thanks and good health, Weogo
Craig Hauber
Sophomore
Re: Danley SM 80 vs SM 60F?
The continuous dB SPL figure is impressive, but the program figure would probably drown-out an atomic bomb! :razz:
The continuous dB SPL figure is impressive, but the program figure would probably drown-out an atomic bomb! :razz:
Re: Danley SM 80 vs SM 60F?
Yes, just modded one yesterday during a demo. I would use the K&M 19580 for the larger support area.
Yes, just modded one yesterday during a demo. I would use the K&M 19580 for the larger support area.
Re: Danley SM 80 vs SM 60F?
I have used the SH 50 (had one for a short time) but have not used or heard the SM60. I do own a pair of SM80's and for what I do, they absolutely scream. They will seriously outrun the pair of TH115's I have (powered by an IT 6000) if left unthrottled. They are also very hi fi in comparison to the typical speakers in their size range (The EV Zx5 sounds like nails on a chalk board in comparison). Did an outdoor show with them a few weeks ago, about 300-400 people with a great band, and got tons of compliments on the sound (it was a country-popish act featuring several guys who made records in the 70's) and the genre of music didn't suffer too much from the lack of low end that I probably could've doubled or tripled and not outrun the SM80's.
The SM80 over BC415's combo mentioned in an earlier post seems like a good one and I would not be surprised it could cover up to 1000. Would be nice to have some bass bins that one guy could handle...if they came up with a scalable version of the BC that broke into 4, I might consider it, LOL.
I have used the SH 50 (had one for a short time) but have not used or heard the SM60. I do own a pair of SM80's and for what I do, they absolutely scream. They will seriously outrun the pair of TH115's I have (powered by an IT 6000) if left unthrottled. They are also very hi fi in comparison to the typical speakers in their size range (The EV Zx5 sounds like nails on a chalk board in comparison). Did an outdoor show with them a few weeks ago, about 300-400 people with a great band, and got tons of compliments on the sound (it was a country-popish act featuring several guys who made records in the 70's) and the genre of music didn't suffer too much from the lack of low end that I probably could've doubled or tripled and not outrun the SM80's.
The SM80 over BC415's combo mentioned in an earlier post seems like a good one and I would not be surprised it could cover up to 1000. Would be nice to have some bass bins that one guy could handle...if they came up with a scalable version of the BC that broke into 4, I might consider it, LOL.
Re: Danley SM 80 vs SM 60F?
Hi Mike,
Thanks for the info, the 19580 looks like a solid solution.
I have custom yokes on a couple of boxes and they sure makes aiming easy.
Good health, Weogo
Hi Mike,
Thanks for the info, the 19580 looks like a solid solution.
I have custom yokes on a couple of boxes and they sure makes aiming easy.
Good health, Weogo
Re: Danley SM 80 vs SM 60F?
I have not done a lot of listening to the two different boxes-as they are intended for different applications and not a A or B type thing.
The composite case is not your average "plastic box". It is a VERY tough material-they make truck hoods-guardrails and such out of them.
There are also a lot of "bends" and such in it-that add strength (like bending metal).
The whole cabinet is built such that the baffle is a 3/4" thick heavy duty composite material that is tied to the fly points on the sides and rear of the cabinet. Then the horn (which weighs 11lbs by itself and is very strong) is then also bolted to this baffle-which ties the whole cabinet together.
The construction is such that you could rip away the entire outer shell and the cabinet would still fly just fine. The xover-driver and horn all mounted to the center baffle-so the cabinet is "along for the ride". The U bracket in anchored directly to this baffle-so the cabinet is not taking an weight.
The reason for the lower sensitivity is we use a slightly different coax driver. It is the ceramic version (the SM80 uses the neo version). The HF driver in the ceramic version has a slighty lower output up high-so it is not as "bright" as the SM80.
The crossover is the same.
This driver was choosen so the OS 80 would meet a price point-as it is less expensive-but the performance differences are so minimal that in most cases it doesn't matter.
The way we demo the OS80 is we have a bracket (I forget who makes it) that has a pole cup attached to a piece of square tube-which we mount to the U bracket.
So yes-it is easy to pole mount the OS 80.
I have not done a lot of listening to the two different boxes-as they are intended for different applications and not a A or B type thing.
The composite case is not your average "plastic box". It is a VERY tough material-they make truck hoods-guardrails and such out of them.
There are also a lot of "bends" and such in it-that add strength (like bending metal).
The whole cabinet is built such that the baffle is a 3/4" thick heavy duty composite material that is tied to the fly points on the sides and rear of the cabinet. Then the horn (which weighs 11lbs by itself and is very strong) is then also bolted to this baffle-which ties the whole cabinet together.
The construction is such that you could rip away the entire outer shell and the cabinet would still fly just fine. The xover-driver and horn all mounted to the center baffle-so the cabinet is "along for the ride". The U bracket in anchored directly to this baffle-so the cabinet is not taking an weight.
The reason for the lower sensitivity is we use a slightly different coax driver. It is the ceramic version (the SM80 uses the neo version). The HF driver in the ceramic version has a slighty lower output up high-so it is not as "bright" as the SM80.
The crossover is the same.
This driver was choosen so the OS 80 would meet a price point-as it is less expensive-but the performance differences are so minimal that in most cases it doesn't matter.
The way we demo the OS80 is we have a bracket (I forget who makes it) that has a pole cup attached to a piece of square tube-which we mount to the U bracket.
So yes-it is easy to pole mount the OS 80.
Re: Danley SM 80 vs SM 60F?
The air does become a bit non linear at that level
OOPS-thanks for the type catch.
The air does become a bit non linear at that level
Re: Danley SM 80 vs SM 60F?
Part of the "magic" of the BC415 (and people are freaking out about more and more-the kind of thing you really have to hear/experience to believe it) is the alignment-which requires the physical size-so if it was broken down it would lose some performance.
That being said-we are playing with the idea of that type of alignment (but with different drivers) in a cabinet that will go lower and louder. It would be modular and the final size would be 10'x10'. That would offer a lot of directivity quite low.
The BC415 already has about 10dB forward directivity around 70-80Hz. It is around 3 or 4dB (I don't remember) down at 30Hz-in a single cabinet.
That would be the TH118----------------------------
Part of the "magic" of the BC415 (and people are freaking out about more and more-the kind of thing you really have to hear/experience to believe it) is the alignment-which requires the physical size-so if it was broken down it would lose some performance.
That being said-we are playing with the idea of that type of alignment (but with different drivers) in a cabinet that will go lower and louder. It would be modular and the final size would be 10'x10'. That would offer a lot of directivity quite low.
The BC415 already has about 10dB forward directivity around 70-80Hz. It is around 3 or 4dB (I don't remember) down at 30Hz-in a single cabinet.
Re: Danley SM 80 vs SM 60F?
Ivy Everyone being familiar with th118. May question is:
How many th118 = 1 BC412 and how many th118 = BC415?
The short answer please.
Ivy Everyone being familiar with th118. May question is:
How many th118 = 1 BC412 and how many th118 = BC415?
The short answer please.
Re: Danley SM 80 vs SM 60F?
Are you talking about with the same level input or maximum capabilities?
There are all sorts of different ways to compare products-so that has to be more specific
The question has to be asked-At what freq?
The TH118 goes lower than the BC412-so at 35Hz the answer is going to be different than at 45Hz.
And the response curve is slightly different between the different models-so that number will also change as you change freq.
But "assuming" the question is "within the intended passband of the "lessor" (freq response wise) a rough guess could be figured out.
So if you look at "the math" then both the BC412 and BC415 are "equal" to 4 TH118s.
The BC412 and BC415 are only 1dB apart in terms of max output spec.
I can assure you the "effective SPL" (or what it seems like to a person-not a measurement system) is much larger than that.
The BC415 is just "bigger" sounding.
I have not compared 4 TH118s to either of them-but going from a single TH118 to either one (as switched in the demo room), there is a huge difference-I would guess much larger than 6dB.
I am not sure how much of this is actual (as in measured) or apparent (as in "feeling"). THe BC cabinets just "appear" to have more impact. This could be from the added directivity they have (so as not to energize other parts of the room) so the energy is mostly going forward.
For portability/scalability the TH118 wins hands down-no question. But until I prove to myself otherwise-I would take the BC415 in terms of extension-fun-impact etc.
The big difference between the BC412 and the BC415 is the low freq extension. They are a different type of horn alignment-that a patent is applied for.
When you say "=" I assume it is maximum output? or price or size or weight or SPL/dollar or something else?
Are you talking about with the same level input or maximum capabilities?
There are all sorts of different ways to compare products-so that has to be more specific
The question has to be asked-At what freq?
The TH118 goes lower than the BC412-so at 35Hz the answer is going to be different than at 45Hz.
And the response curve is slightly different between the different models-so that number will also change as you change freq.
But "assuming" the question is "within the intended passband of the "lessor" (freq response wise) a rough guess could be figured out.
So if you look at "the math" then both the BC412 and BC415 are "equal" to 4 TH118s.
The BC412 and BC415 are only 1dB apart in terms of max output spec.
I can assure you the "effective SPL" (or what it seems like to a person-not a measurement system) is much larger than that.
The BC415 is just "bigger" sounding.
I have not compared 4 TH118s to either of them-but going from a single TH118 to either one (as switched in the demo room), there is a huge difference-I would guess much larger than 6dB.
I am not sure how much of this is actual (as in measured) or apparent (as in "feeling"). THe BC cabinets just "appear" to have more impact. This could be from the added directivity they have (so as not to energize other parts of the room) so the energy is mostly going forward.
For portability/scalability the TH118 wins hands down-no question. But until I prove to myself otherwise-I would take the BC415 in terms of extension-fun-impact etc.
The big difference between the BC412 and the BC415 is the low freq extension. They are a different type of horn alignment-that a patent is applied for.
Re: Danley SM 80 vs SM 60F?
Since this topic swerve is already well underway...
Ivan, how would you compare the BC415 to the TH812? The specs say the TH812 goes a bit lower, and louder there, but what is your "feeling"?
Since this topic swerve is already well underway...
Ivan, how would you compare the BC415 to the TH812? The specs say the TH812 goes a bit lower, and louder there, but what is your "feeling"?