New Midas M32 Console

Re: New Midas M32 Console

Dear Tim,

While I completly agree with you regarding the (almost) non existent sonic differences based purely on the Sampling Frequency, i have to admitt, there is at least one very important factor also in Live Audio. The higher the sampling frequecy is, the less latency you will get at the end. It could be useful to have less latency if you are using IEMs and for example Digital wireless microphones (with their own ~3 mSec latency).

Cheers,

Tamas
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Do the Midas Stage boxes that are presently available work with either 48k or 96k or are they only 96k? If they are only 96k then that would be a good reason to want the M32 to operate at 96k.
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Kevin Maxwell said:
Do the Midas Stage boxes that are presently available work with either 48k or 96k or are they only 96k? If they are only 96k then that would be a good reason to want the M32 to operate at 96k.
Click to expand...
The DL251 is both 48k/96k, the DL153 will be before long. I wouldn't be surprised if other stage rack models follow as well.
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Tamas Tako said:
Dear Tim,

While I completly agree with you regarding the (almost) non existent sonic differences based purely on the Sampling Frequency, i have to admitt, there is at least one very important factor also in Live Audio. The higher the sampling frequecy is, the less latency you will get at the end. It could be useful to have less latency if you are using IEMs and for example Digital wireless microphones (with their own ~3 mSec latency).

Cheers,

Tamas
Click to expand...

Agreed on the processing latency. The IEM users need less of that; I find it curious that a number of artists on IEM use VENUE systems with lots of plug-ins that create additional latency. Perhaps the use of ambient or spatial processing masks the performer's perception of the additional processing time?

Anyway, the purpose of my little curmudgeonly rant is to pop the bubble of "specialness" that gets attached to a perceived audition. I have no doubt that the M32 will be an acceptable product and that it will more than justify its purchase costs, but let's not get carried away with hype.
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Tamas Tako said:
Dear Tim,

While I completly agree with you regarding the (almost) non existent sonic differences based purely on the Sampling Frequency, i have to admitt, there is at least one very important factor also in Live Audio. The higher the sampling frequecy is, the less latency you will get at the end. It could be useful to have less latency if you are using IEMs and for example Digital wireless microphones (with their own ~3 mSec latency).

Cheers,

Tamas
Click to expand...

When the x32 was still new I asked about it's latency wrt IEM applications and users reported no problem, so less than no problem is still no problem.

JR
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Caleb Dick said:
The DL251 is both 48k/96k, the DL153 will be before long. I wouldn't be surprised if other stage rack models follow as well.
Click to expand...
I dont understand. If m32 does 96khZ why dont they release it with 96khz? They make you buy all the hardware and then switch. If they have not finished work on 96 khz they have not finished testing 96 khz. So there is a chance it will never be upgraded.
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Dear All,
Just for clarity, the X32 and M32 consoles both have a latency of around 0.8ms from analog in to analog out. This is easily measurable and verifiable, and to our knowledge is the best spec of any comparable console in the market.
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Dear Fredrik,
Quite often the “group of 8” routing on the X32 is not a real limitation in practice. This grouping pertains to which 38 (4 blocks of 8 + possible 6 Aux In Remap) input signals are available to assign to input channels. Once this has been decided, the chosen inputs can be patched to any channel strip (i.e. Input 1 to Channel 9). The Aux In Remap feature also provides a way to bring in 2, 4, or 6 channels from the card slot, AES50, or the console’s local mic preamps, in addition to the 32 inputs chosen.

This means that if you are using 2 S16 stage boxes for 32 inputs, you can use Aux In Remap to also bring in up to 6 of the console mic preamps or playback tracks from a computer. These inputs can then be patched to any of the 32 complete channel strips, or you can leave them on the AUX return channels which still feature 4-band parametric EQ. Likewise if you only need to use 1-6 inputs on a S16, you could make it the first S16 in your AES50 chain and bring in those 6 channels via Aux In Remap, leaving your first 4 banks of 8 available for bringing in signals from other S16s or elsewhere.

If you would like to tell us a bit more about your scenario perhaps we can find a suitable workaround.
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Daniel Levi said:
Someone opened up an x32 and there was a input switching chip that is limited to switching in groups of 8.
Click to expand...
So this guy was able to look at the fpga and decide that switching could only be done in groups of eight. I don't think so...

The fpga is doing all of the i/o routing in the x32. The groups of eight is a limitation due to how the fpga is programmed together with the gui. Doing a recoding to allow for individual routing will take substantial programming to accomplish and is something that won't happen, at least not in the v2 firmware...
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Robert Lofgren said:
So this guy was able to look at the fpga and decide that switching could only be done in groups of eight. I don't think so...

The fpga is doing all of the i/o routing in the x32. The groups of eight is a limitation due to how the fpga is programmed together with the gui. Doing a recoding to allow for individual routing will take substantial programming to accomplish and is something that won't happen, at least not in the v2 firmware...
Click to expand...


Didn't think the switching was done in the FPGA, thought that was only for the AES50 connectivity. Believe there is a separate 192x192 switching chip that operates in grou9ps of 8 hence the limitation.
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Tim McCulloch said:
Well, I didn't address the other issues, but since you insist:

96k is voodoo bullshit in LIVE audio. If you're recording for potential public release, you MIGHT hear a difference at the studio/mastering stage. IMNSHO by the time it arrives in the public's ears, any differences will be moot. From a live sonic standpoint, I'll wager that 99% of audio engineers could not correctly & consistently identify 48/96 mixing in situ in live audio circumstances. There are blind studies of this in controlled listening environments and the successful identification there was <15%. These were "golden ears" folks listening on gear that is specifically designed for critical listening, not PA for the masses.

The only advantages I can see to the M32 are direct connectability to the K-T world of signal distribution and more robust faders. The nicer design of the desk itself is also welcome... but in the end, it's still an X32 in Midas drag (and drag is VERY British ;) ). If there is some sonic difference, it's a DIFFERENCE (and therefore a MARKETING "feature")... but to claim that a difference makes for sonic superiority, in and of itself, is disingenuous and intellectually dishonest. You can like, prefer, and exclusively use this difference if you like, but it's no more superior than anything else.

Or if it helps the ridiculously strong placebo effect here, consider the X32 to a crippled M32 in Behringer drag....
Click to expand...


ok so you picking a fight for the sake of picking a fight now. The reason I want it 96K is so that it will work with the rest of the midas range and before anybody says anything yes i know the stage boxes run at 48k now as well but the desk only run at 96k.
I'm not gonna get in an argument about whether its an X32 in drag or not because bottom line its all the same company yes it shares some of the stuff the same but quite a lot of the software was written by Midas anyways so why argue.
the whole desk will be better based on build quality and parts I've explained why I'm excited about it and don't really wish to argue about whether its marketing or not.
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Mike Devore said:
Daniel, that's great to know. I would hate to cut the end off a snake fan (or unscrew the cap and pull it out) due to the desk not releasing the XLR as many of my "B" friends have had to do.
I am saying that the DL16, having the Pre's that it will, is what will help me wait until they are available. (I'll just drag out my copper 32 if the money burns a hole in my pocket) (grin)
Unless I'm not reading things right, the M32 and the DL16 have all the better PRO series parts. It doesn't matter the core is X-32. As stable as I have read and heard from owners and forums, I'm sure the desk will be reliable as the Midas name. (future 96K !)
I mean not to sound like a "B" bash-er. I mean no disrespect to the product, its not a product i care to own. I was close to purchasing the x-32 last summer but I held out and saved enough to get a Pro-2. Now I'm ready for a lighter and smaller desk on the smaller jobs. The M-32/DL16 fits all the requirements. The fact it's branded "Midas" has everything to do with it as well. It could be built in the "B's" bathroom, I don't care.
Thanks to all that allow me to voice my opinion here...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyDRkcY-RYA
Click to expand...



just so your aware this has appeared on the Midas website
http://www.midasconsoles.com/Products/DL16.aspx#prettyPhoto

not sure what the hashtage pretty photo is about :-p
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Peter Morris said:
Well there you go, Uli will write Midas on anything - I wonder if my Pro2 will be worth any more than an X32 by the end of the year?
Click to expand...
It's not exactly the same as the S16 it will have the same frontend as the M32, so pro series pre's and convertors. Plus as the M32 is currently 48khz and due to it's price it seems sensible to have a matching and cheaper stagebox.
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Dear All,

While the DL16 shares the same enclosure as the S16, it is not the same. The DL16 features the same MIDAS preamps and output section including AD/DA converters as the PRO Series consoles, which amounts to an approx. 3-4 dB better S/N than the X32. Aside from that, it also uses Neutrik etherCON and XLR connectors, in line with the MIDAS philosophy.

Best,
Chase McKnight
Specialist, Channel Marketing
MUSIC Group
MIDAS
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Chase McKnight said:
Dear All,

While the DL16 shares the same enclosure as the S16, it is not the same. The DL16 features the same MIDAS preamps and output section including AD/DA converters as the PRO Series consoles, which amounts to an approx. 3-4 dB better S/N than the X32. Aside from that, it also uses Neutrik etherCON and XLR connectors, in line with the MIDAS philosophy.

Best,
Chase McKnight
Specialist, Channel Marketing
MUSIC Group
MIDAS
Click to expand...

Some time ago I owned EAW and Crest products. Both companies were then bought by MI companies, Loud Technologies and Peavey respectively.

Mackie speakers became “designed by EAW” and had EAW [Gunness] Focusing. Mackie’s advertising and branding included references to EAW all over the place and manufacturing was transferred to China.

EAW at one point in time was the most rider accepted concert speaker in the world. It’s still worth more than Behringer, but in 2014 its hard to find a rider with any reference to EAW on it. (and they still make great speakers) The Pro world is waiting to see if the same happens to Midas, KT and Turbosound.

Putting Midas pre’s in a Behringer product and then putting a Midas badge on it may sell a lot of M32s but it greatly devalues the pro Status of Midas. I have heard people say that Music Group only wanted Midas and Turbosound for their name.

As I understand, when the X32 was first introsduced, Behringer said it had Midas pre-amps.
http://www.behringer.com/en/products/x32.aspx
http://www.behringer.com/en/products/S16.aspx
Then in this case the only difference is the connectors, the A/D’s and the badge …anyway …

It takes about 5 years to get a product on a rider; the problem for Music Group is that’s about 2 year longer than their apparent product focus.

There is still no editor for the latest Pro series firmware nor a really good reverb, my Flex TFL 600 and TMW115 wedges have be made obsolete when they were replaced with the new Flex TFL104 and TWM152 as part of the 140 new models released at Plasa.
Then I’m told the price has dropped by 30% - not in my part of the world! And now you have changed the name back … so they weren’t new products after all? Not a good look, but an improvement - thankyou for changing them back.

Unfortunately for me I own both Midas and Turbosound. Everything Music Group seems to do lately makes me wish I owned something else … sorry. I do love my Flex and Pro2, they are excellent products and I wanted to buy more, but gee you guys are making it difficult for me to see Flashline / Flex array and Midas Pro series remaining on riders.

Regards
Peter
 
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Re: New Midas M32 Console

Peter Morris said:
Some time ago I owned EAW and Crest products. Both companies were then bought by MI companies, Loud Technologies and Peavey respectively.

Mackie speakers became “designed by EAW” and had EAW [Gunness] Focusing. Mackie’s advertising and branding included references to EAW all over the place and manufacturing was transferred to China.

EAW at one point in time was the most rider accepted concert speaker in the world. It’s still worth more than Behringer, but in 2014 its hard to find a rider with any reference to EAW on it. (and they still make great speakers) The Pro world is waiting to see if the same happens to Midas, KT and Turbosound.

Putting Midas pre’s in a Behringer product and then putting a Midas badge on it may sell a lot of M32s but it greatly devalues the pro Status of Midas. I have heard people say that Music Group only wanted Midas and Turbosound for their name.

As I understand, when the X32 was first introsduced, Behringer said it had Midas pre-amps.
http://www.behringer.com/en/products/x32.aspx
http://www.behringer.com/en/products/S16.aspx
Then in this case the only difference is the connectors, the A/D’s and the badge …anyway …

It takes about 5 years to get a product on a rider; the problem for Music Group is that’s about 2 year longer than their apparent product focus.

There is still no editor for the latest Pro series firmware nor a really good reverb, my Flex TFL 600 and TMW115 wedges have be made obsolete when they were replaced with the new Flex TFL104 and TWM152 as part of the 140 new models released at Plasa.
Then I’m told the price has dropped by 30% - not in my part of the world! And now you have changed the name back … so they weren’t new products after all? Not a good look, but an improvement - thankyou for changing them back.

Unfortunately for me I own both Midas and Turbosound. Everything Music Group seems to do lately makes me wish I owned something else … sorry. I do love my Flex and Pro2, they are excellent products and I wanted to buy more, but gee you guys are making it difficult for me to see Flashline / Flex array and Midas Pro series remaining on riders.

Regards
Peter
Click to expand...

Riders are typically specific about which model/product lines are preferred even within brands. I see riders all the time with EAW.

J.B.L. seems to have some real "crapola" lines on the lower end, yet they are on riders all the time.
 
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