X32 Discussion

Re: Something positive. For jazz lovers this is gonna be great.

Jared Koopman said:
We use Reaper as well. Its not too expensive and has plenty of power behind it.
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Nice to know some of you are using Reaper, I'm still in my trial, but so far have found it really handy for it's price. For those using Reaper, are you using it for post as well, or just to get your recording, and use something else (audacity/proTools)? I'm not seeing much potential in reaper for the actual post work, besides maybe general EQ and effects.
 
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Re: Something positive. For jazz lovers this is gonna be great.

I use Reaper just for recording altough it can do lots more. It's whatever you are used to i guess. I find it handy that i can take a project with me without exporting it to my choice of platform. But that's just me used to Nuendo.
 
Re: Something positive. For jazz lovers this is gonna be great.

One thing I like with Reaper is that it handles multiple takes really well. What I don't like with nearly all DAWs is that they are not Cubase, I know my way around Cubase and am too old to learn my way around a new neighbourhood.
 
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Re: Something positive. For jazz lovers this is gonna be great.

But i also have a Protools rig which is old as hell but still functions fine for what it does. Importing stuff into Nuendo that is ;) For a Audio guy Protools is fine as well Nice musical editing system there which i never figured out in Reaper (Lazy and an age thing).
 
Re: X32 Rack

Pete Garyga said:
I want an X32 rack now! 8)~:cool:~:cool:

Pete.
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Me too, had a gig today where I couldn't use the X32, running any lines to any reasonable foh position was a pita and there was no space for me to set up foh of any kind without compromising audience space. I could have set the X32 up in another room and run a cat cable from the stage rack and then used a laptop or iPad, but that seemed like overkill for the gig. Had there been a X32Rack in my rack, setup would have been a lot simpler and I wouldn't have had to compromise on anything. Can't wait much longer, and hopefully I won't have to :)~:)~:smile:
 
Re: X32 Rack

Per Søvik said:
Me too, had a gig today where I couldn't use the X32, running any lines to any reasonable foh position was a pita and there was no space for me to set up foh of any kind without compromising audience space. I could have set the X32 up in another room and run a cat cable from the stage rack and then used a laptop or iPad, but that seemed like overkill for the gig. Had there been a X32Rack in my rack, setup would have been a lot simpler and I wouldn't have had to compromise on anything. Can't wait much longer, and hopefully I won't have to :)~:)~:smile:
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+1 ;)
 
Re: PNW AES Audio Over Ethernet Cables Workshop Moderator Conclusions v. 2.0

Hi All,

We had our workshop on Saturday, and it went astonishingly well, managed to maintain audience interest for a full day, and we were able to at least partially disrupt the data transmission in an Ethernet cable. I written some personal conclusions that I drew from our experiences, and share them with you here.

Note that these are all my personal feelings, and in no way reflect the Audio Engineering Society, the Pacific Northwest Section, or anyone else.

A fuller meeting summary will soon appear on the PNW AES website in the Archives section.

http://www.aes.org/sections/pnw/pnwrecaps/

It is not there yet, and I don't know when it will be.

Dan

===================

THESE CONCLUSIONS MAY ONLY APPLY TO THE SUPERMAC (AES-50 compliant) PROPRIETARY POINT-TO-POINT DIGITAL AUDIO CONNECTION TECHNOLOGY; relevance to other Ethernet-cable-based audio transport is neither proven nor alleged, except that measurement device results (in this case from a Fluke DTX-1800) will say whether or not a cable passes acceptability testing for use as an Ethernet CategoryX cable . We used Behringer X32 Digital Consoles and Behringer S16 Digital Snake heads for our tests.


1) We were able to disrupt the data transmission of every cable we tried, including Cat5, Cat5e, Cat6, Cat6a, whether shielded (screened) or unshielded (unscreened) EXCEPT for the Belden 10GX24 Cat6a U/UTP. However, that cable does not have a robust outer jacket, and may not be suitable for portable live sound usage.


2) The data transmission disruptions we were able to achieve at our event were of very short duration, as opposed to the disruptions I experienced on one occasion inadvertently and on another occasion on purpose with a specific 200' piece of Belden 7923A U/UTP. Those disruptions lasted as long as I kept pulling the cable and stopped only when I stopped pulling on the cable, and started again immediately when I pulled on the cable and stopped when I stopped pulling. Those disruptions also generated bursts of white noise from the audio outputs which lasted as long as the disruptions, and the data screens on the consoles blinked and sputtered simultaneously for the duration. I failed many other times to disrupt the data transmission when trying, using the exact same piece of cable. The disruptions at this event caused the screens to momentarily blink, and created "pops" from the audio outputs. I have no explanation for the discrepancy.


3) The physical force required to disrupt the data transmission at our event was significantly greater than what I exerted on the two previously-described occasions. I have no explanation for this.


4) The forces required to disrupt the data transmission are a combination of squeezing/pinching the cable while simultaneously pulling it through the pinching location. Objects used to create the pinching did not seem to be material-specific; we used parallel electrical wires and a wooden broom stick handle parallel to a length of metal conduit, all squeezed with one or two person's hands.


5) We were also able to disrupt the data transmission by having 20 or more people stomping on the same piece of Belden 7923A cable while it laid on a flat hardwood floor. After that, we were able to disrupt by having one person stomp on the cable on the floor while the other people were not on it, but another person trying the same thing could not disrupt the data transmission. We did not try this technique with other cables. Note that this specific piece of Belden 7923A registered "PASS" on the Fluke DTX-1800 meter AFTER the abuse testing.


6) The disruption of the data transmission can occur within a single pair, which we determined by stripping the jacket from the middle of a C2G CA19378 Cat5e U/UTP 150' cable and pinching and pulling each pair separately. All pairs exhibited the same behavior while disrupting data.


7) We wrapped an inexpensive Richland E257448 Cat5e U/UTP 25' 40+ times around a 12" length of black-iron water pipe, and it still registered "PASS" on a Fluke DTX-1800 meter. From this, we conclude that CAT5e cables are likely to be unaffected by casual contact with or juxtaposition to random ferrous objects.


8) Placing a relatively intense source of RF interference (AC cable to and from a barely-choked lighting dimmer and its 1KW lighting load) near, on, and across a Cat5e cable did not interfere with the SuperMAC data transmission.


9) Things we learned from our Experts:
A) The solid copper wire in today's CATegory cables is vastly superior to previous generations of solid copper wire in terms of resistance to repeated flexing. Degradation of wire due to normal repeated use is much less of an issue than we'd expect.
B) From an American perspective, the European obsession with shielding (screening) cables is overblown, and a response to a problem that has not been demonstrated to exist at a significant enough level to need a solution. Unshielded (unscreened) cables work just fine in almost every application, except for specific environments with very high levels of specific RF interference. The vast, vast, vast majority of users will not benefit from using shielded (screened) cables, nor will they suffer ill effects from not doing so. That said, there are specific legal requirements to use shielded cable in certain situations in many legal jurisdictions, and the wise user will pay close attention to those requirements.
C) The RJ-45 connector was designed for a very different usage than with Category cables, and as the desired network speed increases into the future, it will be unsuited for those fast, fast speeds. At the existing ragged edge, it may be already unsuited, and performance may suffer.
D) Many RJ-45 connectors are unsuited for use with shielded (screened) connectors, even those apparently designed for the purpose, and the grounding connection, especially for shielded cables without a drainwire, seems tenuous at best when compared to a soldered connection.


10) To extrapolate from #9A above, we drove over the middle of a 137' Belden Brilliance Video Low Skew RGB7988P Cat5e U/UTP cable, placed on a solid hardwood floor and connected between console and snakehead, with both of the front solid rubber tires of a scissor lift having a stated weight of over 900# per wheel, so there was damage in two places on the cable. This driving over was repeated at least 20 times. It permanently changed the shape of the cable from round to very, very flat, but did not disrupt the data transmission at all, and the damaged cable still measured "PASS" on the Fluke DTX-1800 meter when removed and measured. This passing grade says nothing about the life of the cable, but it does indicate that you are unlikely to have immediate data transmission disruption from driving over the cable with a vehicle. We were going to test another cable by driving over it with a 10,000# GVW 14' box truck's tires, but felt that the scissor-lift test showed that we were unlikely to create damage using inflated rubber tires.


11) Things we forgot/didn't get to:
A) All Ethernet circuits balance each twisted pair, and the balancing is (always?) done with surprisingly high quality balancing transformers on each end of each pair, thus providing galvanic isolation between the devices at each end.
B) We intended to (but didn't) test the effect of having vastly different yet realistic ground potentials on
i) the AC supplied to the console
ii) the AC supplied to the snake head
and then comparing the effect on data transmission/audio quality output when the two devices are connected by U/UTP and then F/UTP cables.
C) We only used the Behringer consoles to examine data disruption. We did have a Roland M400 digital console and snake head present, but
i) there was no one advocating its use,
ii) I was told it exclusively uses a crossover Ethernet cable,
iii) the disruptive physical forces we were using could permanently degrade a cable,
iv) I didn't want to wreck the cable that came with it or spend time figuring out how to use one of our sample cables,
v) ultimately time disappeared before we could test it. There were no other Audio-Over-Ethernet-Cable devices present.

YMMV.
 
Re: X32 Edit now available form Behringer

Daniel Levi said:
Saw this posted on the behringer forums and though I would share it.
On the downloads page for the compact is a new version of the x32 software called X32 edit, this is X Control with support for the other members of the x32 family.

To download see here: Windows: http://www.behringerdownload.de/X32/X32-Edit_PC.zip

Mac: http://www.behringerdownload.de/X32/X32-Edit_MAC.zip

Linux: http://www.behringerdownload.de/X32/XControl_Linux_V1.01.tar.bz2
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Pity it still doesnt support full screen mode and I noticed in the release notes that the iPad version is now called X32-Mix , hmm whens that getting released ???
 
Re: X32 Rack

Per Søvik said:
I could have set the X32 up in another room and run a cat cable from the stage rack and then used a laptop or iPad, but that seemed like overkill for the gig.
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I have a friend who's daughter had a birthday last weekend so I provided the sound. Due to the weather conditions and since this was mostly an outdoor event I located the x32 in one of the small houses in the area and put the s16 at the outdoor 'stage' and rolled out my cat5.

I remote controlled the mixer with my iPad while eating and drinking :) That felt really nice!
 
Weird Scribble Strip bug!

Fun new thing on my X32- scribble strip background stuck on black on 3 channels. Will not change either from console or remote editor. Same 3 channels work fine on the next bank down. Any ideas?

Edit: I'm dumb. No input selected. I really shouldn't play with so many different consoles...tough to keep workflow straight! Although it would be nice if Behringer dummy proofed the console and changed the backlight anyway, perhaps with a "no input" listed.
 
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Re: Weird Scribble Strip bug!

With regard to the scribble script, I find it very easy to accidentally change the scribble script for ch 1 by accident. Personally, I think it's a bug, but if you select a channel prior to going to the setup page.

For example:
- select channel input 2 (or any input/output)
- press the 'SETUP' button
- navigate to the right to the scribble script tab
- modify it.

The scribble script for ch 1 will be modified, it seems that very often, the channel selection in the scribble script tab will not switch over to the selected channel, instead you have to either manually use the first spin encoder to the appropriate channel, or select the channel again while on the scribble script page.

We work around it for now, but it'd be nice if 'on entry' of the scribble script tab, it automatically assigned the channel to the previously selected channel.
 
Preffered Transport Position

After reading about Shanes misfortune, I too have a series of shows where my X32 will be riding in a truck this summer and was wondering should I leave the console case on its wheels (faders up/doghouse down) or should I sit the console flat (console facing up/normal operation position) on top of something else for transport?
 
Re: Weird Scribble Strip bug!

Joseph Schuurman said:
With regard to the scribble script, I find it very easy to accidentally change the scribble script for ch 1 by accident. Personally, I think it's a bug, but if you select a channel prior to going to the setup page.

For example:
- select channel input 2 (or any input/output)
- press the 'SETUP' button
- navigate to the right to the scribble script tab
- modify it.

The scribble script for ch 1 will be modified, it seems that very often, the channel selection in the scribble script tab will not switch over to the selected channel, instead you have to either manually use the first spin encoder to the appropriate channel, or select the channel again while on the scribble script page.

We work around it for now, but it'd be nice if 'on entry' of the scribble script tab, it automatically assigned the channel to the previously selected channel.
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Yesterday I had prepared scenes for the next 3 days.
First, I have labeled the scribble strips:
1. press and hold select channel 1 - then press utility
2. now label channel 1
3. with channel buttons I always go to the next and so on
it works as it should - not realizing a bug
 
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Re: Preffered Transport Position

Chris Greco said:
After reading about Shanes misfortune, I too have a series of shows where my X32 will be riding in a truck this summer and was wondering should I leave the console case on its wheels (faders up/doghouse down) or should I sit the console flat (console facing up/normal operation position) on top of something else for transport?
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I think/hope that shane's issue was due to a less than ideal repair. Hopefully shane can get the full intel from behringer when they've looked at the console...

Of what I've seen from the photos inside of the x32 I don't think the orientation when transported matters. There is perhaps a slightly higher risk when the console is upside down.

I'd probably put some kind of a blanket/foam securing the faders to stop them from jumping up and down during some bumpy ride in any case.
 
Re: Weird Scribble Strip bug!

Joseph Schuurman said:
With regard to the scribble script, I find it very easy to accidentally change the scribble script for ch 1 by accident. Personally, I think it's a bug, but if you select a channel prior to going to the setup page.
Click to expand...

I find it a very annoying quirk, and while there might be (and is) some logic in not having it default to selected channel after the scribble was removed from the channel home screen and put into the setup screen, I'm finding it a lot less intuitive than it used to be. I'm sure it will pass as the muscle memory of old is replaced by the new way of doing it.
 
Re: Preffered Transport Position

Robert Lofgren said:
I'd probably put some kind of a blanket/foam securing the faders to stop them from jumping up and down during some bumpy ride in any case.
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Good suggestion, maybe gluing a strip of very soft foam to the lid would prevent some potential fader issues. One thing with a lot of flights though, is that the foam that supports the console is fairly dense and not very thick, so the spring rate is quite high and the "ride" that the console gets is fairly rough.
I'm a firm believer in pneumatic tires for any box that carries sensitive equipment (fixing leaky tires are a lot easier than fixing broken equipment).
Having pneumatic tires, leaving equipment standing on the wheels when packing the trailer makes the most sense, but it does require tight packaging and bits of foam for padding between cases to achieve a good ride without equipment rattling and rolling about and crashing into trailer walls etc. A nice soft drum carpet is a good thing to have for doubling up as padding.
Straps are a good thing as well ;)~;-)~:wink:
 
X32 Permissions

I know I'm late to the party but I'm finally considering the X32 for a small church upgrade. Looking through the user manual and this thread, there appears to be no permissions, no password lockouts, nothing. Am I missing something obvious?

The ability to lock down scenes and other aspects of the desk is a must for me for church use. The Yamaha LS9-32 does this fairly well but it's more than double the price.
 
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