X32 Discussion

Re: X32 Slave mode would be a cool feature

Mark Skyrme said:
The headache continues.............
Click to expand...

Ok, enough's enough for one day......:?~:-?~:???: (The grass needs cutting apparently, says the good lady!)

Mind you I now have one desk sending all parameters to the other, basically the entire OSC commands listed from the X32 documentation page into a clever little ini file that my app reads in and works out. Take a look.... 2 x32s sync - YouTube - The bottom one syncs with the top in this clip.

You'll notice that it syncs similar to X32 edit (with a lag, but no where near as long). That's because there are about 700+ lines of code being calculated. The PC is too fast for the OSC Server, so I introduced a 1ms delay between each command sent. It'll do though.
 
Re: X32 Slave mode would be a cool feature

Mark Skyrme said:
Not so sure about that! I've come across a little stumbling block, which Per mentioned a few threads back when I first thought of this linking idea.
...
I can make a complete conversion table for all master gain values, but worry this might vary slightly from console to console (and input to input). So a little more work to do to confirm this.
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I'm not sure that I understand your issue fully but I might have an insight for you.

The analog headamp doesn't actually step in 0.5dB resolution but rather in 2.5dB steps. For x32 to have a finer resolution than that they add an extra 2.0dB of digital gain whenever the analog headamp increases a step and adjust the digital gain for the 0.5dB increments.

So, whenever you set the analog gain on the slave you need to account for up to 2.0dB of digital gain depending on your setting at the master.

Did I understand your issue correctly?
 
Re: X32 Slave mode would be a cool feature

Mark Skyrme said:
Not so sure about that! I've come across a little stumbling block, which Per mentioned a few threads back when I first thought of this linking idea.
Click to expand...

Did I? I guess I'm a bit like that old Billy Swan hit "I can point it out for you", but not sure if "I can help" though.
However, I believe the gain/trim relationship is a fairly straightforward one.
The preamp gain jumps when you reach the next step, the trim is never negative in the range +60 to -2.0 and this relationship can be easily tabulated or expressed with integer functions.
The progression is "linear" as far as I know, stepped sawtooth that is within the adjustment range of the headamp and stepped linear at both ends.
The slave trim follows from the equation, so there should be no need for guesswork there, and the meter levels should come out right.

I can't quite remember what the AES50 signal looks like, but I assume for now that it is the untrimmed version of the signal that goes to the AES50 and that this is the same whether it comes off a console or the S16.

Edit: What Robert wrote.
 
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Re: X32 Slave mode would be a cool feature

Per Søvik said:
Did I?.
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You did.... to quote "There is a problem though with handling input gain if the master console is the input source. It can be worked around, but straight mirroring and passing audio from AES50 at the same time will be a problem, and doing a fully functional everything included remote control conversion will involve some careful conversion of some of the functions, but it should be totally possible."

I thought it must be an equation of some kind. I might have a look later. The sun is out in the UK for a change, so resorting to some domestic chores for a bit!

Thanks.
 
Re: X32 Slave mode would be a cool feature

Mark Skyrme said:
You did.... to quote "There is a problem though with handling input gain if the master console is the input source. It can be worked around, but straight mirroring and passing audio from AES50 at the same time will be a problem, and doing a fully functional everything included remote control conversion will involve some careful conversion of some of the functions, but it should be totally possible."

I thought it must be an equation of some kind. I might have a look later. The sun is out in the UK for a change, so resorting to some domestic chores for a bit!

Thanks.
Click to expand...

OK, that bit. What I had in mind was the obvious problem of the routing needing to be different at the two consoles, and not so much the gain/trim relationship because I see that as relatively easy :smug:

PS I'll post the function later, going to work now :(~:-(~:sad:
 
Re: X32 Slave mode would be a cool feature

Per Søvik said:
OK, that bit. What I had in mind was the obvious problem of the routing needing to be different at the two consoles, and not so much the gain/trim relationship because I see that as relatively easy :smug:

PS I'll post the function later, going to work now :(~:-(~:sad:
Click to expand...

Brilliant! If you can sort the relationship out, I reckon I might have an alpha version of the app ready sometime next week.
 
Re: X32 Slave mode would be a cool feature

Mark Skyrme said:
Brilliant! If you can sort the relationship out, I reckon I might have an alpha version of the app ready sometime next week.
Click to expand...

There are three ranges that need to be treated separately.

[-12 , -2.5] ADGain = -2, Trim = Gain -(-2)
[-2.0 , 47.5] ADGain = 0.5+2.5*INT((Gain-0.5)/2.5) , Trim=Gain - ADGain
[48.0 , 60] ADGain = 45.5 , Trim= Gain - 45.5

In other words:

IF (Gain<-2.0) THEN ADGain = -2.0,
ELSEIF (Gain<48.0) THEN ADGain = 0.5+2.5*INT((Gain-0.5)/2.5)
ELSE ADGain=45.5
END IF
Trim=Gain - ADGain

Hope this helps
 
Re: X32 Slave mode would be a cool feature

Per Søvik said:
There are three ranges that need to be treated separately...........Hope this helps
Click to expand...

The man is a genius - Excellent. Took a bit to get my head around it, but a quick pop into a spread sheet and I can see exactly what is going on. I tone tested several values and every one was spot on.

I do notice however that an input gain of over +57.5db will not be accurately represented on the slave as the trim only allows a max of +12db. For example, +60db gain would require +14db trim. I think we can all live with that. Don't recall I have ever applied that much gain to any kit I use. I'll add an option to limit the master gain to +57.5 on my app possibly.

Well, I'm very nearly there with a release now. Cheers Per.
 
Lightning strike update...

A Professional troubleshooter came in an checked out the system, and confirmed the S-16's are fried. As well as the CAT5 cable and the AES50 port on the X32 :cry:

Good thing is, insurance will cover it and we will be getting a new X32 and S16's in a coule weeks. :D~:-D~:grin:

The strike also took out two splitters, two projectors, and 8 LED cans. By all accounts, it came in through the phone lines.

Heads up to the LV service team... If you get this console from ALLPRO from Florida to check out, make sure you fix the sticky buttons too... wink..


BTW, you guys above sound like a bunch of mad scientists.... but I applaud your efforts! :lol:
 
Has anyone had problems with their X32 not receiving ANY input? I set up for a Canada Day show this weekend and plugged in the iPod to test FOH and wedges and couldn't get any signal. I tried different inputs, tried mics on various channels and still nothing. I initialized the desk, rebooted several times, tried different scenes and still nothing. I lifted the front of the desk and gently banged it in the case a few times and got some levels. Then channel 9 (with nothing plugged in and gain at lowest setting) started clipping, and iPod channel went dead. I gently banged it again and everything went back to normal.

I left the iPod playing while I set up lights and ran lines. About 30 minutes later, it stopped passing signal again. I managed to get it working again about an hour later and got a friend to bring a spare desk but the X32 worked great all night (21 inputs and 5 monitor mixes).

Yesterday I fired it up and downloaded all my presets on a stick and all the channels worked perfectly. I packed it all up in the original box and have a call into my dealer.

I've had it since February 28th and haven't had a single problem on a dozen shows. This one scared me.

Should I contact behringer directly or just let the dealer handle it? I'm in Ottawa (Canada) if that makes any difference.

Thanks,
Rocky
 
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Scribble strip gripe

So I got my first real world experience with the X32 on a live show this weekend. Aside from someone ramming into a power pole killing power to the venue for 4 hours, resulting in an emergency generator call to get back up and running within 28 minutes, things went quite smoothly.

One thing that I found as an extreme frustration is the labeling of the scribble strips. When you go into edit mode of a scribble strip, there is no indication which scribble strip you are actually editing. The channel selected shows up on the top of the screen, but when you go to edit the scribble strips, the default selected doesn't match that. If you press the select for a channel that is already lit, it does NOT jump the scribble strip selection to that channel. You need to select a different channel and then back to the one you are working on, or scroll through the list. If you hit the edit button right away, there is no longer ANY indication on the screen which channel you are messing with. So if you weren't paying attention, you end up renaming the wrong channel. That's it. I hate this board and won't ever use it again. (yeah right... the system rocked and everything else worked beautifully!)

A simple solution is on the edit screen, have it show which channel you are editing. There's plenty of screen real estate available to do that, as it's an overlay that isn't filling the screen anyway.
 
Re: Scribble strip gripe

to me there are a several things that are easier to do
on the editor than on the desk

that's one of them

fwiw
 
Re: Scribble strip gripe

Brian jojade said:
A simple solution is on the edit screen, have it show which channel you are editing. There's plenty of screen real estate available to do that, as it's an overlay that isn't filling the screen anyway.
Click to expand...

Something I found Brian, (if for nothing else), if you use the ipad to label your channels and hit return on the ipad, it moves you on to the next channel... If you are setting up your patch for the start of the day, that's a quick and dirty way to get it done. It's also handy afterwards when your on deck to carry your ipad with you, so if you are patching the next act, you can put "like instruments" in the same channels ( and be sure your are getting signal too)

Something I do to make sure I'm labelling the correct channel is holding select, and hitting utility. (which I'm sure you know), but it helps me keep track of what I'm doing...

But I agree, having at least the channel number show up in the upper left would be good...

Glad you're liking the desk... as am I - (gig #4 with console and 2 x s16 snake without a hiccup)
 
Re: Scribble strip gripe

Yes, labeling on the iPad or on the computer can be easier. But if you forget the charger, you have to go back to the console when the battery goes dead.... I was using 2 consoles for this show, one monitor desk, one FOH. Keeping track of which iPad was connected to each board was fun too.

The whole point is this seems like a relatively minor feature request that would simplify the usability of the system. With as well thought out as everything else seemed to be, I was surprised to find this glaring oversight.
 
Re: Scribble strip gripe

Brian jojade said:
Yes, labeling on the iPad or on the computer can be easier. But if you forget the charger, you have to go back to the console when the battery goes dead.... I was using 2 consoles for this show, one monitor desk, one FOH. Keeping track of which iPad was connected to each board was fun too.

The whole point is this seems like a relatively minor feature request that would simplify the usability of the system. With as well thought out as everything else seemed to be, I was surprised to find this glaring oversight.
Click to expand...
http://soundforums.net/junior-varsity/4393-x32-discussion-287.html#post54507
 
Re: Scribble strip gripe

Shane Presley said:
Brian, were you using a cat 5 between them , or s16's? or did you use an analog split?
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All stage inputs were into monitor desk, then a single cat 5 to FOH desk. Outputs from FOH were routed back to the aux inputs on the monitor desk to the amps. Used the built in crossover. Also had a couple of delay lines that came out of FOH desk, and fill music was plugged in at FOH. Very clean setup, to be sure. Cable used was an off the shelf unshielded 100' cat 6 wire. I pulled 2 wires, just to have a spare. (at $12 each cable, that was a no brainer...) If either of the boards would have taken a dump, we could have easily re-patched and run everything from monitor position. That was a pretty amazing feeling.

Airport express was attached to each console, to get wireless access. Range of the Airport to the iPad was still solid 300' away inside a brick building.

The only thing that was a bit tricky was that trims had to be set at the monitor desk. However, on the FOH console, you have +-12dB adjustment. As long as the trim is respectably close at the monitor desk, and not clipping all is well. On monitors, I had a newbie running the board, who had only ever mixed monitors once before. We had 6 channels of monitors, and 2 channels of IEMs. Last time we did the show, the monitor console was an A&H GL2400. Talk about a world of difference in simplicity for monitor mixing!!
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Dear Rocky,

Sorry to hear about your console. I'm going to PM you and make arrangements for this to get looked at.


Kind regards,

Chase McKnight
Jr. Admin, CARE
MUSIC Group
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Chase McKnight said:
Dear Rocky,

Sorry to hear about your console. I'm going to PM you and make arrangements for this to get looked at.


Kind regards,

Chase McKnight
Jr. Admin, CARE
MUSIC Group
Click to expand...

I've been going back and forth with customer care for 3 weeks now about a warranty repair. I finally got an RA today and was informed it would be on my dime to ship the console from Ohio to Las Vegas? I have seen from multiple users in here that have had Behringer cover the shipping AND some of them even get a temp console, can someone please help me out before I go crazy? I am highly agitated with this whole situation right now.
 
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