X32 Discussion

[Per Søvik]

Re: Monitor Out Whine

Simpler yet: a console, an XLR lead, and a computer with an XLR interface and a copy of SMAART or something similar.

Yeah, that seems a lot simpler :razz:
What I'm proposing is a very simple test procedure that the console can perform on itself, with easily readable results. Simply load the scene file, plug the xlr into input 1, then plug into the output you want to test, and the meterleds and the gateled on the first few channels will tell you if you have random noise above spec and if you have single-frequency noises more than 3-6 dB above the random noise floor. A full diagnostic of all outputs on a board should take a couple of minutes.

 

[Dan Mortensen]

Re: Monitor Out Whine

Yeah, that seems a lot simpler :razz:
What I'm proposing is a very simple test procedure that the console can perform on itself, with easily readable results. Simply load the scene file, plug the xlr into input 1, then plug into the output you want to test, and the meterleds and the gateled on the first few channels will tell you if you have random noise above spec and if you have single-frequency noises more than 3-6 dB above the random noise floor. A full diagnostic of all outputs on a board should take a couple of minutes.

OK, I guess...

It seemed to me that what's immediately wanted is a way for Behringer Service's bench technicians to determine if a console has or doesn't have a problem that is apparently not audible in their environment.

I'm not sure I'd trust a piece of defective equipment to determine if it has a problem or not; don't you need a reference? And since none of us will be allowed for a couple more years at least to open up the console to do something about a problem, I'm not sure what a diagnostic procedure on every console will do that the right equipment on a few benches in the world wouldn't do better, easier, more reliably, and directly lead to an immediate fix.

Regardless, AFAIC it doesn't matter how they do it as long as they (Behringer Service) become able to identify a problem that is immediately audible to those able to hear it, but which they (BS) are currently unable to find, apparently anywhere in the world.

HOWEVER, if it's a problem that they know exists, don't have a solution for, and don't feel they will ever have a solution for without massive redesign or something, then I'm fine with ignoring it. The large ongoing silence from all Behringer people about this subject inclines me to this scenario. If true, I will still think it's a swell console.

Maybe a continuing silence will be the clue to stop beating a dead horse?

If the new models have Monitor Outs, it will be interesting to hear them.

 

[Alan Geering]

Re: Monitor Out Whine

Isn't the whine just the pwm for the LEDs backlighting the scribble strips?

Last year when testing the hearing loop with a portable tester I picked up a huge amount of radiated noise from the front of the x32. This was coming from the scribble strip area. At that time I also had noise on the output of the x32. I adjusted the backlight values and the noise changed.

It has been over 9 months since then so I should maybe go back and recheck.

Alan

 

[Pauly Mel]

Re: Monitor Out Whine

Maybe a quieter environment - Or get a young person on the staff to plug in some efficient headphones. It's really not hard to hear, and I'm using my (old) ears!

Pauly

I guess we'll just have to device a test for them. It should be fairly simple, just a scenefile and an xlr lead.

 

[Joseph Schuurman]

Re: X32 Permissions

Not at all. It's simple, really - the X32 can only be "seen" by the computer running the control software.

Either the computer and X32 are on one network, and then the computer is on a completely separate network with the wifi for the other devices, or the computer and X32 are linked over USB and then the computer is on the network with the wifi devices.

If the computer with the control software is the only thing that can "see" the X32, then the X32 firmware does not need to change one bit from how it is today. The control software/computer becomes a proxy for all communications to the X32, and acting as a gatekeeper full control as granular as you want can be maintained.

I'm not saying it wouldn't be ambitious - especially for a third party - but I think it would be a heck of a lot faster to do something as involved as permissions on a computer rather than fiddling with firmware on a device that with each firmware update you can brick the device if you are not VERY careful.

TL;DR version - doing on the PC would be much faster without fear of breaking stuff as easily

Good point, I never thought about the PC being a gateway to the X32 on a private subnet, it could outright deny access, but also filter certain subsets of communication. I've never dabbled in OSC, when I have time I'll do some port sniffing and get a sense of the magnitude of the project.

Once you have the gateway setup, you could have specialized apps, that cater to certain jobs/tasks, and provide just the controls that are needed, or use the full XiControl/XiEdit, with read only on properties you don't have access to. Though I don't know how Behringers software will handle not being able to communicate it's writes, haven't looked deeply at the OSC spec.

 

[Per Søvik]

Re: X32 Permissions

Though I don't know how Behringers software will handle not being able to communicate it's writes, haven't looked deeply at the OSC spec.

There is no acknowledgement of reception, so no resend in the protocol. It's a simple transmit and keep fingers crossed, so any interruption will go unnoticed as far as the client software is concerned. Only time client is aware that something is amiss is when asking for a reply, ie when it sends a request.

 

[Dan Mortensen]

Re: Monitor Out Whine

Isn't the whine just the pwm for the LEDs backlighting the scribble strips?

This has been alleged a couple times ITT, but the whine on my consoles doesn't change when the backlighting is varied, the couple times I've tried it.

YMMV, I guess.....

 

[Ben Gingerich]

Wifi control console

Heres a question i dont think ive seen addressed, when the X32 Rack comes out will there be a way to have it and an S16 on stage for the full 32 channels and then have an X32 console slaved/connected to the Rack via WIFI in an area that cable cannot be run?

 

[Per Søvik]

Re: Wifi control console

Heres a question i dont think ive seen addressed, when the X32 Rack comes out will there be a way to have it and an S16 on stage for the full 32 channels and then have an X32 console slaved/connected to the Rack via WIFI in an area that cable cannot be run?

No, at the moment there is no remote functionality that will remote control a Rack with the X32, but the more often we ask for it, the more likely it is to happen ~;-)~:wink:

 

[Dave Millington]

Re: Wifi control console

So- I thought I'd finally chime in on this thread. I purchased my x32 last November after reading through the 100 or so pages of this thread at the time. Love it, not only a game changer but a life changer. Been doing live sound full time for 27 years, nice to do monitors and mains wirelessly on my laptop. Couple of months ago I was doing a wedding with a 10 piece band from L.A., had to hook up an I Pod for the 1st dance. Using an 1/8" stereo to 2 1/4" singles plugged into the auxiliary inputs (as I had done many times before), I was bringing up the signal to channels tuned to the respective aux. inputs. Initially I got a signal on the LED's and display when they seemed to get weaker and the disappear. Thankfully it was during sound check. Trying different aux. (1/4") inputs did no good, they all seemed dead. I of course busted out a couple of DI's and went in through the XLR's, all of which work fine.

 

[Dave Millington]

Re: 1/4" aux's not working

Sorry about the last post- newbie mistake. Here's the complete post:
So- I thought I'd finally chime in on this thread. I purchased my x32 last November after reading through the 100 or so pages of this thread at the time. Love it, not only a game changer but a life changer. Been doing live sound full time for 27 years, nice to do monitors and mains wirelessly on my laptop. Couple of months ago I was doing a wedding with a 10 piece band from L.A., had to hook up an I Pod for the 1st dance. Using an 1/8" stereo to 2 1/4" singles plugged into the auxiliary inputs (as I had done many times before), I was bringing up the signal to channels tuned to the respective aux. inputs. Initially I got a signal on the LED's and display when they seemed to get weaker and then disappear. Thankfully it was during sound check. Trying different aux. (1/4") inputs did no good, they all seemed dead. I of course busted out a couple of DI's and went in through the XLR's, all of which work fine. Back at my studio (dual purpose), I checked again with no success. Not only were the aux. inputs not working, the aux. outputs now didn't work as well (I use the 1/4" aux outputs for headphone sends). I tried reinitializing the console, with no success. On output I can get a signal on the aux. output meter, but it doesn't show up at the physical 1/4" jack. As far as I can tell there is no dedicated meter for aux. inputs other than the 8 channels used for bank 3 aux. channels, which don't reflect the 6 aux. inputs. It's acting like a block connecter for all the aux. jacks came loose. FYI I am still on vs. 1.09. I have contacted Behringer and got the ball rolling. Thankfully I got the Gold Coverage from Guitar Center, as shipping from Hawaii would be costly. Anyone care to chime in? Maybe a Behringer Rep? So far I have only had canned responses from Behringer. On the other hand- I wasn't planning on using the x32 in the studio. I had been using my A&H GL3300 with a MOTU 828. My desktop had gone down (using firewire) and only had my laptop with USB. I decided to use the x32 with laptop to get me through a basic drum session. - I was heart broken. The x32 blew my GL3300 with MOTU out of the water. I loved my 3300 ( had it for 14 years) but ended up selling it to a good friend building a studio who'll put it to good use. Thank you all for your time, I know I can be a bit wordy. -Dave

 

[Mark Skyrme]

Re: X32 Slave mode would be a cool feature

I'm planning to implement the X32 system with one board as a monitor console and one as the mains console, using the monitor board as a digital split. This requires sending the audio signal down the AES50 cable and back. Then I noticed the 'remote' button on the board. This allows the X32 to remotely control a DAW. It would make things way easier if I could make that button remote control the X32 that is on stage instead of routing all of the audio through AES50.

Right now, you could achieve something similar by using the X32 edit interface on a computer, so why can't you use a second console as a slave to the first? That way, all of the audio would stay on stage. Adjustments could be made from either console for monitors or for the main mix. If the cat 5 cable were damaged, the show would still go on without interruption.

If this feature existed, it would be incredible!

I'm in the middle of writing such an app that will achieve this following my post a few pages ago. Thanks to Kev Hunter and a little of his OSC Tester app raw code I currently have 2 x32s linked together with the majority of the functions workings as of last night. Basically requires a cat 5 to aes50 ports and a cat5 to a router to link the x32s. A pc which I already have in my mixer case runs a little app which manages the sync between consoles. Just working on a bit of code to get the trim to control the headamp gain and I'll post a little video. However, faders, all buttons, eq, dynamics, monitors and several other parts work. I aim to get a version released in the next few weeks. The fx section is a little tricky and may follow later. I plan to use the 'remote' button to get the 2 desks to initially sync like you do with the x32 edit software.

 

[Fiona Hammond]

Re: 1/4" aux's not working

Hi Dave,

Glad to hear the ball's rolling with regards to having your console reviewed at our service center.

The issue you are experiencing is not something I am personally familiar with. As you have initialized the console and still encounter inactivity on the physical aux inputs and outputs I do not believe this to be a routing issue, however feel free to PM me a copy of your showfile if you wish, so that we can check the routing over.


Kind Regards,
Fiona Hammond
CARE EMEA
MUSIC Group
BEHRINGER

 

[Mark Skyrme]

Re: X32 Slave mode would be a cool feature

.......... I'll post a little video......

Ok, not the most exciting video and it might be better if I do one in the dark but have a little look that this...... X32 linked - YouTube
You can see the faders moving and pages changing, all the buttons work but the video quality is not great so doesn't show up brilliantly. I'll do a bit more work and update a better one soon.

 

[Dan Mortensen]

Re: X32 Slave mode would be a cool feature

X32 linked - YouTube

That seems like a significant achievement!

Congrats!

 

[brian maddox]

Re: X32 Slave mode would be a cool feature

Ok, not the most exciting video and it might be better if I do one in the dark but have a little look that this...... X32 linked - YouTube
You can see the faders moving and pages changing, all the buttons work but the video quality is not great so doesn't show up brilliantly. I'll do a bit more work and update a better one soon.

This is going to be a Brilliant and much requested app. Redundant consoles using a X32 Rack. Remote control of another desk. So many possibilities. Looking forward to seeing the developments as they happen.

I knew when Behringer released the OSC Documentation that there would be some clever people doing clever things with it. Clearly there are....

 

[Mark Skyrme]

Re: X32 Slave mode would be a cool feature

..... clever people doing clever things with it. Clearly there are....

Not so sure about that! I've come across a little stumbling block, which Per mentioned a few threads back when I first thought of this linking idea.


This bit is a little technical so I apologise in advance, but someone might have a bright idea......
I am using aes50 to mirror the signal inputs from the master on the slave desk so you get the visual LEDs, compression etc shown. This is because the slave can't receive meter data from the master. As the slave is receiving a digital signal the slave gain is no longer a head amp but a trim. That bit was easy (eventually!). I basically told the pc when it received a trim signal to actually make changes to the masters headamp + or - and reset the slave trim to centre again. That works ok. The problem is that the input signal level on the slave is not exactly the same as the input signal on the master, so leds are slightly out. I can adjust the trim to match (used a tone generator to set a constant level and monitored), however the gain-v-trim level adjustment varies depending on the master gain level and it is not a linear progression!


Examples:
Master gain 57 Slave trim 11.5
Master gain 42 Slave trim 1.5
Master gain 30.5 Slave trim. 1.5
Master gain 8.5 Slave trim 0.3


I can make a complete conversion table for all master gain values, but worry this might vary slightly from console to console (and input to input). So a little more work to do to confirm this. I also need the consoles to initially sync together too. At the moment I just save the scene and restore on the other. To be fair this is only day 2 of the project!!


The headache continues............sure Behringer will have released a simple update by the time I figure it all out.

 

[Kevin Hunter]

Re: X32 Slave mode would be a cool feature

I'm in the middle of writing such an app that will achieve this following my post a few pages ago. Thanks to Kev Hunter and a little of his OSC Tester app raw code I currently have 2 x32s linked together with the majority of the functions workings as of last night. Basically requires a cat 5 to aes50 ports and a cat5 to a router to link the x32s. A pc which I already have in my mixer case runs a little app which manages the sync between consoles. Just working on a bit of code to get the trim to control the headamp gain and I'll post a little video. However, faders, all buttons, eq, dynamics, monitors and several other parts work. I aim to get a version released in the next few weeks. The fx section is a little tricky and may follow later. I plan to use the 'remote' button to get the 2 desks to initially sync like you do with the x32 edit software.

Glad the code helped it's looking good Mark.

if you need anything else let me know.

Kev

 

[Kevin Hunter]

Re: X32 Slave mode would be a cool feature

Not so sure about that! I've come across a little stumbling block, which Per mentioned a few threads back when I first thought of this linking idea.


This bit is a little technical so I apologise in advance, but someone might have a bright idea......
I am using aes50 to mirror the signal inputs from the master on the slave desk so you get the visual LEDs, compression etc shown. This is because the slave can't receive meter data from the master. As the slave is receiving a digital signal the slave gain is no longer a head amp but a trim. That bit was easy (eventually!). I basically told the pc when it received a trim signal to actually make changes to the masters headamp + or - and reset the slave trim to centre again. That works ok. The problem is that the input signal level on the slave is not exactly the same as the input signal on the master, so leds are slightly out. I can adjust the trim to match (used a tone generator to set a constant level and monitored), however the gain-v-trim level adjustment varies depending on the master gain level and it is not a linear progression!


Examples:
Master gain 57 Slave trim 11.5
Master gain 42 Slave trim 1.5
Master gain 30.5 Slave trim. 1.5
Master gain 8.5 Slave trim 0.3


I can make a complete conversion table for all master gain values, but worry this might vary slightly from console to console (and input to input). So a little more work to do to confirm this. I also need the consoles to initially sync together too. At the moment I just save the scene and restore on the other. To be fair this is only day 2 of the project!!


The headache continues............sure Behringer will have released a simple update by the time I figure it all out.

I have come across many issues like this so far on my app as well, so I feel your pain . My problem is getting any time at all to even look at it

Kev

 

[Mark Skyrme]

Re: X32 Slave mode would be a cool feature

I have come across many issues like this so far on my app as well, so I feel your pain . My problem is getting any time at all to even look at it

Kev

Thanks. It's partly your fault for helping me with the code :lol:!
When you have 5 mins Kev can you email me a little code sending string data. Integers are fine, but msg.append only supports numbers of course! Cheers.