X32 Discussion
- Thread starter Rob Spence
- Start date
Re: p-16m midi implementation
Thanks for posting the file... and for looking at the error with the files and the search function on the website.
I just overlooked the little dropdown box, too used to things actually showing up in the actual downloads tab on each products web page like with the x32 (which has far more things in it than the dropdown box).
How long before we see any improvement in the website so links, pages and things don't look so shabby?
I must be stupid or something, but as I understand it, the first midi channel is the main output, then channels 2-16 are for channels 1-15 on the mixers, so how do you access mixer channel 16?
Thanks for helping out this dumb bunny. I must be looking at it wrong or something.
Since there are seperate control change messages for main stuff on channel 1, it must be that mixer channel 1 (not 1+1) is controlled on midi channel 1, right?
I'd love to see an application to control multiple p16-m's from an ios/android/laptop with osc, and be able to load saved presets from the tablet/laptop. How cool would it be to be able to link 2 of the P16-m's together through a little mixer for access up to 32 channels (extra channels sourced from the first 16 inputs on the first s16 out it's ultranet port). This "dream" application could then control all those mixers (32 midi channels) right from your tablet/phone and also recall saved presets into the mixers stashed in a rack or something with wireless IEM transmitters or something like that...
Congrats to Robert for snatching up post #7500!
Thanks for posting the file... and for looking at the error with the files and the search function on the website.
I just overlooked the little dropdown box, too used to things actually showing up in the actual downloads tab on each products web page like with the x32 (which has far more things in it than the dropdown box).
How long before we see any improvement in the website so links, pages and things don't look so shabby?
I must be stupid or something, but as I understand it, the first midi channel is the main output, then channels 2-16 are for channels 1-15 on the mixers, so how do you access mixer channel 16?
Thanks for helping out this dumb bunny. I must be looking at it wrong or something.
Since there are seperate control change messages for main stuff on channel 1, it must be that mixer channel 1 (not 1+1) is controlled on midi channel 1, right?
I'd love to see an application to control multiple p16-m's from an ios/android/laptop with osc, and be able to load saved presets from the tablet/laptop. How cool would it be to be able to link 2 of the P16-m's together through a little mixer for access up to 32 channels (extra channels sourced from the first 16 inputs on the first s16 out it's ultranet port). This "dream" application could then control all those mixers (32 midi channels) right from your tablet/phone and also recall saved presets into the mixers stashed in a rack or something with wireless IEM transmitters or something like that...
Congrats to Robert for snatching up post #7500!
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Re: X32 Discussion
I thought so, but in looking it up learned that an inverter is only DC to AC; a rectifier is AC to DC.
Too bad, because "two inverters" is easier to say than "a rectifier and an inverter".
I thought so, but in looking it up learned that an inverter is only DC to AC; a rectifier is AC to DC.
Too bad, because "two inverters" is easier to say than "a rectifier and an inverter".
The issue is that all UPS have a battery charger (rectifier, but there is much more to it) and an inverter.
The interesting part is how the UPS uses them.
Most of the less expensive ones have the outputs essentially connected to input as long as there is input power. When power goes away (or drops too low) it turns on the inverter and connects the outputs to it. This takes a little time. Much gear doesn't notice but some may.
The better units (from my view) always have the inverter running and so there is no delay when power drops.
Sent from my iPad HD
Re: X32 Discussion
So is the "on-line" portion of the device description the shorthand way of saying "inverter always running"?
If so, and if that always means the same thing, that's easier to say yet.
And I agree that it's the way to go (always having inverter running), but that seems to always also mean "larger, heavier, more expensive" as well, which is a price I'm willing to pay.
It also seems like you can never know if the other kind is actually working until your AC source does something bad, and you'd have to simulate all "something bad" scenarios to really know.
Thanks,
Dan
So is the "on-line" portion of the device description the shorthand way of saying "inverter always running"?
If so, and if that always means the same thing, that's easier to say yet.
And I agree that it's the way to go (always having inverter running), but that seems to always also mean "larger, heavier, more expensive" as well, which is a price I'm willing to pay.
It also seems like you can never know if the other kind is actually working until your AC source does something bad, and you'd have to simulate all "something bad" scenarios to really know.
Thanks,
Dan
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You got it.
Most UPS of the more pro models have a test button.
Sent from my iPad HD
Re: X32 Discussion
OK, but does it test voltage sag of 20% for 20 ms, and then power sag of 50% for 40ms, etc.? I think not.... *
Full power loss, as simulated by pulling the UPS' power plug, is but one scenario, and is not the one that I think of as most likely or most necessary to be protected from. If the power goes off to the entire PA or neighborhood or city, having the console keep working is of limited value.
*which is one reason why starting with 240 volts as your standard AC level is superior to starting at 120v, if the shutdown/restart value for the X32 is 80 or 90 volts for 20ms or whatever (forget which at the moment). Much harder to get to 80 or 90 from 240 than from nominal 120 at the far end of the snake length cable and whatever it is at console end.
OK, but does it test voltage sag of 20% for 20 ms, and then power sag of 50% for 40ms, etc.? I think not.... *
Full power loss, as simulated by pulling the UPS' power plug, is but one scenario, and is not the one that I think of as most likely or most necessary to be protected from. If the power goes off to the entire PA or neighborhood or city, having the console keep working is of limited value.
*which is one reason why starting with 240 volts as your standard AC level is superior to starting at 120v, if the shutdown/restart value for the X32 is 80 or 90 volts for 20ms or whatever (forget which at the moment). Much harder to get to 80 or 90 from 240 than from nominal 120 at the far end of the snake length cable and whatever it is at console end.
Wiki Manual
Dear Per,
allow me to comment on your post.
Some months ago I had reached out to you to ask for your support for a crowd-based Wiki Manual. You were kind enough to offer your help to take over the project, however we have since struggled to set up the internal infrastructure to allow you to manage the Wiki Manual. For that please accept my apologies.
We are in the midst of a major restructuring of our whole IT systems after an incident in our Data Center which has affected our websites and forums. While most of the websites and the BEHRINGER forum have been restored, we need around 2 more weeks to get the behringer.com site fully functional again.
In order to avoid further delays, I suggest that you be so kind to host the Wiki Manual on the external site you mentioned until our infrastructure is fully ready and we have some bandwidth.
Again, sorry for the delay and thank you and Dan Mortensen for your continued support for this important project.
Warm regards
Uli
Dear Per,
allow me to comment on your post.
Some months ago I had reached out to you to ask for your support for a crowd-based Wiki Manual. You were kind enough to offer your help to take over the project, however we have since struggled to set up the internal infrastructure to allow you to manage the Wiki Manual. For that please accept my apologies.
We are in the midst of a major restructuring of our whole IT systems after an incident in our Data Center which has affected our websites and forums. While most of the websites and the BEHRINGER forum have been restored, we need around 2 more weeks to get the behringer.com site fully functional again.
In order to avoid further delays, I suggest that you be so kind to host the Wiki Manual on the external site you mentioned until our infrastructure is fully ready and we have some bandwidth.
Again, sorry for the delay and thank you and Dan Mortensen for your continued support for this important project.
Warm regards
Uli
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Re: X32 Discussion
Hello
The nature of fulltime inverter-running UPS is such, that if it clears the "pull the plug - test" it will also survive all kinds of brownouts etc as long the battery has some juice in it.
The way the unit is built is basically : 120/240VAC into battery charger - 12-48V DC into battery - inverter - 120/240VAC out.
Think of it this way - when power gets cut off completely, the UPS relies on it´s battery only - the runtime is usually included in specs - say i.e. 30 minutes for your load. No charging of battery is done and after 30 minutes you are out of power. In case of brownout the charger may still provide some juice for the battery - thus extending runtime. So total blackout is worst scenario and everything else will be easier.
Overvoltage protection is another story - but a well built UPS will take care of that, too.
So for what we need the UPS in our X32 setups - pulling cable off wall socket is THE test , if the unit has no test button.
If power goes off completely for 5 to10 seconds, or more, the show will be stopped anyway - so booting of desk should be no issue - but if the show stops because our X32 has to reboot because of freezer-compressor in the kitchen just kicked in and sent a spike or drop into line.... - then we will look very very bad with our desk rebooting, while otherwise nobody had ever noticed anything in sound or lights.
Hello
The nature of fulltime inverter-running UPS is such, that if it clears the "pull the plug - test" it will also survive all kinds of brownouts etc as long the battery has some juice in it.
The way the unit is built is basically : 120/240VAC into battery charger - 12-48V DC into battery - inverter - 120/240VAC out.
Think of it this way - when power gets cut off completely, the UPS relies on it´s battery only - the runtime is usually included in specs - say i.e. 30 minutes for your load. No charging of battery is done and after 30 minutes you are out of power. In case of brownout the charger may still provide some juice for the battery - thus extending runtime. So total blackout is worst scenario and everything else will be easier.
Overvoltage protection is another story - but a well built UPS will take care of that, too.
So for what we need the UPS in our X32 setups - pulling cable off wall socket is THE test , if the unit has no test button.
If power goes off completely for 5 to10 seconds, or more, the show will be stopped anyway - so booting of desk should be no issue - but if the show stops because our X32 has to reboot because of freezer-compressor in the kitchen just kicked in and sent a spike or drop into line.... - then we will look very very bad with our desk rebooting, while otherwise nobody had ever noticed anything in sound or lights.
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Re: X32 Discussion
Well, after just under a year of use the X-32 at a venue I work in has developed a fault
The motor for input fader number 3 seems to be broken, you can hear it whirring away but the fader doesn't move.
Well, after just under a year of use the X-32 at a venue I work in has developed a fault
The motor for input fader number 3 seems to be broken, you can hear it whirring away but the fader doesn't move.
Re: X32 Discussion
Hello together,
I am new to this forum, I come from germany, so please excuse my bad english
I will use a X32-Compact and 3 S16 in a fixed installation.
Can I operate them in continuous operation or will it be better to shut them down?
The 3 S16 will be mounted in fixed racks, but the x32 should work on 2 diffrent places.
I think about a solution lix this:
First situation:
X32 - aes50A <---- 30m Cat5 ----> S16 <---- 20m Cat5 ----> S16
- aes50B <---- 20m Cat5 ----> S16
Second situation:
X32 - aes50A <----20m Cat5 ----> Neutrik NE8FF <---- 30m Cat5 ----> S16 <---- 20m Cat5 ----> S16
- aes50B <----20m Cat5 ----> Neutrik NE8FF <---- 20m Cat5 ----> S16
Will this work without problems?
If I have sync on the AES50 ports, will the connection be 100 % stable or is there the possibility of syncloss?
Michael
Hello together,
I am new to this forum, I come from germany, so please excuse my bad english
I will use a X32-Compact and 3 S16 in a fixed installation.
Can I operate them in continuous operation or will it be better to shut them down?
The 3 S16 will be mounted in fixed racks, but the x32 should work on 2 diffrent places.
I think about a solution lix this:
First situation:
X32 - aes50A <---- 30m Cat5 ----> S16 <---- 20m Cat5 ----> S16
- aes50B <---- 20m Cat5 ----> S16
Second situation:
X32 - aes50A <----20m Cat5 ----> Neutrik NE8FF <---- 30m Cat5 ----> S16 <---- 20m Cat5 ----> S16
- aes50B <----20m Cat5 ----> Neutrik NE8FF <---- 20m Cat5 ----> S16
Will this work without problems?
If I have sync on the AES50 ports, will the connection be 100 % stable or is there the possibility of syncloss?
Michael
Re: X32 Discussion
I seem to remember that the x32 with the kidney shaped faders was more sensitive than the square ones. It is quite easy to open up the x32 and put back the belt on the cog wheel.
This sounds like the belt have come loose. This can happen if a fader was blocked for some reason when it tried to move.Well, after just under a year of use the X-32 at a venue I work in has developed a fault
The motor for input fader number 3 seems to be broken, you can hear it whirring away but the fader doesn't move.
I seem to remember that the x32 with the kidney shaped faders was more sensitive than the square ones. It is quite easy to open up the x32 and put back the belt on the cog wheel.
Re: X32 Discussion
I seem to recall that there is a calibration routine you then need to run?
Re: X32 Discussion
Ouch, had a bit of a panic situation today, had set the wrong safe modes, and my programmed show was way too hot on the monitor outs, so instant feedback of the worst possible kind when changing scenes.. I unplugged the monitor outs and was contemplating holding my finger on the monitor fader while changing scenes, but didn't want to risk it, and the singers were happy to do the show without monitors (their ears already ringing so they would have accepted anything to keep me from plugging them back in).
Horrible day, my foh tent wouldn't fit at what was available for foh, I tried to get the show postponed for the weather to clear, but had to start the show with the desk covered with a tarp, not making things easier
.
Anyway, is that the experience then, that holding back the faders will be really, really bad?
I thought maybe there would be some stuck fader sensing, but wouldn't risk finding out. Sensing a stuck fader should be fairly easy to do by monitoring the position, and defining how long a fader is allowed to remain stationary before the motor stops. Current sensing on the motor would require hardware, but a motion sensing approach could easily be done in firmware.
Ouch, had a bit of a panic situation today, had set the wrong safe modes, and my programmed show was way too hot on the monitor outs, so instant feedback of the worst possible kind when changing scenes.. I unplugged the monitor outs and was contemplating holding my finger on the monitor fader while changing scenes, but didn't want to risk it, and the singers were happy to do the show without monitors (their ears already ringing so they would have accepted anything to keep me from plugging them back in).
Horrible day, my foh tent wouldn't fit at what was available for foh, I tried to get the show postponed for the weather to clear, but had to start the show with the desk covered with a tarp, not making things easier
. Anyway, is that the experience then, that holding back the faders will be really, really bad?
I thought maybe there would be some stuck fader sensing, but wouldn't risk finding out. Sensing a stuck fader should be fairly easy to do by monitoring the position, and defining how long a fader is allowed to remain stationary before the motor stops. Current sensing on the motor would require hardware, but a motion sensing approach could easily be done in firmware.
Re: X32 Discussion
Dear Richard,
Sorry to hear you are having an issue. The fader itself is not broken. What has happened is that a small wheel on the fader mechanism has come off. In a very small number of early production consoles the wheel was not glued and in extremely rare cases can come off. This is very easily fixed with a drop of glue. Our CARE department can help you with this.
Please send me a PM with your contact information and I will have our CARE people take care of you immediately.
Our CARE department can be emailed directly at: [email protected]
Your can also register with CARE at: MUSIC Group Center | BEHRINGER, BUGERA, MIDAS, KLARK TEKNIK and TURBOSOUND
I hope this helps.
Well, after just under a year of use the X-32 at a venue I work in has developed a fault
The motor for input fader number 3 seems to be broken, you can hear it whirring away but the fader doesn't move.
Dear Richard,
Sorry to hear you are having an issue. The fader itself is not broken. What has happened is that a small wheel on the fader mechanism has come off. In a very small number of early production consoles the wheel was not glued and in extremely rare cases can come off. This is very easily fixed with a drop of glue. Our CARE department can help you with this.
Please send me a PM with your contact information and I will have our CARE people take care of you immediately.
Our CARE department can be emailed directly at: [email protected]
Your can also register with CARE at: MUSIC Group Center | BEHRINGER, BUGERA, MIDAS, KLARK TEKNIK and TURBOSOUND
I hope this helps.
Re: X32 Discussion
Hi Timo,
Yes, this is what I was talking about as the reason why it seems better and more fail-safe to use a fulltime, on-line, double conversion (rectifier->inverter) UPS as opposed to one of the others, which are undeniably cheaper and smaller.
The question, I thought, was whether there is a test switch on the non-fulltime UPS's, and if so, what conditions it tests beyond the equivalent of pulling the plug. That it would not test for brownout conditions and that that's why you want a fulltime UPS was the point I was trying to make, apparently unclearly.
So you and I agree, I think.
Thanks,
Dan
Hi Timo,
Yes, this is what I was talking about as the reason why it seems better and more fail-safe to use a fulltime, on-line, double conversion (rectifier->inverter) UPS as opposed to one of the others, which are undeniably cheaper and smaller.
The question, I thought, was whether there is a test switch on the non-fulltime UPS's, and if so, what conditions it tests beyond the equivalent of pulling the plug. That it would not test for brownout conditions and that that's why you want a fulltime UPS was the point I was trying to make, apparently unclearly.
So you and I agree, I think.
Thanks,
Dan
Re: Wiki Manual
Hi Uli,
Thank you for this generous comment, and I hope I'm able to actually accomplish something helpful to Per and to the community of users.
FWIW, I intend to save this comment from you, and use it as sort of a "Get Out of Jail" card the next time I say something stupid here.
Thanks again,
Dan
Hi Uli,
Thank you for this generous comment, and I hope I'm able to actually accomplish something helpful to Per and to the community of users.
FWIW, I intend to save this comment from you, and use it as sort of a "Get Out of Jail" card the next time I say something stupid here.
Thanks again,
Dan
Re: X32 Discussion
First situation: In theory, there shouldn't be any problems with a long daisy-chain as long as each length is within parameters, because the AES50 transfer sync is from one node to the next.
Second situation: Again, in theory there shouldn't be a problem, but any time two cables are connected through a coupler, there is an extra point of possible failure.
First situation: In theory, there shouldn't be any problems with a long daisy-chain as long as each length is within parameters, because the AES50 transfer sync is from one node to the next.
Second situation: Again, in theory there shouldn't be a problem, but any time two cables are connected through a coupler, there is an extra point of possible failure.
Re: Wiki Manual
I'll see what I can get around to within a reasonable time. Unfortunately, I'm too often more of a thinker and a suggester than a doer
~;-)~:wink:
I'll see what I can get around to within a reasonable time. Unfortunately, I'm too often more of a thinker and a suggester than a doer
~;-)~:wink:
Re: X32 Discussion
Joe, I would really like it if the product registration was an account based system like most software providers and quite a few hardware providers offer.
Maybe not the best time to suggest something like this :twisted:, but it sure would be a convenience. That way we could for instance submit a copy of the receipt while we actually have it instead of hunting feverishly for it the day we need it~;-)~:wink:
Joe, I would really like it if the product registration was an account based system like most software providers and quite a few hardware providers offer.
Maybe not the best time to suggest something like this :twisted:, but it sure would be a convenience. That way we could for instance submit a copy of the receipt while we actually have it instead of hunting feverishly for it the day we need it
~;-)~:wink: