X32 Discussion

Mondo delay due to Imag Sync

Tonight I am running 90 ms on my main zone outputs to compensate for video processing delay for Imag screens. I have been doing corporate shows for decades and never had to run that much delay to compensate for video sync. Anybody ever been bitten by this dog?

John Pizzarelli @ The Waldorf Astoria NYC

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Re: X32 Rack has arrived - setting up

Naturally, if we knew what voltages the x32 uses internally that would be a great help.

My guess? 1.8v, 3.3v, 5v, 12v, 48v and the analog rails which are likely +-18v. Now, how exactly does that help us? I agree with the idea that some sort of brown out protection should be designed into these kinds of boxes but to do it "right" is really in the hands of Behringer Inc. I like JR's idea of keeping the brain running for a little bit even if the lights go out although there is the question of how to gracefully handle the departure and return of audio signals from the outputs.

If we could run our X32s from hamster wheels, how many of us would keep the hamsters fed?
 
Re: Mondo delay due to Imag Sync

Tonight I am running 90 ms on my main zone outputs to compensate for video processing delay for Imag screens....

John Pizzarelli @ The Waldorf Astoria NYC

View attachment 8261

That's really astonishing! Something has to be wrong in their world, but what is an A1 or 2 going to do about it?

Nice that you have built in capability to deal with it.

How cool it is that these consoles have the capability to dial in the needed delay.

You're able to set up a Scene to add and then subtract the delay when you're not using the Imag?? Otherwise the talent would be screwed up, right?

And if you get a chance, say "hi" to John from Frank Laico's widow Colette. She is doing well at 93. I'll tell her he's at the Waldorf. Frank was a recording engineer for CBS Records who worked with his father Bucky, and knew and possibly worked with John,too.

Thanks,
Dan
 
Re: Mondo delay due to Imag Sync

What graphic switcher are you using that has that much latency?

Tonight I am running 90 ms on my main zone outputs to compensate for video processing delay for Imag screens. I have been doing corporate shows for decades and never had to run that much delay to compensate for video sync. Anybody ever been bitten by this dog?

John Pizzarelli @ The Waldorf Astoria NYC

View attachment 8261
 
Re: Mondo delay due to Imag Sync

Tonight I am running 90 ms on my main zone outputs to compensate for video processing delay for Imag screens. I have been doing corporate shows for decades and never had to run that much delay to compensate for video sync. Anybody ever been bitten by this dog?

John Pizzarelli @ The Waldorf Astoria NYC

View attachment 8261
90ms is only 3 video frames. Pretty typical for framebuffer equipment.
 
Re: Mondo delay due to Imag Sync

90ms is only 3 video frames. Pretty typical for framebuffer equipment.

He said he had to delay his main zone outputs, which I assume means the PA as opposed to those audio input channels, so why is that not wildly out from the direct sound? Or was he going back and forth between live- no delay, and video- 90ms, so there was never live+video sound?

Funny that what seems drastic to me and him seems like your normal, but I have no experience with that kind of video. I play back a DVD or whatever.
 
Re: Mondo delay due to Imag Sync

Three frames is quite a lot. Two frames should be enough in a multicam setup. But with a digital video mixer and the inherent lag in projectors/digital displays the total lag could be severe.
 
Re: Mondo delay due to Imag Sync

He said he had to delay his main zone outputs, which I assume means the PA as opposed to those audio input channels, so why is that not wildly out from the direct sound? Or was he going back and forth between live- no delay, and video- 90ms, so there was never live+video sound?

Funny that what seems drastic to me and him seems like your normal, but I have no experience with that kind of video. I play back a DVD or whatever.

At the front of the room, audio is always ahead of video, unless you use too much delay. At some point, the slow propagation speed of audio syncs up with the video, and too much audio delay may actually make it worse at the back of the room, as the audio will now lag behind the video.

It is what it is. Adding a couple zeros to the price tag will shorten the delay with genlocked cameras and lower-latency switchers, but at the end of the day, audio and video travel at very different speeds, so it will never match anyway.
 
Re: X32 Rack as a Soundcard interface....for an ekit....

I wanted to throw a hypothetical set-up past you guys...
I'm in the middle of investigating the use of addictive drums or superior drummer for live use. I downloaded the trial software of addictive and the sounds and feel are great in comparison to my roland TD-12 kit. So what I need to do now is find a dedicated computer, an external soundcard, usb / firewire interface with low latentcy and at least four outputs to interface with my E-kit.
Now here comes the question...
Could I open reaper, use superior drummer or addictive drums in reaper, and connect it via USB to the X32 rack recording card thus routing the outputs to channels?
I guess it's no different than using it as a reverb or delay or comp plug in no?

Just trying to wrap my head around the whole thing, and I don't want to have to spend an arm and a leg on a mac and some firewire interface to get low latentcy. My experiments to date have run from not usable latentcy to "ok"... more experiments tonight...

Depends on exactly how you're looking to run things. If you're going to just use the drum VST and simply send it out, via usb, to the console then latency of the VST, USB link etc... is really irrelevant (who cares if sound actually comes out of the speakers 37 ms after you pressed the "Play" button on the drum vst).

On the other hand, if you're thinking in terms of playing the drum VST from the attached laptop via USB, and simultaneously trying to play other instruments, along with the drums, into the console AND you want to send those other instruments out of the console, into the PC for multitrack recording, now you'll have sonme weirdness to deal with since the other/external instruments will sound to be "in time" with the drum playback but the subsequent multitrack recording will sound out of time (the external instruments will slightly delayed behind the drums).

Reason being is that when you hit play on the drums VST, system latency will cause you to not actually hear the drums through the speakers immediately (lets say you have a 20ms delay here). So, you hear the drums start, you start playing along with them but now, the external instruments that are playing along with the drums will suffer an additional latency when you send them back to the PC for multitrack recording (let's say that this "return trip" latency might be another 20ms). The result will be that the external instruments will end up being around 40ms late, relative to the drum's vst (the combination of the outbound latency of the drum vst plus the inbound latency of the external instrument tracks).

Entirely fixable, in post production, by time shifting the external instrument tracks but you'll probably have to play with the time shift to get everything to drop into a good groove.
 
Re: X32 Rack as a Soundcard interface....for an ekit....

Just paying with a Compact in GC and notice that the tap delay functions normally...not the stupid averaging the last 10 tap crap. Is this an OS function or what? Firmware 1.13
The delay is computed at the local computer. The computer then sends the corresponding osc-command to set the delay time.
 
Re: X32 Rack as a Soundcard interface....for an ekit....

Entirely fixable, in post production, by time shifting the external instrument tracks but you'll probably have to play with the time shift to get everything to drop into a good groove.

That is why you have the automatic time shift function when recording, to line up new takes with the playback takes. I find the best way is to record a playback click track back into a new track and then align the two tracks to find a latency that I report manually. Important to use the full path when doing this, putting the singers headphones over the microphone for example.
 
Re: X32 Rack as a Soundcard interface....for an ekit....

That is why you have the automatic time shift function when recording, to line up new takes with the playback takes. I find the best way is to record a playback click track back into a new track and then align the two tracks to find a latency that I report manually. Important to use the full path when doing this, putting the singers headphones over the microphone for example.


This isn't for recording guys, it's for LIVE use, using the x32 rack as the bands mixer, and I'm thinking of using the soundcard as the source to drive addictive drummer.
is it possible ?
 
Re: X32 Rack as a Soundcard interface....for an ekit....

This isn't for recording guys, it's for LIVE use, using the x32 rack as the bands mixer, and I'm thinking of using the soundcard as the source to drive addictive drummer.
is it possible ?

Sorry for the tangent, my original answer was written with the assumption that it was for live performance. But what are you actually planning to do? Using the soundcard as source? I assumed you were going to take midi from the drumset and use the softsynth to produce the sounds? In that case my original answer stands and I'm still asking if these synths are freestanding or need a VST-host.
 
Tap Delay question.

Tap delay on the Compact seems to just take the last 2 taps. My X 32 does the average of last 10 with a waiting time until you. An re-tap....this is a real PITA on the iPad app.
Same 1.13 firmware. Answer why?
 
Re: X32 Rack as a Soundcard interface....for an ekit....

Sorry for the tangent, my original answer was written with the assumption that it was for live performance. But what are you actually planning to do? Using the soundcard as source? I assumed you were going to take midi from the drumset and use the softsynth to produce the sounds? In that case my original answer stands and I'm still asking if these synths are freestanding or need a VST-host.

I have the trial version downloaded, and it is free standing, not vst plug in... I know you can get both versions...
 
Re: X32 Rack as a Soundcard interface....for an ekit....

I have the trial version downloaded, and it is free standing, not vst plug in... I know you can get both versions...

OK, good, and you are playing the drums live? Then I wouldn't go trough Reaper or anything else, but get the Midi as straight as possible into the synth and straight from the synth to the interface.
 
Re: Tap Delay question.

Are you sure, as I would expect that the firmware is 100% equal...
I don't understand the remark of the ipad...

Because on the iPad you have to be 3 steps ahead in order to be where you need to be. Between songs I open my delay effects page to tap a song tempo quickly and then get back to the DCA page do I can mix. If I have to wait 3-5 secs to re tap a tempo if I mess up, I can miss the song beginning on a page I need in order to mix.
 
Re: Tap Delay question.

Because on the iPad you have to be 3 steps ahead in order to be where you need to be. Between songs I open my delay effects page to tap a song tempo quickly and then get back to the DCA page do I can mix. If I have to wait 3-5 secs to re tap a tempo if I mess up, I can miss the song beginning on a page I need in order to mix.

Get a second iPad and leave pages open.