X32 Discussion

Stability question

Has anyone tried playback and record with the internal audio interface at the same time?

The idea is to playback 5 channels of backing tracks and record 16 channels of audio with logic and mac book pro.

What do you think is it too much of an gamble?

And how much space approx would 3 hours of 16 tracks take?
 
Re: Latency and multitrack recording with overdubbing.

Ron Kimball said:
Some folks like to be chained up and whipped too. I don't understand that nor wanting to monitor through the DAW - both are gonna hurt and leave marks :twisted: .
Click to expand...

Since that kind of monitoring is a feature of DAWs, I guess people assume that it should be possible with no ill effects. Thus the hunt for hardware and set-ups that will accommodate the task. Presonus actually claim to do it well with the 1818 interface.
 
Last edited:
Re: Stability question

Mikko Pajuvirta said:
Has anyone tried playback and record with the internal audio interface at the same time?

The idea is to playback 5 channels of backing tracks and record 16 channels of audio with logic and mac book pro.

What do you think is it too much of an gamble?

And how much space approx would 3 hours of 16 tracks take?
Click to expand...

I haven't done playback when recording that many channels, but have recorded 6-8 channels having 24 channel playback, and that seemed to work ok.

An hour of 24bit 48K is about half a GB, so that would be about 24GB.
 
Re: Stability question

I just 16 channels of drums on top of 4 playing back via firewire and (once It works) it works well.

Pauly


Per Søvik said:
I haven't done playback when recording that many channels, but have recorded 6-8 channels having 24 channel playback, and that seemed to work ok.

An hour of 24bit 48K is about half a GB, so that would be about 24GB.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Latency and multitrack recording with overdubbing.

Per Søvik said:
I will not argue against the advantage of having low latency, but low latency is not a prerequisite for doing multitrack recording and overdubbing. Solid performance and consistent latency, however, are important factors.
In any studio setting where overdubbing and multiple takes are being performed, post take alignment is needed no matter how small the latency is, and if the latency is consistent, this task should be automated. In most daws, post take automatic alignment is available, it is only a matter of turning it on and specifying the correct latency, thus the need for consistent latency so that it can be calculated accurately.
Latency in recording is only a problem when attempting to monitor current take from daw, and since latency in some form is always going to be present even when spending fortunes on high-speed, low latency interfaces, the practice of monitoring takes through daw is a flawed one.
Set up to have rock solid recording performance with no drop-outs and consistent round trip latency, do live monitoring straight through the desk.
Click to expand...
While I see the point - I'm battling with this very problem with a client who for practical reasons, (as in a grand piano in his music room) is attempting to record at home. Cubase, which we are both using at my end can easily cope with the shifts in time, but this client cannot cope with having to change the compensation as each change is made. There are two components to the problem. I can go to him, set the system so he can play to what he hears - but he cannot do it himself. To make it worse, we've a mix of VST sampled sound sources, his real piano, and lots of overdubs. Each version gets sent to me, I change things, and then of course, all the timing is adrift again. Latency in itself, is unavoidable, but by this time I am surprised a system to automatically align things hasn't been invented. I had my x32 in the studio for a while before it was needed elsewhere, and didn't have any issues with it at all that were linked to latency. I've no way (or interest) in measuring latency, but I do know that the latency in my Line 6 radios is worse than the x32 in terms of impact. Neither is bad in any way, but there's just enough latency with the radios to reduce feedback. A Line 6 set to SM58 exhibits less feedback, and thus more gain, than a real 58 - which is noticeable. There is no difference with the X32. Neither when used live seem to have latency at all. In the studio there are other factors. My problem client has Asberger's syndrome, and ADHD - and perfect pitch. Even tiny amounts of delay between pressing a key and hearing the sound impact on him very badly, to the extent that he cannot play. So playing a plastic keyboard via midi with a sampled piano is so different to playing his concert grand before the latency issue when overdubbing. With me, a few mouse clicks removes latency - with him one click is detectable. Hopefully most people don't have this to cope with.
 
Re: a couple of pic's of my setup with the X32.

Randy Martin said:
Here's a few pic's or a show i did the other day..

Love the X32 Keep up the good work..

Randy
Click to expand...

Curious why you feel you need that big rack with EQ and compressors with the X 32? One of the reasons I went digital was to eliminate racks like that.
 
Re: Latency and multitrack recording with overdubbing.

Per Søvik said:
I will not argue against the advantage of having low latency, but low latency is not a prerequisite for doing multitrack recording and overdubbing. Solid performance and consistent latency, however, are important factors.
In any studio setting where overdubbing and multiple takes are being performed, post take alignment is needed no matter how small the latency is, and if the latency is consistent, this task should be automated. In most daws, post take automatic alignment is available, it is only a matter of turning it on and specifying the correct latency, thus the need for consistent latency so that it can be calculated accurately.
Latency in recording is only a problem when attempting to monitor current take from daw, and since latency in some form is always going to be present even when spending fortunes on high-speed, low latency interfaces, the practice of monitoring takes through daw is a flawed one.
Set up to have rock solid recording performance with no drop-outs and consistent round trip latency, do live monitoring straight through the desk.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry but I'd have to differ with you on this...as a musician myself all I can say is that if you're trying to perform an overdub and hit a key or string but actually hear it's response 20-30 ms later, that just kills your ability to lock into a groove and no amount of after the fact time alignment will help that. This is the key point that so many people forget...the outbound latency of a system isn't the real problem, it's the round trip latency that the part that you're trying to play suffers from that knocks off your ability to drop into the groove of the song. If I'm hearing previously recorded tracks through the can's and they all suffer from a 15ms latency I dont even notice it but if I hit a string or key and don't hear that sound in the can's for 15-20 or more ms that just screws up the ability to lock into the groove of the track.
 
Re: Latency and multitrack recording with overdubbing.

I will add however that, in the studio, I use Cubase with an RME multiface audio interface. Lot's of VST's etc... Using mysetup I can set buffer levels low enough with the RME gear to get round trip latencies down into the 5 ms or less range. This is pretty undetectable when playing an instrument and only slightly noticable when trying to sing (you hear the comb filtering effect between the reonance of your voice in your own head and th playback on the cans).
 
Re: Latency and multitrack recording with overdubbing.

Karl Lies said:
I'm sorry but I'd have to differ with you on this...as a musician myself all I can say is that if you're trying to perform an overdub and hit a key or string but actually hear it's response 20-30 ms later, that just kills your ability to lock into a groove and no amount of after the fact time alignment will help that. This is the key point that so many people forget...the outbound latency of a system isn't the real problem, it's the round trip latency that the part that you're trying to play suffers from that knocks off your ability to drop into the groove of the song. If I'm hearing previously recorded tracks through the can's and they all suffer from a 15ms latency I dont even notice it but if I hit a string or key and don't hear that sound in the can's for 15-20 or more ms that just screws up the ability to lock into the groove of the track.
Click to expand...

Karl, you are not getting my point: DON'T DO ROUNDTRIP MONITORING!!!
 
Last edited:
Grounding/Firewire interference

I'm having a little grounding/interference problem and I'm not sure how to solve it.

I've got my X32 connected to the same power as my PC. The X32 Aux out 2 is connect to a guitar amp which is also connected to the same power as everything else.

If the Firewire cable is not plugged in, the guitar amp is very nearly silent. If I plug in the Firewire cable, it's immediately noisy (computer noise), unplug and it goes away again.

I've done other experiments with a DI box and lifting the ground which makes it better, so I'm sure it's a grounding issue, just not sure how to fix it.

I'm experimenting with re-amping a recorded signal, so need to send from aux out to the amp, but it's just too noisy.

Any ideas?
 
Re: Grounding/Firewire interference

Hello

So you used the di-box to lift ground between X32-AUX-output and your amp...

Are you sure, that your system ground is "solid" - I do not know how you say that in english - that meaning your system ground is not floating around or having exessive resistance or something...

You might also try to connect your amp to non-grounded outlet for this session - be sure to use grounded, when playing guitar with it. We had once in a band a guitar-player with two Peavey Renown amps that were paralleled - preamp out from #1 into poweramp in #2 - only way to get rid og ground loop was to provide ungrounded outlet for amp #2 - never foud out why, we were happy it worked.

Nuuska
 
Re: Grounding/Firewire interference

Timo Ulkuniemi said:
So you used the di-box to lift ground between X32-AUX-output and your amp...
Click to expand...

I tried connecting the guitar straight to the DI, then the DI input level back out to the AMP, and the balanced out to the X32.

With the ground lift button in one position the input to the X32 was noisy, but the amp was clean, and with the button in the other position, the X32 was clean, but the amp was noisy.

I also tried connecting the Aux out direct to the amp, without any guitar connection, and it was still noisy until I removed the firewire cable.

Would it be a level thing? The Aux Out would be line level, which is much higher(?) than passive guitar pick ups. As amps are designed for pick up level, this would amplify any slight noise on the Aux out.
 
Fun and Games with iPads etc.

My crew are having the time of their lives messing with me with their iPads and Android MixingStation apps. The other night I had dozed off just before the show started (I've just finished cancer treatment and my energy is not at 100% yet) so my A2 faded the walk-in music, and played the pre-show announcement from her iPad on stage. I woke up to realize the show had started without me!

The stage manager is now sending messages to me by editing unused scribble strips with Mixing Station on his Android phone, like "Hi Mick" and "Wake Up!"

Mick Berg.
 
Re: Fun and Games with iPads etc.

Mick Berg said:
My crew are having the time of their lives messing with me with their iPads and Android MixingStation apps. The other night I had dozed off just before the show started (I've just finished cancer treatment and my energy is not at 100% yet) so my A2 faded the walk-in music, and played the pre-show announcement from her iPad on stage. I woke up to realize the show had started without me!

The stage manager is now sending messages to me by editing unused scribble strips with Mixing Station on his Android phone, like "Hi Mick" and "Wake Up!"

Mick Berg.
Click to expand...

I once did a show at the end of a very long and tiring month of rebuilding facility including the audio. All went well until there was a lull in proceedings, and someone noticed that I was starting to slump over the console. I quickly inherited the nickname "Noddy"! Took years to live down.
 
Re: a couple of pic's of my setup with the X32.

Chuck Simon said:
Curious why you feel you need that big rack with EQ and compressors with the X 32? One of the reasons I went digital was to eliminate racks like that.
Click to expand...


I still like my analog EQ's and also that rack is used with a smaller desk to do other show that don't require the X32. And one of the doors on that big rack turns into a table that the X32 fits perfect on. But its still a small foot print..

Randy
 
Top Bottom