X32 Discussion

[Andy Greenhalgh]

Re: X32 Networking Cards

Brilliant timing! I have been looking at wireless monitoring systems this past week.
A decent analogue system is a lot of money. Digital systems are pretty much non-existent for sensible money. I was wondering if Behringer were working on something as part of x32 eco system.

Can't wait to try this.

Andy

 

[Per Søvik]

Re: X32 Networking Cards

Brilliant timing! I have been looking at wireless monitoring systems this past week.
A decent analogue system is a lot of money. Digital systems are pretty much non-existent for sensible money. I was wondering if Behringer were working on something as part of x32 eco system.

Can't wait to try this.

Andy

If you're thinking of X32-Q, it doesn't provide you with sound on your iPhone, the newest addition is only that it supports panning of signal sources in order to create a stereo mix. You still need the iem-system.

 

[Chris Greco]

Re: X32 Networking Cards

Dear all,

here is a quick update on the X32 expansion cards (DANTE, ADAT and MADI).

The cards are going into production right now and should be in stores by end of the year.

We also uploaded a new X32-Q iPhone Personal Monitoring App, now with stereo in-ear monitoring support.

Warm regards

Uli


View attachment 8322View attachment 8321View attachment 8323

It would be great to be able to route channel insert points through these new network cards in an upcoming firmware release.

 

[Robert Lofgren]

Re: X32 Networking Cards

It would be great to be able to route channel insert points through these new network cards in an upcoming firmware release.

If nothing changes with the interface you can do this already. I assume that the card gui is generic for any type of expansion card and probably why we only get 32 channels today.

You would do it exactly how you'd do it today when using a daw and channel insert points.

 

[Chris Wadden]

Re: X32 Networking Cards

I wish we were given a reason why a Thunderbolt card has not been developed. I feel like it would have made more sense than the ADAT card since you can already achieve that via S16's. (I know it doesn't make sense for some, especially in a studio setting). I'm still just not sold on USB recording, even 3.0. A friend of mine tested transferring a large session, about 20 GB's, between a Firewire HD and USB 3.0 HD, and the FiWi was considerably faster.

I've just accepted by this point it probably won't happen, and I'm going to have to live with an adapter. I hate adapters.

 

[Tim McCulloch]

Re: X32 Networking Cards

I wish we were given a reason why a Thunderbolt card has not been developed. I feel like it would have made more sense than the ADAT card since you can already achieve that via S16's. (I know it doesn't make sense for some, especially in a studio setting). I'm still just not sold on USB recording, even 3.0. A friend of mine tested transferring a large session, about 20 GB's, between a Firewire HD and USB 3.0 HD, and the FiWi was considerably faster.

I've just accepted by this point it probably won't happen, and I'm going to have to live with an adapter. I hate adapters.

While I'm a big fan of FireWire (no opinion on Thunderbolt), basing a recording interface decision on how fast USB does a bulk data transfer isn't a good metric.

If you need high speed, high channel count, bi-directional recording for mission critical work... NONE of the stuff being discussed in this thread is appropriate. None of it. Pony up with $20 - $50 Large (that thousand) and get the interfaces, 10,000 rpm SCSI drives and recording software or hardware that will accomplish the tasks.

Everything else is a compromise. You can decide what limitations and/or compromises you can live with... And once again I feel compelled to say that the primary purpose of the X32 as we currently know it, is for LIVE SOUND MIXING. That recording is along for the ride should be seen as a happy circumstance.

 

[Frank Pajak]

Re: X32 Networking Cards

I am pretty sure that would be a major leap to use your phone for IEM, I would think latency would be part of the issue getting that concept to be usable. Is anyone able to comment on feasibility for making DECT and wifi transmissions usable for this type of application? Is propogation delay and bandwidth the main issue here?

I know early on in this forum there were requests for Behringer to create wireless IEM maybe this would be a next solution to add to the x32 family features?

 

[Randy Martin]

Re: a couple of pic's of my setup with the X32.

That band is called That 80's Band they play all 80's music..

will have a few tunes of those guys on my soundcloud site in a couple of days..

Ok here a few tunes from that band there on my soundcloud site https://soundcloud.com/livemusic-5

Enjoy if ya like 80's music ~~:smile:

Randy

 

[Chris Greco]

Re: X32 Networking Cards

If nothing changes with the interface you can do this already. I assume that the card gui is generic for any type of expansion card and probably why we only get 32 channels today.

You would do it exactly how you'd do it today when using a daw and channel insert points.

Yes but you cant have a device inserted real time like an Dugan auto mixer and use the Adat designated an in insert i/o unless I am missing something. In a perfect world it would be inserted post fader. It can be done currently in an analog state by using bus outs and returning via unused channels but this can be done in all the Yamaha digi desks currently via adat and its a lifesaver for panel discussions other applications where you would use a post fader digi i/o.

If this is do able with the current expansion card routing implementation please enlighten me as to how to do it.

 

[Robert Lofgren]

Re: X32 Networking Cards

I feel like it would have made more sense than the ADAT card since you can already achieve that via S16's.

The s16 is only halfway there. It doesn't have adat inputs, only outputs.

Using my trusty hd24 will now become a breeze as I'll now gain access to 'tape-in/tape-out' that I want.

There are adat i/o for computers as well so you get a consistent interface.

Even the ls9 and other mixers/components uses adat so interconnections will be possible.

 

[Chris Wadden]

Re: X32 Networking Cards

While I'm a big fan of FireWire (no opinion on Thunderbolt), basing a recording interface decision on how fast USB does a bulk data transfer isn't a good metric.

Fair enough. I wouldn't consider myself an expert on transfer protocols with computers so it was just the impression I got assuming USB 3.0 would perform better in whatever it was doing.

If you need high speed, high channel count, bi-directional recording for mission critical work... NONE of the stuff being discussed in this thread is appropriate. None of it. Pony up with $20 - $50 Large (that thousand) and get the interfaces, 10,000 rpm SCSI drives and recording software or hardware that will accomplish the tasks.

I see where your coming from, and agree with you for the most part. I still don't have the money to buy such equipment, and in the end would simply perfer anything other than USB. If Apple stuck with FiWi, I wouldn't have the issue at all.

And once again I feel compelled to say that the primary purpose of the X32 as we currently know it, is for LIVE SOUND MIXING. That recording is along for the ride should be seen as a happy circumstance.

That is a good point and something to keep in perspective. But with the release of all these expansion cards, does it not show they are making an effort for more recording capabilities? I feel if the recording aspect was simply a happy circumstance, then they would have just used USB 2.0 from the get go and never gone anywhere else with it.

 

[Robert Lofgren]

Re: X32 Networking Cards

Yes but you cant have a device inserted real time like an Dugan auto mixer and use the Adat designated an in insert i/o unless I am missing something. In a perfect world it would be inserted post fader. It can be done currently in an analog state by using bus outs and returning via unused channels but this can be done in all the Yamaha digi desks currently via adat and its a lifesaver for panel discussions other applications where you would use a post fader digi i/o.

If this is do able with the current expansion card routing implementation please enlighten me as to how to do it.

You need a x32 that has firmware 1.10 or later due to added a preamp control page to the SETUP menu.


For digital inserts you will need to set all inputs to come from the card (or at least you need to think about groups of eight) instead of the analog inputs.

By default, the card outputs should already be sending the direct out signal from the mic preamps to your computer (xuf) or adat device(using the new adat card), but you should check this on the "card out" page of the routing menu.


When routing in this way, you will need to use the dedicated preamps page of the setup menu to access your mic preamps level and 48V on/off.


Latency will be computer and driver setup dependent of course. Adat have almost no latency so that part should be of no real issue.

And as far as I see it there should be no difference what card is installed as long as the computer has the correct asio/whatevermac drivers.

If the dugan automixer uses adat there is another way of doing it using a s16. Take the adat output from the s16 and feed this into the dugan. Take the output from dugan and connect it to the x32 adat input. Or you can even use any micpre-->adat like the behringer converters feeding the dugan.

There are endless possibilities...

 

[Tim McCulloch]

Re: X32 Networking Cards

Fair enough. I wouldn't consider myself an expert on transfer protocols with computers so it was just the impression I got assuming USB 3.0 would perform better in whatever it was doing.

USB 3 has a faster transfer protocol. Whether or not that makes a difference in *recording* will require someone doing experiments under controlled conditions.

I see where your coming from, and agree with you for the most part. I still don't have the money to buy such equipment, and in the end would simply perfer anything other than USB. If Apple stuck with FiWi, I wouldn't have the issue at all.

You're not alone in wishing Ass...er Apple had kept IEEE 1394. "Apple - we change shit so we can sell new products" isn't alone in doing so, but when they do stuff like this they obsolete entire legions of peripheral products.

That is a good point and something to keep in perspective. But with the release of all these expansion cards, does it not show they are making an effort for more recording capabilities? I feel if the recording aspect was simply a happy circumstance, then they would have just used USB 2.0 from the get go and never gone anywhere else with it.

I suspect that recording is one of the considerations, but the installation market uses a wide variety of signal distribution protocols and must interface many disparate products. I think the expansion cards were developed to allow the X32 line to interface with its up-stream family and the outside world in general rather than to specifically make life easier for just the recording market.

 

[John Chiara]

Re: X32 Networking Cards

I just recorded a live show yesterday. X32-FW-MacBook-external USB drive-Reaper.
For me, I will NEVER sell my old MacBook just so I can reliably record live shows. I don't understand why weekend live recordists need to keep upgrading laptops all the time. I just keep what works and keep my piece of mind.

 

[Robert Goldberg]

Re: X32 Networking Cards

Hi folks. I have a couple of EQ questions actually. I realize this is an X32 forum but I am using an X32 and have gotten so much wonderful help in this forum before I figured I'd start here.

I am really a professional keyboard player but I do sound for a couple of bands also on the side. One of the bands I have just started working with has two lead singers, one male and one female. Each of them respectively has a pretty deep voice. The male singer is really a baritone and doing rock tunes. The female vocalist has a low voice for a female.

I am having some trouble figuring out how to get some additional presence from each of their voices in the PA. It's not just a matter of making them louder, although that does help a bit. I have just not worked with vocalists whose voices are in these ranges before.

Can someone help me to know what good frequencies might be to boost a little or cut a little to get a little less deep tone and a little more presence from these singers? I sure could use a little help.

Thanks ............. Rob

 

[Scott Bolt]

Re: X32 Networking Cards

I am pretty sure that would be a major leap to use your phone for IEM, I would think latency would be part of the issue getting that concept to be usable. Is anyone able to comment on feasibility for making DECT and wifi transmissions usable for this type of application? Is propogation delay and bandwidth the main issue here?

I know early on in this forum there were requests for Behringer to create wireless IEM maybe this would be a next solution to add to the x32 family features?

Wireless IEM's (the new ones) operate in the 516Mhz to 568Mhz region while the only radio on your phone operates at either 2.4Ghz or 5Ghz (or both in some cases).

This is far from the only difference though.

Within the frequency range they operate in, IEM's have several bands they can operate on. The reason for this is that only a single signal can be reliably sent over a single channel (frequency band within the operating range). If you use multiple mixes, then each mix would pick a separate channel.

This is to keep the latency as low as possible. While 10-20mSec is a pretty good latency for a 802.11 wireless network for your phone or home, so much latency in an audio signal would be down right disturbing! You really need to design an IEM system to have 1/10th of that to work well.

 

[Scott Bolt]

Re: X32 Networking Cards

I just recorded a live show yesterday. X32-FW-MacBook-external USB drive-Reaper.
For me, I will NEVER sell my old MacBook just so I can reliably record live shows. I don't understand why weekend live recordists need to keep upgrading laptops all the time. I just keep what works and keep my piece of mind.

If it aint broke

 

[drew gandy]

Re: Gate/Ducker - Aux in channels

Why can you not enable a gate/ducker on the Aux in channels in wonder?

It seems clear that because there is not dynamics processing on the aux channels, there is no ducking available, at least directly. But, and this is for all the X32 guru's, is there a way to apply ducking to a signal coming in on the aux inputs through some back alley approach? Since aux 5 and 6 are the ones with RCA jacks I suspect that they are used for playback of pre recorded music most often and therefore are the channels you would most likely want to duck...

 

[Klaus Mock]

Re: Gate/Ducker - Aux in channels

It seems clear that because there is not dynamics processing on the aux channels, there is no ducking available, at least directly. But, and this is for all the X32 guru's, is there a way to apply ducking to a signal coming in on the aux inputs through some back alley approach? Since aux 5 and 6 are the ones with RCA jacks I suspect that they are used for playback of pre recorded music most often and therefore are the channels you would most likely want to duck...

For all input channels you can choose the input source. So you can assign the aux ins to any full featured channel if you need dynamic processing on those inputs. Go to the home config screen of the desired channels and select the aux in you want as source.

 

[Jan Duwe]

Re: X32 Networking Cards

Yes but you cant have a device inserted real time like an Dugan auto mixer and use the Adat designated an in insert i/o unless I am missing something. In a perfect world it would be inserted post fader. It can be done currently in an analog state by using bus outs and returning via unused channels but this can be done in all the Yamaha digi desks currently via adat and its a lifesaver for panel discussions other applications where you would use a post fader digi i/o.

If this is do able with the current expansion card routing implementation please enlighten me as to how to do it.

Dear Chris,

The X32 expansion slot offers 32x32 channel I/O for whatever outboard processing you may wish to apply.
(...compare to your Y.LS9 slot, which allows only 16x16...) Afaik, the Dugan would work on 8...max.16 channels, only.

OPTION 1
You can assign the X32's direct ouputs of the local preamps directly to the card outs:
--> Routing/card out > Output 1-32 = Local Out 1-32
This works independent from the input channel processing, so you don't need to put any local inputs on any channel at all. You may also use stagebox signals via AES50, if you prefer. Note, however, whenever preamps aren't patched to input channels, their phantom and gain settings need to be controlled from the Setup/preamps page, only.

You can then return the card inputs to the channel inputs:
--> Routing/home > Input 1-32 = Card In 1-32

OPTION 2
If 16 channels of outboard processing (i.e. for your Dugan automixer) is enough, and you prefer having control over the exact insert point for processing, then you may patch the preamps (local or AES50) to some unused channel layers, say 17-32.
--> Routing/home > Input 1-16 = Card In 1-16, Input 17-32 = Local In 1-16
--> Routing/P16 > P16 channel 1-16 = Direct Out ch 17-32, select the signal tap as needed
--> Routing/card out > Output 1-16 = P16 channel 1-16
This way you got full control over the insert point, and you can apply channel processing and even have separate faders prior and after your external automixing control...

Hope that helps.

Best,
Jan