X32 Discussion

Re: NAMM

Mateusz Ciesiółka;73145 said:
I agree with one exception - I wouldn't like to see Behringer changing price policy to the Apple model (I mean overpriced).
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So you don't want Behringer to supply reasonably well designed and built hardware, free and easy software upgrades, and constant and readily available service in convenient locations at minimal to no cost?
 
Re: NAMM

Mateusz Ciesiółka;73145 said:
I agree with one exception - I wouldn't like to see Behringer changing price policy to the Apple model (I mean overpriced).
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Hi Mateusz,

Although I "Like"'d your comment, I disagree with "overpriced". Apple gives good value for the price IMHO.

The X32 series of gear gives unbelievable value for the price, and I'm in the process of believing the same about the iNuke amps (at least the non-DSP, which are the only ones I've had experience with).

My hope is that the unbelievable value of Behringer stays and expands, rather than going to "good value". This is why I liked your comment.

Dan
 
Re: NAMM

Christian Boche said:
Wow - it comes even with a free screw driver:-)

BTW: We had this topic before.
The Midas Pro and the X32 both usesing Linux. Midas uses a standard computer mainboard and swappable psu's. The X32 comes with kind of industrial motherboard (don't know the right english term for it). The X32 is not designed by Midas. Midas/KlarkTeknik provided the MicPre Design and the AES50 stuff - that's all.
Windows embedded is used by Digico and partly in the Soundcraft Vi for example.

BTW2: Only two days left, until V.2 is on show:-)
Christian
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I also caught the free screw driver. Not very handy for the repair tech as he needs the screw driver to open the box.
 
Re: NAMM

Ipad app. Having used the Ipad app for mixing quite a few shows I have had a problem with the location of the mute buttons. Has anyone else had a problem with the location of them. I am trying to figure out how to get past accidentally hitting them. On the other hand a friend of mine wishes his Midas app was as nice as the X32 app. I also can't wait to see version 2.0 when the NAMM show starts.
 
Re: NAMM

Tom Manchester said:
So you don't want Behringer to supply reasonably well designed and built hardware, free and easy software upgrades, and constant and readily available service in convenient locations at minimal to no cost?
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Agree, but Behringer seems to be keeping a price very reasonable. Not ridiculously overpriced like QSC. There is competition in this area. With Apple products there's none, no one else makes hardware and software as package products, and I totally agree with Dan: Apple stuff is good value for the money. Yes, there are other laptops and tablets, but no one else makes MacBooks running OS X or iPads and iPhones with iOS, so Apple is the one and only and can charge premium prices. Behringer (and many others) have chosen Mac and iPad as platform of choice for remote control of their music gear for a reason. With X32 there are no choice: Mac and iPad only, Android apps for X32 are not from Behringer and aren't officially supported.
 
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Re: NAMM

Arik Semagin said:
Agree, but Behringer seems to be keeping a price very reasonable. Not ridiculously overpriced like QSC. There is competition in this area. With Apple products there's none, no one else makes hardware and software as package products, and I totally agree with Dan: Apple stuff is good value for the money. Yes, there are other laptops and tablets, but no one else makes MacBooks running OS X or iPads and iPhones with iOS, so Apple is the one and only and can charge premium prices. Behringer (and many others) have chosen Mac and iPad as platform of choice for remote control of their music gear for a reason. With X32 there are no choice: Mac and iPad only, Android apps for X32 are not from Behringer and aren't officially supported.
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I find the comment about QSC unwarranted. There is nothing that QSC makes that is comparable to Behringer. QSC builds everything in the USA except for the GX and buckets for the K series. If you want a built to order product where the company tracks everything with bar code, tracking the exact date, time and people who manufactured and tested it, QSC is your choice. The K series is the number one selling series of MI speakers, PERIOD. They have a great warranty, and the best thing about that is, few people need to make use of it.
 
Re: NAMM

Robert Lofgren said:
It's the chicken and egg scenario.
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Time travel solves the chicken and egg conundrum.

How can you open the box when the screwdriver is inside, and how did it get there in the beginning.
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That's a tough one, I have no solution, it must be one of those mysteries of the universe that we are not yet ready to fathom.

Could it be that the screwdriver covers the serial number. Nah, that would be too easy :twisted:
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Why would Behringer spend the money for thousands of screwdrivers to cover up serial numbers when they could just as easily develop a piece of tape to do the same job, or even solve the problem by omitting the serial number in the first place? No, I think it is more likely that the screwdriver is coded, and that the rack will selfdestruct if you try to remove the boards using anything but the screwdriver that belongs to that particular unit or a screwdriver with a universal pass code.

Looking at the aux input board, the chips close to the inputs, are they buffer chips or op-amp packages?
 
Re: NAMM

Arik Semagin said:
Agree, but Behringer seems to be keeping a price very reasonable. Not ridiculously overpriced like QSC. There is competition in this area. With Apple products there's none, no one else makes hardware and software as package products, and I totally agree with Dan: Apple stuff is good value for the money. Yes, there are other laptops and tablets, but no one else makes MacBooks running OS X or iPads and iPhones with iOS, so Apple is the one and only and can charge premium prices. Behringer (and many others) have chosen Mac and iPad as platform of choice for remote control of their music gear for a reason. With X32 there are no choice: Mac and iPad only, Android apps for X32 are not from Behringer and aren't officially supported.
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The actual product is fairly irrelevant, it's the whole package. I bought a $300 compaq laptop from Walmart a few years ago, it worked well up until it suddenly died after a few years of use, it was made of cheap plastic, if there was a problem with it maybe I could call a 1-800 number or take it to a local computer repair place. Definitely could not rely on Walmart for service.

I recently bought a Mac Mini to use with my SC48. When I went to the Mac store, one of the roughly 50 employees in the store at the time was knowledgeable with computer recording and was able to go over with me the specs of the computer and make sure I got the right model. If there was a problems could bring it back no questions asked. The hardware fit an finish of the Mac is sleek and everything fits and clicks together perfectly. If I have any future questions, the store is 10 minutes from my house and has people who know the product down to the ram chips if needed.

The Mac cost twice as much as the compaq, but it costs money to have a well staffed store and product support. My point is, if you expect a complete premium product package, expect to pay a little more up front for it, or you can buy cheap now and just pay more later down the road if additional service is needed. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with current behringer service, etc. I'm just saying look at virtually any product that is regarded as "premium" or "expensive" and you will likely see you are paying for more than the hardware.
 
Re: NAMM

Arik Semagin said:
Not ridiculously overpriced like QSC.
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QSC has a long and admirable history of developing new technologies in-house, designing and building excellent products and standing behind them 110%.
They represent some of the best value products accepted at a professional level our industry offers. When you call them "ridiculously overpriced" your ass is showing.
 
Re: NAMM

Tom Manchester said:
I'm not saying there is anything wrong with current behringer service, etc. I'm just saying look at virtually any product that is regarded as "premium" or "expensive" and you will likely see you are paying for more than the hardware.
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except that's not strictly true - if you look at Behringer and the x32, they have specifically elongated their warranty more than the competition (at least in the UK, i assume 3 years also isn't standard in other territories, thomann's promise not withstanding) and Behringer actually go looking for issues to sort on multiple forums, showing that premium service doesn't have to cost the buyer a premium - it just takes a manufacturer to sacrifice a small profit to invest in their customers. - now THAT'S a game changer.
 
Re: NAMM

Tim Ringgenberg said:
Ipad app. Having used the Ipad app for mixing quite a few shows I have had a problem with the location of the mute buttons. Has anyone else had a problem with the location of them. I am trying to figure out how to get past accidentally hitting them. On the other hand a friend of mine wishes his Midas app was as nice as the X32 app. I also can't wait to see version 2.0 when the NAMM show starts.
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They are easy to hit accidentally but can be disabled.
 
Sonic screwdriwer ?

Per Søvik said:
Time travel solves the chicken and egg conundrum.

That's a tough one, I have no solution, it must be one of those mysteries of the universe that we are not yet ready to fathom.

Why would Behringer spend the money for thousands of screwdrivers to cover up serial numbers when they could just as easily develop a piece of tape to do the same job, or even solve the problem by omitting the serial number in the first place? No, I think it is more likely that the screwdriver is coded, and that the rack will selfdestruct if you try to remove the boards using anything but the screwdriver that belongs to that particular unit or a screwdriver with a universal pass code.
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Hello

PERhaps it is THE screwdriwer with universal pass code

I sense present of Doctor!!!

could it be Uli is present incarnation of Doctor - and while checking premises he accidentally dropped his sonic screwdriwer and it ended in your unit.

Or is it a sign that you are chosen to be next ?

Now we have question - why is He here - who are Daleks ? Are they to take over at NAMM ?

Who ?

Clock is ticking - we will soon know.
 
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Re: NAMM

Brent Handy said:
I find the comment about QSC unwarranted. There is nothing that QSC makes that is comparable to Behringer. QSC builds everything in the USA except for the GX and buckets for the K series. If you want a built to order product where the company tracks everything with bar code, tracking the exact date, time and people who manufactured and tested it, QSC is your choice. The K series is the number one selling series of MI speakers, PERIOD. They have a great warranty, and the best thing about that is, few people need to make use of it.
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I like QSC, most of my main mobile PA boxes are QSC HPR153i, have six of them. Subs are JBL SRX-728s, but powered by QSC PLX-3602 amps. Also have GX-7 amps driving JBL dual 15" sidefills. Had to get them all used, HPRs were no longer available as new, amps were like new, barely used. Had K-12 as floor monitors before switching to in-ears. Small QSCs are reasonable, only product that's priced over the top is KLA line array. $2500 for a KLA-12 two-way 12" speaker (basic block of KLA), which is essentially the same as $800 K-12, in slightly different box, is way too much. Same about KLA-181 sub, same speaker as KW-181 floor sub in slightly bigger box and line array mounting hardware, but costs $2399, twice as much.

"Made in USA" has little value, for me it's rather admitting own inability to set up cost-efficient production overseas. All our Apple products are made in China, mostly by Foxconn (contract manufacturer), and nobody complains about quality of iPhones, iPads and MacBooks. And as Behringer has shown us, you can make quality products in China by having own factory where you control every aspect of production. Essentially it is German factory in China, staffed by Chinese workers. I'd rather see them assembling products, following instructions to the last dot, than union-rotten American workforce that will drive cost through the roof.
 
Re: NAMM

Christian Boche said:
Wow - it comes even with a free screw driver:-)

BTW: We had this topic before.
The Midas Pro and the X32 both usesing Linux.
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According to Thomas Zint the OS is written by them self.

Christian Stahl und Thomas Zint von Behringer
Xound: Es gibt ja viele Digital-Pulte und Recorder, die intern eine PC-Struktur haben. Worauf basiert die X32-Technologie?

Zint: Das X32 basiert auf keinen solchen PC-Strukturen, sondern es ist eine komplette Eigenentwicklung von uns. Sämtliche Wandler-, Processing- und DSP Einheiten sind von uns selbst entwickelt worden. Das geht weiter bis zum Betriebssystem, welches wir selbst geschrieben haben. Wir haben also volle Kontrolle über alles, was dort passiert. Das ist vielleicht auch einer der Gründe, warum wir in relativ kurzer Zeit mit einem kleinen Team zu diesem Ergebnis gekommen sind.
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While looking at the file system I saw no traces of linux (or any other resonably known os).

Btw, the mcu/SoC is the arm-based mx253 and the system is stored on a 128mb sd-card.
 
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Re: NAMM

Per Søvik said:
Time travel solves the chicken and egg conundrum.
...
That's a tough one, I have no solution, it must be one of those mysteries of the universe that we are not yet ready to fathom
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I think that time travel solves the screwdriver issue as well.

In the future let the screwdriver travel back in time after you have closed the box. Now in the present time take the future (or the present?) screwdriber and put into the box before using the other screwdriver to close the box.

I'm not certain what happens if you put the present screwdriver into the box using the future screwdriver to close it and then send the future screwdriver back to the future. That scenario becomes somewhat tricky...
 
Re: NAMM

Arik Semagin said:
"Made in USA" has little value, for me it's rather admitting own inability to set up cost-efficient production overseas. All our Apple products are made in China, mostly by Foxconn (contract manufacturer), and nobody complains about quality of iPhones, iPads and MacBooks. And as Behringer has shown us, you can make quality products in China by having own factory where you control every aspect of production. Essentially it is German factory in China, staffed by Chinese workers. I'd rather see them assembling products, following instructions to the last dot, than union-rotten American workforce that will drive cost through the roof.
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Motorola is moving their factories back to the USA, and prices haven't skyrocketed in response (in fact, the Moto X is probably the best value phone they've released in ages). There's no law of the universe that says you can't have a factory in the USA and have low-cost products.

Not to mention, your cavalier dismissal of American workers demonstrates a severe misunderstanding of the situation. The most significant issue with Chinese manufacturing isn't quality. It's the labor force. In most cases, it's barely a step above slave labor. Long work days, disgustingly low pay, blatant disregard for basic human rights, and skyrocketing suicide rates.

If nothing else, we shouldn't be accepting of this sort of treatment of fellow human beings. But of course, they're in China, far far away from us, so it's easy to just pretend this isn't happening.

You want good value. There's nothing wrong with that. But don't act like Chinese labor is somehow the answer.
 
Re: NAMM

Just saw that this thread has now over 1 million views! I have not seen any number like this in any forum before. I wonder how many x32 are now out there , I see them every where now.
 
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