X32 Discussion

Re: NAMM

Tom Manchester said:
That's fairly irrelevant to my original point. Mate use made the assertion that Apple was overpriced. I said that in addition to good hardware and warranty you ALSO get a redicously we'll staffed store at virtually any mall in the USA where you can take your product if you have issues. That costs a lot of money, and you pay for it in the upfront cost of the apple product.

Mercedes makes a great car, you ALSO get free battery jumps, emergency gas, and tire changes basically anywhere you are FOR AS LONG AS THE CAR EXISTS. You pay for that premium service up front when you buy the car instead if having to pay for after the breakdown occurs.

Again, I'm not saying behringer is doing a bad thing here, I just think it's status quo for what a "good" say, compaq or HP level company should provide. I'm sure my $300 laptop came with a decent warranty and there's probably a forum or 1-800 number I can call, but there is no Compaq store in my mall, and I didn't get a free and automatic update to the new Windows when it was released.

Show me a Behringer staffed store in every guitar center with directly employed behringer employees who can answer any question and handle any issue with the same $3000 price point and then we'll talk about game changing.
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Tom, as an Apple employee I agree with you: We make premium products, most are unique and can charge premium prices. Apple Care and Apple stores are a big deal too, but keep in mind, most of Apple products users (as well as Mercedes drivers) are not technical, some need tech support even to connect to Internet! We, the sound guys, know a lot more about our equipment, I fixed bunch of mine and others' gear myself, from replacing broken pots in Mackies to swapping faders in Digi Profile, the most we may need is phone support and parts. Keep in mind also that Apple has a huge customer base, thousand times more than Behringer's. If Uli would try to open Behringer service desk in every Guitar Center, I would guess these guys will be doing nothing most of the time: there's just not enough customers out there who needs service. This is not a way to go. What Behringer does out of Las Vegas office now is way more efficient: personalized attention to every service request, instant parts availability and very knowledgeable staff. I witnessed it when I was there for training on MIDAS, they really stand behind their products, and at the sound guys level, technical. Though they will send a tech to a client's site if needed, as fast as needed.
 
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Re: NAMM

Arik Semagin said:
With all due respect to you and QSC (I own bunch of QSC amps and speakers, most were bought used and not a single one ever failed!), I still didn't get how nearly identical K-12 and KLA-12 speakers (both 12" two-way in a plastic box, with almost identical 1000W amp module) can have three times the price difference ($800 vs. $2500). Do you honestly believe that KLA-12 isn't overpriced? If yes, I thinks it's your ass, not mine that's showing (sorry for being rude, just staying in line with your vocabulary).

KLA line are the only boxes that seems to be priced over the top, rest of HPR and KW series are pretty much on par with JBL offerings. PLX-2 amps have no substitute at their price.
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QSC has never made a speaker that attracted my attention. I could not tell you one thing about them.
I have bought and abused 50+ QSC amps. I have nearly two dozen Powerlights in B rigs that I have had in service over 20 years and they still work faultlessly.
The QSC products I have used have demonstrated themselves to be superior value for dollar spent.

Your original post was a very broad stroke of the brush about two manufacturers with no reference to particular product line:

" Agree, but Behringer seems to be keeping a price very reasonable. Not ridiculously overpriced like QSC."

My apologies if I misread your post, though I went back and reread and came away with the same meaning, which I construed as bullshit.
Thank you for reposting and qualifying your previous statement.
 
Re: NAMM

Steve Payne said:
QSC has never made a speaker that attracted my attention. I could not tell you one thing about them.
I have bought and abused 50+ QSC amps. I have nearly two dozen Powerlights in B rigs that I have had in service over 20 years and they still work faultlessly.
The QSC products I have used have demonstrated themselves to be superior value for dollar spent.

Your original post was a very broad stroke of the brush about two manufacturers with no reference to particular product line:

" Agree, but Behringer seems to be keeping a price very reasonable. Not ridiculously overpriced like QSC."

My apologies if I misread your post, though I went back and reread and came away with the same meaning, which I construed as bullshit.
Thank you for reposting and qualifying your previous statement.
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Steve, I apologize for my language, the only QSC product that seems to be overpriced is KLA line array. I should have been more specific.

I operate on much smaller scale than you (not doing arena-sized tours), so I'm happy with my HPR-153s (though have to use external fans to keep them cool). QSC amps are flawless. I agree that most of powered speakers by QSC are DJ/small club grade, not for arena tours (i'm not a big fan of powered speakers either). But I agree, QSC is an excellent value for the money. Just like Apple products.
 
Re: NAMM

Arik Semagin said:
KLA line are the only boxes that seems to be priced over the top, rest of HPR and KW series are pretty much on par with JBL offerings.
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Sorry for continuing the tangent, but the reason the KLA boxes are more expensive is not arbitrary. You used JBL as the example..... Their VRX product which competes with KLA is also priced much higher than their PRX line for instance. Engineering and certification costs for boxes meant to fly that support other boxes in the same hang require considerably more engineering and certification effort before the product can be released. You are also forgetting that the HF waveguide is different, and I suspect the HF driver is capable of more output. Nevertheless, the R&D costs are much higher which brings the steeper price tag.
 
Re: NAMM

Jeff Babcock said:
Sorry for continuing the tangent, but the reason the KLA boxes are more expensive is not arbitrary. You used JBL as the example..... Their VRX product which competes with KLA is also priced much higher than their PRX line for instance. Engineering and certification costs for boxes meant to fly that support other boxes in the same hang require considerably more engineering and certification effort before the product can be released. You are also forgetting that the HF waveguide is different, and I suspect the HF driver is capable of more output. Nevertheless, the R&D costs are much higher which brings the steeper price tag.
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I think their price is a combination of many factors. I don't believe the R&D and certification costs differ that much, it's rather size of market: installed sound versus portable. There's a lot less churches, clubs, etc. who will need KLA line arrays than mobile DJs who will buy K and KW series, so the cost of R&D and manufacturing has to be spread over lesser number of units sold, what will drive costs up. Also, venues are different kind of customers than bands and DJs, they can spend more, hence able to afford higher priced systems. And even though QSC pushes mobile use of two KLA-12 tops on the stick over KLA-181 sub I never saw this setup on a gigs (only at Guitar Center demo room). Numbers speak: This setup would cost over $15K (one per side), while my six HPR-153i sounds as loud and even better, being 3-way, for under $4K.
 
Re: NAMM

Your numbers are waaaay off and you are comparing apples to oranges. You need to compare three ways to three ways. Two KLA12 tops and one sub per side are 9800, not 15k. I have seen this rig out and use it myself. Well, I use more than one sub per side. We installed a KLA based system at the nation's premier Harley dealership in KC (three per side with six subs) and it rocks down to the neighboring car dealership. We could not get that distance with KW153s. That said, I prefer the sound of the 153s. I think it is the best box they make. The KLAs can get really raunchy quick with the wrong mics and sources.
 
Re: NAMM

Here they are, Dante, Adat and MADI card for the moment..

An finally the iX16.. uhm.. X18.. :) with built-in Wifi and a 100Band RTA even behind the EQ.. nice work..

It seems to be as if there's a new designed Ipad App, too...

Now.. show me V2!! ;)
 
Re: NAMM

Tobi Juergens said:
Here they are, Dante, Adat and MADI card for the moment..

An finally the iX16.. uhm.. X18.. :) with built-in Wifi and a 100Band RTA even behind the EQ.. nice work..

It seems to be as if there's a new designed Ipad App, too...

Now.. show me V2!! ;)
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It's not looking great. I would assume any "huge" new features from V2 would show up in the feature list for the X18, but beyond the per-channel RTA, I'm not seeing much that's new.
 
Re: NAMM

It's an X32 in a nicer box with nicer faders and buttons! Nothing obviously new, software-wise, beyond the RTA and some more FX units. Hmmm...
 
Re: NAMM

Jon Malmstrom said:
Just check... Midas M32...

MIDAS M32

May give a hint of the V2 firmware :-)
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Good news for those who want an X32 but will not be seen with a Behringer :twisted:

I just hope that all our suggestions for improving the X32 weren't used for making the M32 a distinct improvement over the X32, and the best stuff therefor fail to materialize on the X32.
 
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Re: NAMM

Simon Eves said:
It's an X32 in a nicer box with nicer faders and buttons! Nothing obviously new, software-wise, beyond the RTA and some more FX units. Hmmm...
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Looks like the routing got a touchup as well. Oh, and an official android app.

The new scene management with cues and snippets sounds really great and the ability to control and route m/x32’s from one console.

If you read the marketing material it sounds like it's an update, but since the m32 didn't exist before...
 
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Re: NAMM

Robert Lofgren said:
Looks like the routing got a touchup as well. Oh, and an official android app.

If you read the marketing material it sounds like it's an update, but since the m32 didn't exist before...
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I think they made a good strategy here.. The X32 would never get the rider acceptance in higher levels that it should have with the B-name in respect to performance and sound, therefore they put 96K in a new shell and brand it as Midas. Price point will be interesting.
 
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