X32 Discussion

Re: X32 Discussion

Been doing a Jazz Concert series for a few years. Picked up an X32 and S16 for this years season. Had a power supply problem with the X32 early on but Music group service gave me great service. Fixed it, turned it around and had it back to me in 4 days. Been working great since. Just ordered an X32 Rack.

Finally got around to mixing some of the recordings from one of the shows. Straight to laptop via USB. Here's a few samples...
https://soundcloud.com/rprecording/merry-christmas-baby
https://soundcloud.com/rprecording/o-come-emmanuel-veni-veni

The console is great! Amazing power and flexibility at a killer price!

Enjoy
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Han Klein Haneveld said:
MIDAS M32

Says:

192 kHz ADC and DAC converters for outstanding audio performance.

Ad when you lick 'More' and scroll down:
Industry-Leading 192 kHz Precision
Click to expand...

The advertizing blurb doesn't actually say anything that definitely separates the design from the X32 except for the obvious externals, the faders and preamps. Those are the bits that the Midas guy at NAMM was focusing on and making a big deal of.
The Cirrus Logic CS5368 converter that sits inside the X32 (and presumably for now at least, the M32) is a "114 dB, 192 kHz, 8-Channel A/D Converter". The capability when integrated in a system depends mainly on what communication rates can be achieved between the converter and the rest of the system, the actual data rate depending on both the design of the data path and how much resources are dedicated at the processing end.
While the main chips themselves are capable of supporting 192 KHz, decisions early in the design process might limit the actual available options. The two ADSP-21371 DSPs are perfectly capable of taking 32 channels at 192 KHz and outputting 16 channels at 192 KHz without breaking a sweat, but they also have to communicate with each other, with the expansion card, the two AES50 interfaces etc.
Then of course it is the question of having the processing power to deal with a higher sample rate. I don't know if the X32 is running at 200 or 266 MHz, if it is the former, maybe turning up the clock speed is an option, I don't know. Some compromises have to be made to turn the sample rate up, the limitations of the X32 architecture will surely limit the M32 as well, as a complete redesign is surely a long way away and will only be undertaken if and when the whole family needs an overhaul.
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Matthew Merkle said:
The 100m limit is simply a certification limit. That means that the cable is only certified to work for that length. It's not unusual to hear ethernet runs reaching much further, but there's no guarantees of a solid connection if you do so. It should be noted that differing materials, EMI in the surrounding area, and how poorly the connectors on the ends are spliced can significantly impact that length, especially beyond 100m. The connections at the end alone are actually supposed to be stripped and crimped a certain way to truly reach the certified limit.
Click to expand...

With AES50, it is the sync signal timing that is critical, the delay between the flank of the master sync going out and flank of the sync being returned from the slave has to be within a certain limit (less than the clock pulse length). So even if the signal quality is exceptionally high, the delay in the cable will pose a definite limit (depending somewhat on the propagation delay characteristics of the cable)
 
Re: 2.0

Finally got 2.01 loaded the other day. Several USB sticks didn't work at all (Sandisk), one finally did (Kingston). Didn't try holding down the View button when restarting, will do so to set up another console.

In an earlier post I was really excited about the Head Amp Split feature, and spent some time with that today. This is a new feature which lets you set up House and Monitor consoles so they have separate control of their own input trims. After the controlling console sets the Head Amp gain, whether that's in its own internal inputs or the S16's, selecting "HA Split" gives each console +/- 18db of gain (in a video I saw from NAMM, Jan D. thought it was +/- 15 db when asked, but it's 18; digital gain before 2.01 used to be +/- 12db, so this is way better) to compensate for changes at the source without affecting the other console.

The question I tried to answer today was "What happens if you are in HA Split mode, have made some digital gain adjustments due to signals varying after HA Split mode was entered, and then get a radical change in source level which requires you to exit HA Split mode? What happens to your digital gain adjustments when you come back to HA Split mode?"

For the downstream console (the one taking its sync from an AES50 connector, as opposed to the upstream console with local sync which is setting the HA gain and is the decider about entering HA Split mode), nothing changes. All digital trims remain as they are. The only effect on this console is from the change in HA gain made by the upstream console, which is the same effect as before 2.01 and which is inevitable in the absence of automatic gain compensation.

For the upstream console, leaving HA Split mode and then reentering it loses ALL digital gain adjustments made while in HA Split mode, and all channels go to unity digital gain.

That is a pretty heavy result, and maybe there is no getting around it with the architecture in the console.

EDIT: Per Per's suggestion below, I tried to adjust the trim at the Preamp Page in the Setup screen (same page as the HA Split options). IT WORKS!

So once you are in HA Split mode you can stay there and still compensate for wild signal changes.

I tried to imagine a scenario where before exiting, the operator saved the console to a scene and reloaded the scene when back in HA Split mode, but that would wipe out any HA gain changes made as the reason to have left HA Split mode and is therefore pointless.

The other interesting thing is that HA Split mode is not something that is saved or recalled by a scene change. It overrides scene changes (unless I'm missing something) and remains however the operator set it (on or off), which after some thought I think may be a feature not a bug.

An amazing thing now in 2.01 is that the upstream console can now give control of the HA and of entering HA Split mode to the downstream console by checking a menu box. Previously, making a console the upstream console meant it connected directly to the inputs (whether internal or in S16) and that's how it stayed. Making the FOH console the upstream console and Monitor console the downstream one required two runs of CATx to FOH. Now you can do it with one cable run.

I'm really liking this upgrade (for many other reasons), and look forward to the iPad upgrade to match and to leaving Beta.

Thanks, Uli and all!
 
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Re: 2.0

Hallo!
Yesterday I´d updated my X32 and I pad app X32 MIX... So is there necessery to lose all presets, shows from my past work or is there some trick? Btw is there something new(some solutions) on I pad app X32 Mix since last update (it only supports 1.xx)?
Thanks a lot
Greetings from freesing Slovenia
Tomaž
 
Re: Price Drops

Dan Mortensen said:
Wow!

Just got word that there are almost across-the-board price drops on products after NAMM, most notably for this thread on almost if not all the X32 family.
Click to expand...

Has anyone heard anything about the price changes in Canada? There are some pretty unbelievable deals on these guys now! Not that they weren't quite the deal before.
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Per Søvik said:
The advertizing blurb doesn't actually say anything that definitely separates the design from the X32 except for the obvious externals, the faders and preamps. Those are the bits that the Midas guy at NAMM was focusing on and making a big deal of.
The Cirrus Logic CS5368 converter that sits inside the X32 (and presumably for now at least, the M32) is a "114 dB, 192 kHz, 8-Channel A/D Converter". The capability when integrated in a system depends mainly on what communication rates can be achieved between the converter and the rest of the system, the actual data rate depending on both the design of the data path and how much resources are dedicated at the processing end.
While the main chips themselves are capable of supporting 192 KHz, decisions early in the design process might limit the actual available options. The two ADSP-21371 DSPs are perfectly capable of taking 32 channels at 192 KHz and outputting 16 channels at 192 KHz without breaking a sweat, but they also have to communicate with each other, with the expansion card, the two AES50 interfaces etc.
Then of course it is the question of having the processing power to deal with a higher sample rate. I don't know if the X32 is running at 200 or 266 MHz, if it is the former, maybe turning up the clock speed is an option, I don't know. Some compromises have to be made to turn the sample rate up, the limitations of the X32 architecture will surely limit the M32 as well, as a complete redesign is surely a long way away and will only be undertaken if and when the whole family needs an overhaul.
Click to expand...

Excellent post, Per! Two thumbs up! Do you know which CPU they used, Intel too? If yes, then they shouldn't be 200 or 266MHz, simply because no one makes these for a long time. Though I remember that old Mackie d8b (like 10 years old) had CPU running at 166MHz, guess it was enough to handle all audio.

Great job on this post!
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Per Søvik said:
With AES50, it is the sync signal timing that is critical, the delay between the flank of the master sync going out and flank of the sync being returned from the slave has to be within a certain limit (less than the clock pulse length). So even if the signal quality is exceptionally high, the delay in the cable will pose a definite limit (depending somewhat on the propagation delay characteristics of the cable)
Click to expand...

Interesting. I've got shitload of CAT5 and CAT6, will try to make some extra long cables to see how it behaves. Will post the results here.
 
Re: 2.0

Per Søvik said:
I'm not near the console now, but wouldn't the way around the problem be to just enter the preamp page and do any adjustment there?
Click to expand...

Maybe; I am lacking in understanding of the preamp page (which is the same page where the HA Split control is located). There are parts of the console I haven't paid any attention to at all.
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Per Søvik said:
With AES50, it is the sync signal timing that is critical, the delay between the flank of the master sync going out and flank of the sync being returned from the slave has to be within a certain limit (less than the clock pulse length). So even if the signal quality is exceptionally high, the delay in the cable will pose a definite limit (depending somewhat on the propagation delay characteristics of the cable)
Click to expand...


Interesting, makes sense. I had one run that was too long for AES50 but worked for PM16.
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Arik Semagin said:
Excellent post, Per! Two thumbs up! Do you know which CPU they used, Intel too? If yes, then they shouldn't be 200 or 266MHz, simply because no one makes these for a long time.
Click to expand...

Not CPU, but DSP, the ADSP 21371 from Analog Devices , you can't really compare clock speeds. In terms of processing power, it is probably comparable to a Core i7. And there is two of them.
I can't remember if there is a CPU for housekeeping, and what that cpu might be.
 
Re: Price Drops

John Chiara said:
I got a price on an X32 Rack yesterday that had me reaching for my wallet!
Click to expand...

Yep they have lowered the price on all models, could be due to the fact that they don't need to make as much money on them as previously required or the fact that they have sold so many that to keep sales up they though a price cut was required.

According to the press release on the front page they have not only sold 100,000+ consoles they are no the biggest selling (and not just fastest selling) digital mixing console ever produced!
 
Re: Price Drops

Daniel Levi said:
Yep they have lowered the price on all models, could be due to the fact that they don't need to make as much money on them as previously required or the fact that they have sold so many that to keep sales up they though a price cut was required.

According to the press release on the front page they have not only sold 100,000+ consoles they are no the biggest selling (and not just fastest selling) digital mixing console ever produced!
Click to expand...

..or it is the coup de grâce to put the other manufacturers out of their misery :twisted:
 
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