X32 Discussion

Re: X32 Discussion

I'd wait till they get the ipad and windows/osx/debian software working with it first, unless you don't need/want to control it remotely. It is estimated to be released possibly in a week or so.
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Dan McCoy said:
So the question is: I just got 2 new x32's for our church. They have 1.15 FW in them. Since we haven't programmed anything and we are starting out from scratch would you install the 2.0 BETA FW now to get the jump on the new layout and functions?
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If your not planning to use a computer or anything wireless (ipads, iphone etc) then go ahead otherwise stay with 1.15

Ben
 
Re: X32 Warranty Warning

Declan Slater said:
I thought that an encoder would be, " Any mechanical component that may be affected by externally applied force ".
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The encoder was indeed covered for one year but one year only regardless of the 3 year warranty advertised. This limitation is stated in section 4.3 of terms and conditions. And in my opinion not obvious at all.
 
Re: X32 Warranty Warning

Oh, I see.. Those items in that list are not included, but "excluded" from the final 2 years of the 3 year warrenty. Hymph.. Bummer... So, just the main board(s), power supply and preamps are covered then at that point. Good to know...
 
Re: X32 Warranty Warning

Ali Reay said:
Yes I thought the same as you. I had a faulty encoder. The desk is over one year old and the reply from [email protected] was:
"Unfortunately, the purchase date of your equipment indicated in the information you have supplied to us shows that the encoders are no longer covered under the limited warranty terms. These parts are only covered for one year from the date of purchase therefore we will not be able to cover diagnosis and repair of this unit under the terms of the manufacturer's warranty. However, we do appreciate you as a customer and are here to assist should you have any questions or concerns. Listed below you will find your nearest factory authorized service center:"
They did offer to fix it at a cost.
As I had registered the desk and was therefore eligible for the 3 year extension, I did query this and was asked to read section 4.3 (as above).
Click to expand...

(Ok, trying a second time to reply after the first one made me fill out the number thing and then was lost.)

Huh.

That is certainly distressing, and the three year extension is definitely misleading to a non-lawyer.

Uli?

Please clarify why the extension doesn't cover anything that is likely to go wrong, or is that a self-answering question?

It definitely reduces the value of the console.

Thanks, Ali, for bringing this to our attention.

Dan
 
Re: X32 Warranty Warning

So I am used to a console with individual aux sends on each channel going to a master aux send. Then there are subgroups that I could assign any channel to and then assign that sub group to a stero mix if I wished to. I am trying to figure out the parallel in the x32. Look like they have 16 Bus sends on each channel. It appears they have combined the functionality of the previously separate into one. Can you explain the differences between the bus sends setup as pre/post and sub groups? I notice when set to a subgroup, it removes the visual of the fader on the sends page.
 
Re: X32 Warranty Warning

Dan McCoy said:
So I am used to a console with individual aux sends on each channel going to a master aux send. Then there are subgroups that I could assign any channel to and then assign that sub group to a stero mix if I wished to. I am trying to figure out the parallel in the x32. Look like they have 16 Bus sends on each channel. It appears they have combined the functionality of the previously separate into one. Can you explain the differences between the bus sends setup as pre/post and sub groups? I notice when set to a subgroup, it removes the visual of the fader on the sends page.
Click to expand...

Hi Dan,

This X32 Wiki page almost answers your question:

Mix Buses, Sub Groups and DCA Groups - x32wiki

In their answer, they leave off "sub-" when they talk about groups.

The way you describe it,

"Look like they have 16 Bus sends on each channel. It appears they have combined the functionality of the previously separate into one"

isn't quite right, IMO; they have combined those separate functions into one area, in which you can choose to have each bus be one thing or the other or something else entirely.

The console has a total of 16 internal buses. Separately, there are 16 XLR outputs. There are also 8 Effects slots, which can be stereo, for 16 more things.

You can set up those 16 internal buses to be any combination of what other consoles call "Aux" buses, and you can set them up pre or post fader, either individually or in linked pairs. The linked pairs are only an odd channel and its adjacent even channel (1+2, 17+18, never 2+3 or 1+4 or 1+17 or whatever). This linking formula is true for inputs, too.

You can also have up to 8 effects, with 8 stereo returns (I think, haven't ever tried it) if you reassign some of the inputs to be FX inputs, either on the aux level or on either of the two 16-input levels. You can have up to 8 subgroups (I think, again never tried it, maybe you can have more??).

Any output bus can be assigned to any XLR out. You can also pick direct outs from any of the input channels to put on the XLR outs.

The limitation is that you can do all those things, but you can't use more than a total of 16 internal buses, 16 XLR outputs, and 6 TRS Aux outs. You can configure it almost any way in which those limits are not exceeded. There are many more than 16 signal choices to assign to the XLR outputs, for example, but you can't use more than 16.

Does this help?

I've said several things that I've never tried, so undoubtedly experts will chime in to agree or correct.
 
Re: X32 Warranty Warning

Dan Mortensen said:
Hi Dan,

This X32 Wiki page almost answers your question:

Mix Buses, Sub Groups and DCA Groups - x32wiki

In their answer, they leave off "sub-" when they talk about groups.

The way you describe it,

"Look like they have 16 Bus sends on each channel. It appears they have combined the functionality of the previously separate into one"

isn't quite right, IMO; they have combined those separate functions into one area, in which you can choose to have each bus be one thing or the other or something else entirely.

The console has a total of 16 internal buses. Separately, there are 16 XLR outputs. There are also 8 Effects slots, which can be stereo, for 16 more things.

You can set up those 16 internal buses to be any combination of what other consoles call "Aux" buses, and you can set them up pre or post fader, either individually or in linked pairs. The linked pairs are only an odd channel and its adjacent even channel (1+2, 17+18, never 2+3 or 1+4 or 1+17 or whatever). This linking formula is true for inputs, too.

You can also have up to 8 effects, with 8 stereo returns (I think, haven't ever tried it) if you reassign some of the inputs to be FX inputs, either on the aux level or on either of the two 16-input levels. You can have up to 8 subgroups (I think, again never tried it, maybe you can have more??).

Any output bus can be assigned to any XLR out. You can also pick direct outs from any of the input channels to put on the XLR outs.

The limitation is that you can do all those things, but you can't use more than a total of 16 internal buses, 16 XLR outputs, and 6 TRS Aux outs. You can configure it almost any way in which those limits are not exceeded. There are many more than 16 signal choices to assign to the XLR outputs, for example, but you can't use more than 16.

Does this help?

I've said several things that I've never tried, so undoubtedly experts will chime in to agree or correct.
Click to expand...


Dan. Thanks for the reply. I didnt know about the wiki! That's awesome info.
Your response was helpful. The one thing I am still confused about is you can presetup the bus config on teh setup->config tab to be (for example 6+6+4) That is the default starting point for all the channels' send bus configs. However you can change the setup PER channel. So on channel 1 you can set send 1 to Pre-Fade and on channel 2 you can set the same send to GRP. That doesn't make sense to me as how can the same output fader serve the role of sub group and master for the "aux group"?
 
Re: X32 Warranty Warning

Dear all,

Allow us to comment on the warranty policy.

It is common that manufacturers issue warranty exclusions in order to provide a reasonable balance between customer as well as manufacturer protection. Our warranty policies are publicly available and posted on our website www.music-group.com/warranty.

Warranty exclusions usually relate to wear and tear parts and in particular to electro-mechanical components. While we test those parts for extreme life-cycles at our factory, their life cycle very much depends on actual use and environment.

We receive products where customers complain about defective faders or pots. On inspection we often find excessive dust or liquid that was spilled into the faders, damaged VR’s or encoders where the shafts have been mechanically impacted or even sheared off and other damage that is clearly caused by improper handling, such as mechanical stress during transportation and that age-old issue of spilled drinks in the console. Of course such defects are not covered by any manufacturer and in order to avoid customer disputes, we exclude these parts in our warranty policies.

Similar to car breaks and tires, components’ life cycles very much depend on the customer usage.

Another example is LCD screens. These parts by nature will lose brightness and contrast over time and hence every LCD manufacturer will restrict its warranty. As these are components that are not made by our company, we have to limit the warranty to the original manufacturer’s warranty.

We fully stand behind our products and therefore believe we offer a generous 3-year warranty program. We encourage you to compare it with other competitors.

We will soon provide a video where we demonstrate a 1 million life cycle test of our fader in time-lapse mode.
 
Re: X32 Warranty Warning

Joe Sanborn said:
Dear all,

Allow us to comment on the warranty policy.

It is common that manufacturers issue warranty exclusions in order to provide a reasonable balance between customer as well as manufacturer protection. Our warranty policies are publicly available and posted on our website www.music-group.com/warranty.

Warranty exclusions usually relate to wear and tear parts and in particular to electro-mechanical components. While we test those parts for extreme life-cycles at our factory, their life cycle very much depends on actual use and environment.

We receive products where customers complain about defective faders or pots. On inspection we often find excessive dust or liquid that was spilled into the faders, damaged VR’s or encoders where the shafts have been mechanically impacted or even sheared off and other damage that is clearly caused by improper handling, such as mechanical stress during transportation and that age-old issue of spilled drinks in the console. Of course such defects are not covered by any manufacturer and in order to avoid customer disputes, we exclude these parts in our warranty policies.

snip
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Hi Joe,

Thanks for this, but although stating that warranty repairs don't cover customer abuse makes total sense, not covering the parts at all beyond the first year simply shifts the customer disputes from those who would try to take advantage of you to those who IMO would have a legitimate complaint that your parts didn't last even three years in the absence of abuse.

To my way of thinking, what you have is a one-year warranty, and somehow covering some untouchable parts for longer does not change that.

I did read that page before buying, and read it as saying that those parts are covered under warranty for one year, but registering online changed your warranty to three years. The stated one year limit was superceded by the change to three years, which I like a lot better than what you and the Care Center that Ali spoke to are saying.

Although I like the console a lot, I've always wondered if there was going to be a "Gotcha!", since in many ways it seems too good to be true. Maybe this is it, that the console is designed to last a year and after that it's my problem? Do we need to change our mindsets to it being a disposable product? I know that nothing lasts forever, but going from a three year expected lifespan to one year is a jump.

Anybody else know how this warranty compares to other digital mixing consoles of whatever price? For all I know they could be the same, but I don't know.

Sorry,
Dan

Edit/Correction: Since Juergen showed below that all other manufacturers (so far!) only offer a one year warranty on any digital mixer, apparently Behringer's warranty is pretty generous. I stand corrected. This circumstance above is not a "Gotcha".
 
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Re: X32 Warranty Warning

Dan McCoy said:
Dan. Thanks for the reply. I didnt know about the wiki! That's awesome info.
Your response was helpful. The one thing I am still confused about is you can presetup the bus config on teh setup->config tab to be (for example 6+6+4) That is the default starting point for all the channels' send bus configs. However you can change the setup PER channel. So on channel 1 you can set send 1 to Pre-Fade and on channel 2 you can set the same send to GRP. That doesn't make sense to me as how can the same output fader serve the role of sub group and master for the "aux group"?
Click to expand...
Hi Dan,

Just to add to Dan M's indepth post, the following might help in understanding the differences of the various mixbus choices.

The X32 mixbus is the mixing or combining of various channel signals for a common output. These busses can simulate the two types of busses found on the analog consoles - the Aux and the Groups.

The first 4 channel send assignment choices (pre-EQ, post-EQ, pre-fader, post-fader) simulate the Aux busses that are commonly used for monitor or other mixes.

The fifth channel send assignment choice (sub-group) simulates the functionality found in the Groups busses that are commonly used for grouping similar type of channels (drums, etc) then sending to main faders.

Your subsequent question regarding the Setup, config tab, those are default starting points as you mentioned and can be over-ridden by the individual channel sends.

The last question you have that seems to confuse you, looking at it from the mixbus perspective, I can see why it could be confusing. Look at it from the channel sends perspective and I think it makes more sense. The mixbus doesn't really care what type of sent signal it gets (pre, post, sub). It is going to combine whatever it receives.

Hope that helps.

Paul
 
Re: X32 Warranty Warning

not sure you are fair dan... actually behringer is better then others...

Digico UK Ltd warrants for a period of 1 year from the date of purchase of the Product.

Allen & Heath. Limited One Year Warranty. This product has been manufactured by ALLEN & HEATH and is warranted to be free from
defects in materials or workmanship for the period of one year from the date of purchase by the original owner.

Yamaha offers 1 year on mixers.
http://usa.yamaha.com/support/warranty/live_sound/images/PAC_LiveSoundProductsSept2012.pdf

Avid. The limited warranty covers the hardware for one (1) year after it has been acquired by the
first user.
http://www.avid.com/static/resources/common/documents/corporate/Avid_Hardware_Warranty_en.pdf

Soundcarft. took me a whole to find and It is 1 year from purchase. But they are not transparent. Try to find out from their website , very difficult
Soundcraft - [Warranty]

interesting, behringer actually has the best warranty and the lowest price for their products.
 
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Re: X32 Warranty Warning

Dan McCoy said:
Dan. Thanks for the reply. I didnt know about the wiki! That's awesome info.
Your response was helpful. The one thing I am still confused about is you can presetup the bus config on teh setup->config tab to be (for example 6+6+4) That is the default starting point for all the channels' send bus configs. However you can change the setup PER channel. So on channel 1 you can set send 1 to Pre-Fade and on channel 2 you can set the same send to GRP. That doesn't make sense to me as how can the same output fader serve the role of sub group and master for the "aux group"?
Click to expand...
Forgot to add this explanation to the above

Aux type mixbuses have separate channel sends faders and mutes which are independant of the channel strip faders and mutes. If the mixbusses are linked as a stereo pair, then there is a separate pan from the channel strip pan.


Sub-group mixbusses are in essence post-fader stereo linked mixbusses with the channel sends faders fixed at unity (0db). This means that the sub-group relies on the channel strips for signal strength, mutes and the stereo field (panning).

Paul
 
Re: X32 Warranty Warning

Juergen Riemann said:
others are worse...

Digico UK Ltd warrants for a period of 1 year from the date of purchase of the Product.

Limited One Year Warranty. This product has been manufactured by ALLEN & HEATH and is warranted to be free from
defects in materials or workmanship for the period of one year from the date of purchase by the original owner.
Click to expand...

OK, that's good to know. The Digico one is more surprising than the Allen & Heath; the Digico is true for all their products?

If this pattern holds, maybe it is yet another indication that the digital mix consoles are basically computers, and are subject to the replacement-every-few-years mindset that we seem to accept with computers.

I've said before and will say again, if the above is true, I'm much happier with a few thousand dollar disposable item than a multi-ten thousand dollar item.

Thanks, Juergen.
 
Re: X32 Warranty Warning

Juergen Riemann said:
not sure you are fair dan... actually behringer is better then others...

Digico UK Ltd warrants for a period of 1 year from the date of purchase of the Product.

Allen & Heath. Limited One Year Warranty. This product has been manufactured by ALLEN & HEATH and is warranted to be free from
defects in materials or workmanship for the period of one year from the date of purchase by the original owner.

Yamaha offers 1 year on mixers.
http://usa.yamaha.com/support/warranty/live_sound/images/PAC_LiveSoundProductsSept2012.pdf

Avid. The limited warranty covers the hardware for one (1) year after it has been acquired by the
first user.
http://www.avid.com/static/resources/common/documents/corporate/Avid_Hardware_Warranty_en.pdf
Click to expand...

Dan Mortensen said:
OK, that's good to know. The Digico one is more surprising than the Allen & Heath; the Digico is true for all their products?

If this pattern holds, maybe it is yet another indication that the digital mix consoles are basically computers, and are subject to the replacement-every-few-years mindset that we seem to accept with computers.

I've said before and will say again, if the above is true, I'm much happier with a few thousand dollar disposable item than a multi-ten thousand dollar item.

Thanks, Juergen.
Click to expand...

Ah, you edited to add more while I was replying.

This still makes me feel better, hope I'm being fair now.

Edit: Soundcraft is cagy about stating their warranty. Had to download the Vi6 User Guide to see that it's 12 months.


"If within the period of twelve months from the date of delivery of the Equipment to the End User it shall prove defectiveby reason only of faulty materials and/or workmanship to such an extent that the effectiveness and/or usability thereofis materially affected the Equipment or the defective component should be returned to the Dealer or to Soundcraft andsubject to the following conditions the Dealer or Soundcraft will repair or replace the defective components. Anycomponents replaced will become the property of Soundcraft. "
 
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Re: X32 Warranty Warning

Presonus is also not upfront... you have to dig deep...

PreSonus Audio Electronics Inc. warrants this product to be free of defects in material and workmanship for a
period of one year from the date of original retail purchase. This warranty is enforceable only by the original
retail purchaser

so behringer still has the longest warranty...
 
Re: X32 Warranty Warning

Juergen Riemann said:
so behringer still has the longest warranty...
Click to expand...

Amazing, isn't it? Audio gear is becoming just another commodity. I am guilty of buying Korean mic cables (although their connectors leave something to be desired, so I get the German) and Chinese road cases, and now Chinese/German/British amplifiers and consoles.

Hand-crafted audio gear that will last a generation doing live sound is almost a thing of the past, pretty clearly. Stuff built by robots and comparatively low-wage labor certainly does the job.

I'm still hoping for a five year product lifespan before needing to move on from the X32, though. Entering year 2 now.
 
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