X32 Discussion

saving state

Having re read Jan's post on the other forum referenced he seems to be saying that saving the state can TAKE up to 2 mins & not done every 2 mins - but then if it continuously initiates a state save this could be every 2 mins (depending on how long the last state save took)!
Would explain the apparent randomness of the restored state depending when a change is made during the state save background process!?

Edit: Hi Jan could you clarify -I have probably got this wrong.
 
Re: saving state

Nick Davis said:
Having re read Jan's post on the other forum referenced he seems to be saying that saving the state can TAKE up to 2 mins & not done every 2 mins - but then if it continuously initiates a state save this could be every 2 mins (depending on how long the last state save took)!
Would explain the apparent randomness of the restored state depending when a change is made during the state save background process!?

Edit: Hi Jan could you clarify -I have probably got this wrong.
Click to expand...
I hate crosspostings:
Robert Lofgren said:
Again, reading between the lines.

A full snapshot takes five seconds to complete. The automatic snapshot is made once every two minutes. This time is fixed intervalls.


Depending on when in time you change your setting on your console the automatic save may not be executed until after two minutes from that change.


You may be lucky and make a change that gets saved right away since the time is up. On the other hand you may just have missed the save and you need to wait for the next one.


It's just like waiting for a bus that is scheduled every two minutes. As long as you get to the bus stop before the next bus arrives you'll catch that bus. The waiting game depends on when you arrived, because the bus won't wait for you. If the bus closes its doors on you before you enter it you'll have to wait another two minutes. But on the other hand if you manage to get inside the bus just as the doors closes you didn't have to wait.


But the thing with the x32 is that the two minute intervall is hidden from you as an user so your worst case scenario will always be two minutes.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Dual-Channel Analyzer Setup with X32?

Simon Eves said:
So I asked this question in a post with several other questions a few weeks ago, but I don't think anyone picked up on it, so I'm asking again.

I am using my X32 Firewire interface for SMAART (just the demo for now) for tuning the PA for my upcoming musical theatre production.

I have the board set up with simple LR mixing, routing L to Matrix 1, R to Matrix 2, and L+R to Matrix 3 (nominally for front fill, if it turns out I have room for those speakers) and the Matrixes routed to Analog Outs 14-16 and thence to the speakers, with the intention of doing the room and speaker corrective EQ in the Matrices.

For measurement purposes I would probably patch Main L to all three Matrixes, one at a time.

I bring the measurement mic into a spare channel and then send the pre-everything direct out of that channel to Card Out and select that computer input as Channel 1 of the Analyzer.

Presumably I need to send the plain pre-Matrix (and hence pre-corrective-EQ) Main L to Channel 2 of the Analyzer, but...

Is it correct to simply route this directly and digitally (via a P16 out to get it into a sensible place on the Card Outs)...?

Or should I route Main L to a spare Analog Out and loop that back into another spare channel (and then route that channel to Card Out, the same as the measurement mic one) with a (short) XLR.

Intuitively, I am thinking that the latter is more correct, since it will include the mixer's analog I/O (D/A, pre-amp, A/D) in the reference path, which will cancel out their (presumably equal but unknown) effect on the physical speaker output and (presumably more critically) the measurement mic input.

I'm also sure it will make very little difference which method I choose, certainly not enough to improve the results, but the engineer in me just wants to know! :)

Thoughts, please.
Click to expand...

That sounds like the 2nd method would work but without really trying it I couldn't say for sure. Have you given it a shot?
 
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Re: Dual-Channel Analyzer Setup with X32?

Simon Eves said:
So I asked this question in a post with several other questions a few weeks ago, but I don't think anyone picked up on it, so I'm asking again.
Click to expand...

It depends on what you want to measure, if you from a purely academic point of view want to make sure that you are only measuring and tuning the speaker set up, then you need to cancel the influence and the latency of the X32 outputs, but in practice, particularly if you are tuning the system that includes the X32, then the extra loop makes no difference. The time constant will change by 0.6 mS if you introduce the loop, but that is of no consequence since it equates to moving the measurement microphone about 7 1/2 inches.
 
Re: Dual-Channel Analyzer Setup with X32?

I tried both methods, and other than the delay being a fraction of a ms different, I couldn't tell any difference in the graphs. I went with the internal routing, mainly because I ran out of short XLR cables for hooking up the band and needed the one I was using for the loop-back! :)
 
Xuf recording

So today we hooked up Logic Pro X to the x32 and recorded 32 channels. I didn't realize it was pretty much straight off the inputs. I think it's even pre-preamps? Is there a good diagram that shows where the taps are for the card? But I must say that playing it back was pretty much the most amazing thing I have ever done. Close my eyes and could have sworn the entire band was there.


We have 3 different praise bands that rotate through. We will record each one and then record the settings for each one and then use those to setup each time. Starting to love this board more and more.
 
Re: Xuf recording

Dan McCoy said:
So today we hooked up Logic Pro X to the x32 and recorded 32 channels. I didn't realize it was pretty much straight off the inputs. I think it's even pre-preamps? Is there a good diagram that shows where the taps are for the card? But I must say that playing it back was pretty much the most amazing thing I have ever done. Close my eyes and could have sworn the entire band was there.


We have 3 different praise bands that rotate through. We will record each one and then record the settings for each one and then use those to setup each time. Starting to love this board more and more.
Click to expand...

Just looking at things in X32 Edit, the channel Direct Out default is pre-EQ, pre-fader. It's not possible for them to be pre-"preamp" as the analog preamp comes before the A/D conversion.
 
Re: Xuf recording

Tim McCulloch said:
I hate to bum you out,
but you have without a doubt,
the ugliest aura this poor boy has ever seen.
Click to expand...

How come you have what I think is a lyric by an obscure Seattle guy, Mark Graham (I think that's his name) which I have only ever heard sung by the autoharpist Bryan Bowers? And not heard it or of Mark for 20 years or so.

Are things different in Kansas?
 
Re: Xuf recording

Dan Mortensen said:
How come you have what I think is a lyric by an obscure Seattle guy, Mark Graham (I think that's his name) which I have only ever heard sung by the autoharpist Bryan Bowers? And not heard it or of Mark for 20 years or so.

Are things different in Kansas?
Click to expand...

We know good music when we hear it. :)

Marley's Ghost, performs "I've Seen Your Aura and it's Ugly". They've been a staple at the Walnut Valley Festival since 1994. Bowers has played the same festival, on and off, since 1975. We've been providing for 1 or more stages for that festival, on and off, since 1988. I can sing along. It's very rewarding to work with level of talent they present.
 
Re: Xuf recording

Tim McCulloch said:
We know good music when we hear it. :)

Marley's Ghost, performs "I've Seen Your Aura and it's Ugly". They've been a staple at the Walnut Valley Festival since 1994. Bowers has played the same festival, on and off, since 1975. We've been providing for 1 or more stages for that festival, on and off, since 1988. I can sing along. It's very rewarding to work with level of talent they present.
Click to expand...

Hanno Meingast said:
I believe Mark played with Bela Fleck for a while ( Flecktones), as well as with "Open House"
Click to expand...

Yes, I know Marley's Ghost, too. They are from just north of here, although Ed Littlefield I think was in Seattle proper for a time. Is Bryan still playing there? Like I say, haven't seen him for a very long time.

I'd be surprised if this Mark Graham was with Bela Fleck; he was singing and playing average but effective harmonica and that's it, when I did a couple shows with him way back when. Other instrumental gifts weren't obvious.
 
Re: Xuf recording

Dan Mortensen said:
Yes, I know Marley's Ghost, too. They are from just north of here, although Ed Littlefield I think was in Seattle proper for a time. Is Bryan still playing there? Like I say, haven't seen him for a very long time.
Click to expand...

Bowers last performed at Walnut Valley in 2011. He's due back, IMHO. Another performer long overdue for a re-book: Tom Paxton. While I'm totally derailing the X32 thread I want to plug a duo called Still On the Hill. Donna & Kelly write wonderful story-telling songs and a few years ago they got a grant to research the music, musicians and songwriters of the Ozarks and then return to play the songs they wrote about the people they'd met. More here: Still on the Hill ~ Folkgrass Duo of the Ozarks Obligatory live audio content: I use a Rode NT-2 for Donna's fiddle and the vocals; Kelly likes a spot mic for his banjo and guitar. Some of the instruments are "Ozark originals" and not commercial products. No monitors, fairgrounds grandstand 295' long. It's a thing of beauty to take "back porch" music and deliver it to that amount of space and retain the intimacy. Obligatory X32 content: we used my X32 for the 3rd stage FOH at this fest last year.

/ derailment
 
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S16 and phantom pops

Hi,

I have X32 and three S16 for a music school performance.

The two first S16´s have all the microphones and DI´s and the third S16 has 14 ch wireless only.

During this performance I need to switch between the second and the third S16 several times

Since the second S16 has a nice mix of dynamics, condensers and active DI´s the
scene changes and switching between the second and the third S16 creates some nice phantom “pops”

Q1: Is there a way to do the switching between the S16´s without assigning all condensers **and DI´s to a mute group?

Q2: By using an externel phantom power supply, will I avoid these nasty sounds?
( I don´t have one so I can´t try)
 
Re: S16 and phantom pops

Timmy Liland said:
Hi,

I have X32 and three S16 for a music school performance.

The two first S16´s have all the microphones and DI´s and the third S16 has 14 ch wireless only.

During this performance I need to switch between the second and the third S16 several times

Since the second S16 has a nice mix of dynamics, condensers and active DI´s the
scene changes and switching between the second and the third S16 creates some nice phantom “pops”

Q1: Is there a way to do the switching between the S16´s without assigning all condensers **and DI´s to a mute group?

Q2: By using an externel phantom power supply, will I avoid these nasty sounds?
( I don´t have one so I can´t try)
Click to expand...

I don't get why you're getting pops from phantom power. The mics are still connected to the S16 and shouldn't be losing phantom. What's being switched is the digital output of the S16, not the inputs to the phantom-powered XLR's.

Or at least that's how it should work.

What firmware are you using?

EDIT: Disregard that tiny type above; I was completely wrong. It's funny how my natural expectations of how this console works are so often the opposite of what actually happens.

I set up 3 S16's just as you described and ran 4 phantom powered mics into each of the last two (Channels 17-32) and switched input sources back and forth between them.

Sure enough, phantom disappears on the previous S16 and appears on the current S16. There is indeed a pop happening, and I think it's happening as the new S16 powers up rather than from the old one powering down. The pop varies in intensity depending on how long it is between switchings. Sometimes it was big, sometimes not so big, but always audible.

Regardless, there is a thing happening there that is solvable, but you will need to change your behavior a little bit.

Clearly you cannot make a seamless transition from one S16 to another with all channels live when using anything phantom powered. You do need to mute the channels in some way, and the two ways are mute group or individual channel mutes if you are using any outputs that are not post fader sends, with DCA mutes as an additional option if you use only post fader outputs. (DCA mutes don't mute pre-fader outputs.)

I didn't try it without anything phantom powered.

It is probably not a reasonable expectation to be able to switch back and forth between input sources with live channels, anyway. I bet if the phantom power stayed on on the unused S16, you might not hear a noise. And your idea about using an outboard phantom supply might be on the right track, too, and will be implemented before the S16 behavior changes. I don't have one, either, but if you can switch back and forth between non-phantomed sources and not get a pop, those mics and DI's on a supply shouldn't behave any differently. Maybe I'm wrong again, though.

Learn something new about this console nearly every day.
 
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Re: S16 and phantom pops

Thank for your testing, Dan.

It somehow confirmed my suspicions.

During the rehearsals switching from wireless to band I also discovered that if I pressed next scene -> pressed un-mute very quickly I would still have the pop.
I think I was too quick for the electronics. (I had to be ahead of the drummer counting up. He followed the cues very closely)
How long is the switching time between scenes?

If this can´t be solved I have three options:
-Buy more quality dynamic mics and passive DI´s
-By multichannel phantom psu
-Use a sub mixer where each input has its own dedicated output. (If the external phantom psu theory is valid)

I am still on 1.5 and I still love this console.
 
Re: S16 and phantom pops

It would be sweet if someone from Beringher would implement a quick automatic mute, and then unmute of the channel when the phantom is turned on... Seems like that may be an easy firmware patch to implement, eh?
 
Re: S16 and phantom pops

Timmy Liland said:
Hi,

I have X32 and three S16 for a music school performance.

The two first S16´s have all the microphones and DI´s and the third S16 has 14 ch wireless only.

During this performance I need to switch between the second and the third S16 several times

Since the second S16 has a nice mix of dynamics, condensers and active DI´s the
scene changes and switching between the second and the third S16 creates some nice phantom “pops”

Q1: Is there a way to do the switching between the S16´s without assigning all condensers **and DI´s to a mute group?

Q2: By using an externel phantom power supply, will I avoid these nasty sounds?
( I don´t have one so I can´t try)
Click to expand...

Hi Timmy,

try this: On your X32 -->"Setup"-->"Preamps" tab--> than activate the +48 of ALL condensor mics that will be used, even those that are not connected in that specific scene.
Do this for all scenes and you should be go to go.
Christian
 
Re: S16 and phantom pops

Timmy Liland said:
...
Since the second S16 has a nice mix of dynamics, condensers and active DI´s the
scene changes and switching between the second and the third S16 creates some nice phantom “pops”
...
Click to expand...

Dear Timmy and Dan,

Switching phantom power on/off on any number of active channels might introduce pops depending on the sources connected. What you should do is keeping the phantom power setup consistent in both scenes and only swap the input patching.

Please note, phantom power is a preamp property, not a channel property. Consequently, switching the channel patching by loading a scene does not alter the preamp's status. So, provided that both of your scenes have consistent phantom power settings, no pops will disturb your switching. That is why Christian recommended using the Setup/preamps page, for seeing all preamps in an overview--no matter, if they are connected to channels or not.

Cheers,
Jan
 
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