X32 Discussion

Re: X32 Discussion

Found a bug in X32-Edit?

I installed Firmware 2.06 on my X32 yesterday, and X32-Edit PC 2.2 on my laptop. My typical configuration includes a 19" monitor plugged into the laptop on which I run two instances of X32-Edit, both showing meters, one for channels, and one for mix busses. Incredibly handy, and has worked well in the past (aside from the problems with dropped communications to X32).

New problem showed up yesterday. The instance running channels would freeze, but the problem didn't seem to be dropped communications like before. Switching to a different set of meters would immediately restore operation, and switching back to channels would then work fine for a while (1-2 minutes). As a test, I stopped the instance running busses, and then channels continued to work. I stuck with a single instance from that point on, doing no further trouble-shooting. Is anyone else running multiple instances of X32-Edit for metering? If so, have you seen any freezing problems.

At one point I switched to the RTA display in meters in one of the two instances of X32-Edit running, and I believe that also froze fairly quickly, but switching to a different tab restored operation instantly.
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Doug Lippincott said:
Found a bug in X32-Edit?

I installed Firmware 2.06 on my X32 yesterday, and X32-Edit PC 2.2 on my laptop. My typical configuration includes a 19" monitor plugged into the laptop on which I run two instances of X32-Edit, both showing meters, one for channels, and one for mix busses. Incredibly handy, and has worked well in the past (aside from the problems with dropped communications to X32).

New problem showed up yesterday. The instance running channels would freeze, but the problem didn't seem to be dropped communications like before. Switching to a different set of meters would immediately restore operation, and switching back to channels would then work fine for a while (1-2 minutes). As a test, I stopped the instance running busses, and then channels continued to work. I stuck with a single instance from that point on, doing no further trouble-shooting. Is anyone else running multiple instances of X32-Edit for metering? If so, have you seen any freezing problems.

At one point I switched to the RTA display in meters in one of the two instances of X32-Edit running, and I believe that also froze fairly quickly, but switching to a different tab restored operation instantly.
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This has been reported to the behringer dev people so hopfully they can find the bug...
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Timo Ulkuniemi said:
Hello

I beg to disagree.

There are sooo many non-musical side-thingies going on in music business, that all this really IS a game.
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You miss the point. Try to rent out X32 and pay workers at your company with the profit! Its a very great desk and it sound good enough. But it is not pro audio and destroys the rental industries.
My company is not game. If your company is you are lucky.
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Dirk Martens said:
You miss the point. Try to rent out X32 and pay workers at your company with the profit! Its a very great desk and it sound good enough. But it is not pro audio and destroys the rental industries.
My company is not game. If your company is you are lucky.
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It sounds (and works) better than several "pro audio" desks...I can speak to a few..but there are MANY reports out there besides mine that reflect that...if the x32 is destroying the rental market...it's time for the so called Pros to up their "game" both in sound quality and price. It seems the word Pro Audio has essentially come to mean high priced audio, not just high quality audio. I'm also not terribly heartbroken that you can't charge me more money for my next rental.:twisted:
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Dirk Martens said:
You miss the point. Try to rent out X32 and pay workers at your company with the profit! Its a very great desk and it sound good enough. But it is not pro audio and destroys the rental industries.
My company is not game. If your company is you are lucky.
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What you are describing is progress. Ever since Gutenberg printed his first bible, the availability of new products that combine innovation and lower price points has always impacted parts of established industries in a negative manner. If the existence of the X32 impacts you positively or negatively utterly depends why you are here.
If you are a capitalist looking to make money from your investments, then negatively if you haven't been smart and foreseeing with your investments.
If you are here to provide audio as a service to culture, then the X32 is a positive contribution.
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Hello

I went to Pori Jazz last thursday to see Bob Dylan. Before him they had Suzanne Vega on next stage. Both stages had D&B line arrays and who knows what. Anyways it looked posh and expensive. I went front center to see good. Not first row, but some 8 meters back, but quickly moved further back, while there was no way of hearing vocals from thundering low end. Things did not improve so I moved 5 meters sideways - now I could hear the vocals, too.

So despite the million dollar setup things were not working out right - someone must have screwed out a bit.

On next stage where Dylan was, everything was fine from very beginning to end.

Talking about Dylan- does anyone know, why he had four vocal microphones. He only sang on one. Looks, perhaps?
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Per Søvik said:
If you are a capitalist looking to make money from your investments, then negatively if you haven't been smart and foreseeing with your investments.
If you are here to provide audio as a service to culture, then the X32 is a positive contribution.
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My crew provide service to culture and still need to eat and pay rent. 2 regular Pro2 customers now puchase x32 because of marketing. that means these two bands ( Coverband 100 gig a year) now will receive 1 crew engineer less. it means 2 engineers have no more job.
I sell Pro2 because no more customer. maybe buy lights.
You are lucky that you do this as hobby, I have to pay crew, warehouse, truck, office, taxes, bank. I can not afford equipment that does not earn money. I am happy you can!
 
Re: X32 Discussion

If my band would play, lets say, 15 bigger jobs a year i would rent equipment for those events. I fi need it 100 times or more I seriously think about buying the equpment because my band have no money to waste. If I buy equipment, I would start to think about what would be the best gear for the price which fulfill my needs. Eight years ago this was probably a LS9 for ~10k. Nowadays there are much more mixers below 5k available. And dont forget the band members and their families also like to eat on regular base;-)
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Klaus Mock said:
If my band would play, lets say, 15 bigger jobs a year i would rent equipment for those events. I fi need it 100 times or more I seriously think about buying the equpment because my band have no money to waste. If I buy equipment, I would start to think about what would be the best gear for the price which fulfill my needs. Eight years ago this was probably a LS9 for ~10k. Nowadays there are much more mixers below 5k available. And dont forget the band members and their families also like to eat on regular base;-)
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PROAUDIO is not just equipment. Its crew, service, insurance and be flexibel. We give our Bands the people, the trucks the equipment and the service.
We get paid for that. When our bands have big show we send more stuff, when they have small show we send less stuff. When desk is broken we send new desk. We transport instruments and we mix the show for monitors and foh and do lighting.
This service cost money.
Yes you can buy own equipment. But then you do all work. If that is ok with you then all good. You want to employ crew and be responsible, great.
Our company is professional and we have to make money for service we do. We know bands come back when x32 is broken and they tired of loading trucks.
I buy desks, speakers that make money. x32 is too cheap.1% rental a day does not pay flightcase and person to check if desk is ok after job.
 
Re: X32 Discussion

The service you provide is fantastic, the fact that your service exists is fantastic. I think there is something seriously wrong with your business model though. Why should a cheaper price of a desk impact the price of your services? I'm sure you and your crew are very professional and great at your job. You are less great at YOUR job with an X32? Makes little sense to me. You should be charging an amount that is profitable for you to show up. That would be the minimum period. You choose what to bring. Pro2, fine, if a client wants an X32, fine but your service price is the same-the price at which you make a profit. Great products that cost less equals less profit to you makes absolutely no sense to me. Should be the other way around.
 
Re: X32 Discussion

cary begans said:
The service you provide is fantastic, the fact that your service exists is fantastic. I think there is something seriously wrong with your business model though. Why should a cheaper price of a desk impact the price of your services? I'm sure you and your crew are very professional and great at your job. You are less great at YOUR job with an X32? Makes little sense to me. You should be charging an amount that is profitable for you to show up. That would be the minimum period. You choose what to bring. Pro2, fine, if a client wants an X32, fine but your service price is the same-the price at which you make a profit. Great products that cost less equals less profit to you makes absolutely no sense to me. Should be the other way around.
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Something doesn't add up here, our X32 paid for itself within a year of having it just in dry rentals. Never mind the cost savings associated with not prepping, loading, transporting and patching an analog console and associated gear.

Someone needs to stop blaming Music Group for a bad business plan.


Sent from my iPhone
 
Re: X32 Discussion

cary begans said:
The service you provide is fantastic, the fact that your service exists is fantastic. I think there is something seriously wrong with your business model though. Why should a cheaper price of a desk impact the price of your services? I'm sure you and your crew are very professional and great at your job. You are less great at YOUR job with an X32? Makes little sense to me. You should be charging an amount that is profitable for you to show up. That would be the minimum period. You choose what to bring. Pro2, fine, if a client wants an X32, fine but your service price is the same-the price at which you make a profit. Great products that cost less equals less profit to you makes absolutely no sense to me. Should be the other way around.
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No I actually think that X32 is a good desk. But if everyone buys X32 I can not rent one out. That means I loose profit. This I have to make by other ways. Lights, crew, trucks or whatever. For a x32 to work in rental I would have charge more percent. If I have 0.5% margin per day on Pro6 I make more money then 0.5% margin on X32. rental price in germany is 1.5% of buy price per day. 1% for payback 0.5% for work and case and service of product. on x32 0.5% is too small money.
this has nothing to do with not possible to work with. Show can sound great with x32. but its not business for pro audio.
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Dirk Martens said:
No I actually think that X32 is a good desk. But if everyone buys X32 I can not rent one out. That means I loose profit. This I have to make by other ways. Lights, crew, trucks or whatever. For a x32 to work in rental I would have charge more percent. If I have 0.5% margin per day on Pro6 I make more money then 0.5% margin on X32. rental price in germany is 1.5% of buy price per day. 1% for payback 0.5% for work and case and service of product. on x32 0.5% is too small money.
this has nothing to do with not possible to work with. Show can sound great with x32. but its not business for pro audio.
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That 0.5% doesn't scale for cheap products, as you already know. The cost of service and work is almost the same for cheap products and expensive products and should be charged accordingly. Not based upon the purchase cost of a tool, but the cost to maintain it.
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Robert Lofgren said:
That 0.5% doesn't scale for cheap products, as you already know. The cost of service and work is almost the same for cheap products and expensive products and should be charged accordingly. Not based upon the purchase cost of a tool, but the cost to maintain it.
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that is right Robert, for us the rental price on X32 then getting to high for customers. They will then buy it. The big mixers we have are doing very good with this calculation.
 
Re: X32 Discussion

2 points, first is wireless- I do not trust it for streaming live video or audio on a wifi network. But it is getting better and new ideas will make it better. You people who complain use wireless mics, right?

second is rentals - yes the price point will take a bite out of rentals, but most bands in my area rent more that just consoles. Any package system rental would be more attractive with all new digital consoles that will cost less for you to provide.

Time is change and it is no different in this business. Ask all the rental companies how hard it is to rent a PM 5000 after the digital consoles came out. Do you use LP's, CD's for background music or a MP3 player?
 
Re: X32 Discussion

This debate is at least more laudable than one I had last month over the issue of sound quality (ie, the X32 and other ~$3K desks just sound "like crap"). The debate centered around the need for 100K consoles in order to achieve good sound quality... which I don't buy into.

A mixer is a tool and nothing more. Most of us buy tools at home to do things we don't want to pay anyone else for because we feel we can do an adequate job ourselves if we have the tools to do the job.

In music, a good example is recording. 20 years ago, if you wanted a decent recording, you had to pay someone with a studio and very expensive gear to make it for you. Today, anyone with a digital mixer, or someone with an analog mixer and a decent PC recorder and Reaper software can make a very decent sounding recording.

There are lots fewer recording studios today because of this; however, there are lots more good recordings done with very inexpensive tools by hobbyist (who can now afford a pretty decent recording setup).

The real top end recording studios are still a must for serious recordings, there is just not as many of them as there were the mom and pop recording studios of the past.

This is an extreme example. Pro sound reinforcement isn't just about mixers (as pointed out). It is about speakers, setup, microphones, power management, lighting, etc, etc, etc and everything else that goes into a music production.

The X32 is not alone in this market either. The Expression Si, and Qu mixers also are quite capable of performing these tasks (although I still prefer the X32 myself).

I don't think Behringer is going to find a way to make an entire sound and light system materialize onto stage perfectly setup any time soon. There is still a need for good sound companies and the goods and services they provide.

If your business was based on renting a high dollar mixer to bands doing small clubs or events, then the X32 will indeed be a threat. These bands can now easily handle these events themselves if they purchase an X32. I tend to believe that good sound companies provide more than mixers.
 
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