Re: X32 Discussion
Per: I have seen nearly no "I like the current implementation" noise; what's your source?
Per: I have seen nearly no "I like the current implementation" noise; what's your source?
X32 Discussion
- Thread starter Rob Spence
- Start date
Re: X32 Discussion
To me - It is in a group or it is not. The console that work the way you describe have a hard mute in series with the group, that is why it stays muted when the group clears.
To me - It is in a group or it is not. The console that work the way you describe have a hard mute in series with the group, that is why it stays muted when the group clears.
Re: X32 Discussion
Well, for me the issue is this:
What the x32 is emulating is the behaviour of an analog console, with hard-latching switches, both on the channel mutes, and on the group mute assign and group mute buttons.
The nature of that is that the group mute button is independent of the channel mutes on the channels in its group: if you unmute a group, but you have manually channel muted one channel that's also assigned to that group, that one channel *still* will not contribute. And that's the behaviour people are expecting.
Since I haven't seen any analog consoles with group muting that do *not* work that way -- though admittedly I haven't seen all that many -- I assume that they all do, and while I'm happy that there is some subset of users who find the current behaviour useful, I'm relatively certain that the subset of users who find it useless, but would find the traditional group behaviour useful, is substantially larger.
Well, for me the issue is this:
What the x32 is emulating is the behaviour of an analog console, with hard-latching switches, both on the channel mutes, and on the group mute assign and group mute buttons.
The nature of that is that the group mute button is independent of the channel mutes on the channels in its group: if you unmute a group, but you have manually channel muted one channel that's also assigned to that group, that one channel *still* will not contribute. And that's the behaviour people are expecting.
Since I haven't seen any analog consoles with group muting that do *not* work that way -- though admittedly I haven't seen all that many -- I assume that they all do, and while I'm happy that there is some subset of users who find the current behaviour useful, I'm relatively certain that the subset of users who find it useless, but would find the traditional group behaviour useful, is substantially larger.
Re: X32 Discussion
I'm a little confused by your comments Jay. What you say the X32 is doing is incorrect. It does not work the way you describe.
What I (and many others) have asked for is for it to work they way you describe an analog board functions.
I'm a little confused by your comments Jay. What you say the X32 is doing is incorrect. It does not work the way you describe.
What I (and many others) have asked for is for it to work they way you describe an analog board functions.
Re: X32 Discussion
I didn't quite actually say how the x32 does it; I merely alluded.
What it does is that each channel only has one 'Muted' control, and even if that is set by the channel mute button, it can be reset by unmuting a group mute which also includes the channel. What it *needs* to have as -- I think it was Tim -- suggested above, is a channel mute, and a group mute, as independent control plane signals, which are OR'd at the channel strip.
Optimally it would be nice if the mute button reflected the presence of each type separately (Red: channel mute only; Green: group mute only; Yellow: both sources muting the channel just now), but I don't know that the Mute button LEDs are multi-color.
I didn't quite actually say how the x32 does it; I merely alluded.
What it does is that each channel only has one 'Muted' control, and even if that is set by the channel mute button, it can be reset by unmuting a group mute which also includes the channel. What it *needs* to have as -- I think it was Tim -- suggested above, is a channel mute, and a group mute, as independent control plane signals, which are OR'd at the channel strip.
Optimally it would be nice if the mute button reflected the presence of each type separately (Red: channel mute only; Green: group mute only; Yellow: both sources muting the channel just now), but I don't know that the Mute button LEDs are multi-color.
Re: X32 Discussion
What I want is the X32 to work the way Yamaha and Avid do: If I manually mute anything that is part of a mute group, releasing (Unmuting) the group should leave the manually muted channel alone, i.e. it should remain muted.
Example: Bass player on BGV that sings only a couple of songs. I mute his/her input manually, but as a vocal it's part of the VOX MUTE GROUP. So I engage the VOX MUTE GROUP during the drum solo; when I release the VOX MUTE GROUP I want the bass player's mic to remain muted. My manual action should override the GROUP action. As it is now, in this situation the bass player's mic will unmute when I release the group, even though I'd previously, manually muted it.
What I want is the X32 to work the way Yamaha and Avid do: If I manually mute anything that is part of a mute group, releasing (Unmuting) the group should leave the manually muted channel alone, i.e. it should remain muted.
Example: Bass player on BGV that sings only a couple of songs. I mute his/her input manually, but as a vocal it's part of the VOX MUTE GROUP. So I engage the VOX MUTE GROUP during the drum solo; when I release the VOX MUTE GROUP I want the bass player's mic to remain muted. My manual action should override the GROUP action. As it is now, in this situation the bass player's mic will unmute when I release the group, even though I'd previously, manually muted it.
Re: X32 Discussion
Yup: we are in violent agreement.
Just as important, unmuting a channel that's in a group mute should *also* leave it muted.
Yup: we are in violent agreement.
Just as important, unmuting a channel that's in a group mute should *also* leave it muted.
Re: X32 Discussion
Actually, that I disagree with. If a channel is in a mute group, there could be valid reasons to selectively un-mute channels on the fly. I there was a setting that let you flip flop that behavior, that would be nice. Make that behavior adjusted on a per group basis even.
For the group un-muting, it would be nice if a regular press of the group un-mute would respect channels that were manually muted prior to the group mute, but pressing and holding the group un-mute for 2 seconds would then force un-mute everything in that group.
Yup: we are in violent agreement.
Just as important, unmuting a channel that's in a group mute should *also* leave it muted.
Actually, that I disagree with. If a channel is in a mute group, there could be valid reasons to selectively un-mute channels on the fly. I there was a setting that let you flip flop that behavior, that would be nice. Make that behavior adjusted on a per group basis even.
For the group un-muting, it would be nice if a regular press of the group un-mute would respect channels that were manually muted prior to the group mute, but pressing and holding the group un-mute for 2 seconds would then force un-mute everything in that group.
Re: X32 Discussion
I think that's a reasonable proposed implementation, yes. I can't think of any use cases for the sort of amusing that people want that are broken by that.
On a topic closely related to that, I wish that's the way talk back worked: instead of having to select latching, I'd like to see it work the way RTS intercom panels work: if you hold the button its momentary if you tap it, it latches.
Well, 'closely related' in that they both apply to special ways of pressing a button.
I think that's a reasonable proposed implementation, yes. I can't think of any use cases for the sort of amusing that people want that are broken by that.
On a topic closely related to that, I wish that's the way talk back worked: instead of having to select latching, I'd like to see it work the way RTS intercom panels work: if you hold the button its momentary if you tap it, it latches.
Well, 'closely related' in that they both apply to special ways of pressing a button.
Re: X32 Discussion
I expressed myself poorly; in the context of the "hard" channel mute option, I believe most of us still want the channel unmute to override any group mute.
I expressed myself poorly; in the context of the "hard" channel mute option, I believe most of us still want the channel unmute to override any group mute.
Re: X32 Discussion
The poll that maybe finally convinced the Behringer developers to implement the hard mute now.
http://forum.behringer.com/showthread.php?5143-Hard-or-soft-mute
The poll that maybe finally convinced the Behringer developers to implement the hard mute now.
http://forum.behringer.com/showthread.php?5143-Hard-or-soft-mute
Re: X32 Discussion
Why would you want that except for the fact that it is the way it works on analog consoles?
I can see situations where it might be useful, but not nearly as useful as being able to unmute a channel regardless of the group status.
Anyway, we have had this discussion for a couple of years, and finally we have some change. We'll se what the implementation is, and who is happy and who is not.
Yup: we are in violent agreement.
Just as important, unmuting a channel that's in a group mute should *also* leave it muted.
Why would you want that except for the fact that it is the way it works on analog consoles?
I can see situations where it might be useful, but not nearly as useful as being able to unmute a channel regardless of the group status.
Anyway, we have had this discussion for a couple of years, and finally we have some change. We'll se what the implementation is, and who is happy and who is not.
X32 pink noise generator quality
Whereas i agree that not all pink noise generator are created equal I want to assure X32 users that the generator in the X32 is very good. I am attaching graphics that compare the X32 generator to the generator hosted within SMAART. These traces are shown with banding (resolution) of 48th octave and taken with three second averaging. The traces are offset to allow for easy comparison.
In addition I am including a transfer function graphic comparing the output of the X32 generator to the GTC NP-1 Noise Plug generator. These were referenced against the SMAART generator. The black trace is the X32 and the red trace the NP-1.
I think it can be said that the generator in the X32 is quite high quality.
Whereas i agree that not all pink noise generator are created equal I want to assure X32 users that the generator in the X32 is very good. I am attaching graphics that compare the X32 generator to the generator hosted within SMAART. These traces are shown with banding (resolution) of 48th octave and taken with three second averaging. The traces are offset to allow for easy comparison.
In addition I am including a transfer function graphic comparing the output of the X32 generator to the GTC NP-1 Noise Plug generator. These were referenced against the SMAART generator. The black trace is the X32 and the red trace the NP-1.
I think it can be said that the generator in the X32 is quite high quality.
Re: X32 pink noise generator quality
That doesn’t match my results at all. I always check my input to output wiring before inserting the device under test and taking any measurements to make sure I will get an accurate result. Just look at the internal pink noise on the internal RTA and you will see that it isn’t flat. Unless I have only worked on a defective console. I will take another look at this if I ever get on an X32 again.
That doesn’t match my results at all. I always check my input to output wiring before inserting the device under test and taking any measurements to make sure I will get an accurate result. Just look at the internal pink noise on the internal RTA and you will see that it isn’t flat. Unless I have only worked on a defective console. I will take another look at this if I ever get on an X32 again.
Re: X32 MIDI capabilities
I'm trying to figure out just how much of the mixer can be controlled via MIDI. It seems that channel faders, mutes and scene change data is easy to do with a BCF2000. What about channel gain controls? Is metering data available on an external fader board?
Thanks,
btw I've been poking around at this thread (and the web in general) before posting this question. Wasn't there talk of some kind of wiki for the console at one point?
I'm trying to figure out just how much of the mixer can be controlled via MIDI. It seems that channel faders, mutes and scene change data is easy to do with a BCF2000. What about channel gain controls? Is metering data available on an external fader board?
Thanks,
btw I've been poking around at this thread (and the web in general) before posting this question. Wasn't there talk of some kind of wiki for the console at one point?
Re: X32 MIDI capabilities
Drew, the young guy that's working on the automixer for X32 and the guy that wrote the Android app both have accessed meter data but I don't know how they did it.
Maybe someone with a better recollection of the those discussions can help out...
Drew, the young guy that's working on the automixer for X32 and the guy that wrote the Android app both have accessed meter data but I don't know how they did it.
Maybe someone with a better recollection of the those discussions can help out...
Re: X32 MIDI capabilities
1) The basic controls that you've already found.
2) When x-edit is connected you can control the x32 using a mackie mcu compatible control. This might give you metering as well.
3) SysEx. This isn't documented yet, but is osc over sysex. One-way traffic only.
There are three ways of controlling the x32 via midi.
1) The basic controls that you've already found.
2) When x-edit is connected you can control the x32 using a mackie mcu compatible control. This might give you metering as well.
3) SysEx. This isn't documented yet, but is osc over sysex. One-way traffic only.
Re: X32 MIDI capabilities
Gain from a BCF2000 works too, and other stuff ( MC-C mode on display )
That's what I found so far :
http://www.redmountain.ch/BCF2000_Em..._modes-x32.jpg
Chime in if there is more ...
Be aware that if the BCF2000 is on the VCA layer, pushing the EQ ( store ) button on the BCF2000
will crash X32-Edit immediately
Best
Klaus
Gain from a BCF2000 works too, and other stuff ( MC-C mode on display )
That's what I found so far :
http://www.redmountain.ch/BCF2000_Em..._modes-x32.jpg
Chime in if there is more ...
Be aware that if the BCF2000 is on the VCA layer, pushing the EQ ( store ) button on the BCF2000
will crash X32-Edit immediately
Best
Klaus
Re: X32 MIDI capabilities
I have a BCF2000 and have played with it with the X32. Can you please explain what the MC_C mode is and how to set it up and how are you wiring it up? And what needs to be checked (set up) on the X32 to make this all work?
I just looked thru the user manual and I don’t see any mention of what MC_C is. I do see MMC Midi Machine Control but I don’t think that is what you are talking about.
I have a BCF2000 and have played with it with the X32. Can you please explain what the MC_C mode is and how to set it up and how are you wiring it up? And what needs to be checked (set up) on the X32 to make this all work?
I just looked thru the user manual and I don’t see any mention of what MC_C is. I do see MMC Midi Machine Control but I don’t think that is what you are talking about.