X32 Discussion

Re: X32 Discussion

Hello Jan, and thank you very much for the helpful reply. I appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions.
I have just one more question....

I plan on connecting some unbalanced line level sources to the mic inputs 1 - 16. Do I need to connect/tie the - minus/cold side of the balanced input to ground? or do I leave it floating and just connect the input device shield to ground.

Thanks!

Glenn



Jan Duwe said:
Dear glennfin,

The four internal stereo FX1-4 returns are always available, and stereo FX slots 5-8 are supposed to be inserted into channels or buses. This is completely independent from the physical aux connectors. The X32 Rack rear panel AUX IN/OUT connectors can serve multiple purposes, such as Direct Outs or Inserts in channels or buses, or as additional in/out. They are meant as auxiliary line-level in- and outputs, in addition to the fully equipped Midas mic preamps on inputs 1...16, and have nothing to do with FX sends or returns.
In your example, you may of course use say Aux Out #1 for sending out a bus signal or a direct out from an input channel and use that as a send to your Eventide effect, by adjusting the signal source on the Routing/Aux page for that connector. The return of the Eventide may be put on any sort of inputs you like, e.g. Aux In #1 (and #2 if it is stereo). This way your Aux 1-2 faders would be the FX Return faders for your Eventide. You may also run the Eventide return into a Mic/Line input 1-16, or feed its input from any one of the XLR Outputs 1-8 ... everything is configurable.

The general in/out Routing is (mostly) structured in blocks of 8 channels for quick and easy connection of external devices, such as networked stageboxes or interface card signals, to the X32 dsp processing. Once connected to the dsp, any signal can be used in any channel (see channel configuration Source) and there is no such block-wise restriction of patching signals to channels or outputs.

You may also consider downloading the free X32 EDIT application from our website, which allows you to familiarize yourself with the functionality.

Hope that helps.
Kind regards,
Jan
Click to expand...
 
Re: X32 Discussion

glennfin said:
Do I need to connect/tie the - minus/cold side of the balanced input to ground?
Click to expand...

That is the normal way. Connect pen 3 to pen 1 of the XLR. Pen 2 is hot.

The main problem is that on mic inputs you can feed phantom power (48V) to connect condensor microphones. Not all sources can withstand that. So it's not advised to directly connect line levels into the X32 mic inputs. I see as the main problem that you can make a wrong setting on the X32 and phantom power can be engaged by coincidence.

I would advise some simple audio transformers on those inputs. As long as you don't need a very high input impedance, normal passive types can be used with good result, you don't need the "real" DI types for that. (I made some passive resistor network for myself, limiting the maximum phantom power to 12V, low enough to avoid my pro audio equipment to fail)

Your blocks of eight does come only into play when you connect AND USE a lot of external stageboxes, or slot inputs (ADAT, DANTE, USB/FW, etc.) at the same time.
I had once a setup with 48 inputs on stage (3x S16) some 6 channels at FOH, all via AES50/ ONE CAT cable and connected to 2x X32 console. With some clever patching I could have most inputs on both consoles. While also outputtingen 8 channels via AES50 from 1 console to be able to mix it on the 2nd X32. (LR, 2x sub group, 4x monitor feed)

You can easily use all connections on the X32 rack and add a S16 as well, having all inputs from all sources available to all available input channels. The maximum amount of input channels available at the same time is 38 + 2x USB

If you want to use virtual soundcheck, (inputs via USB/FW) you just have to make a scene for virtual soundcheck and one for live use. Quite simple.

I agree when new to the X32 the naming is a bit confusing, I don't know why they did call the jack in/outs aux, maybe because people are used to it from the analog time. You beter just see it as additional line level in and outputs on jack connectors. I think they should have named them jack... But who am I. :)~:-)~:smile:
 
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Re: X32 Discussion

Thanks for the reply Antoon. I'm pretty sure 48v phantom is off by default. I will make sure phantom power is off on all inputs before I connect any line level devices. I won't be using any microphones, only line level so I don't see any reason to use input transformers since I'm not going to have phantom power turned on at all.

Another solution since I'm using unbalanced sources would be to use a coupling capacitor in series with the hot lead... a .47uf 63v cap would do the trick and protect the connected device In case phantom power was engaged by accident.
 
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Re: X32 Discussion

glennfin said:
Another solution since I'm using unbalanced sources would be to use a coupling capacitor in series with the hot lead... a .47uf 63v cap would do the trick and protect the connected device In case phantom power was engaged by accident.
Click to expand...

It helps, I have done it in the past (bigger caps) but I have seen equipment dying by this. I would add an extra series resistor to limit the current, a extra resistor to ground will avoid that (piek/inrush) voltage can get to high. I made it myself to connect my X32 rack mic inputs to direct outputs of my EELA S130 mixer, this is for DJ use. (Mixer with P&G faders, VCA controlled, I need direct eq control for mixing... http://www.eela-audio.com/S130.html)

I think .47uF is with a -3dB of about 30Hz a bit to small. But higher values will give higher inrush values...
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Antoon van den Oetelaar said:
It helps, I have done it in the past (bigger caps) but I have seen equipment dying by this. I would add an extra series resistor to limit the current, a extra resistor to ground will avoid that (piek/inrush) voltage can get to high. I made it myself to connect my X32 rack mic inputs to direct outputs of my EELA S130 mixer, this is for DJ use. (Mixer with P&G faders, VCA controlled, I need direct eq control for mixing... http://www.eela-audio.com/S130.html)

I think .47uF is with a -3dB of about 30Hz a bit to small. But higher values will give higher inrush values...
Click to expand...


A Capacitor will only pass AC, in this application, as a coupling capacitor ("blocking capacitor"), There is no danger of the 48v DC damaging the output of a connected device as long as the voltage rating of the cap is high enough (63v is a common value). -3db roll off at 30hz is no big deal for the devices I have connected.
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Hi Jan;

Just so I understand, I can use all the 1/4" rear inputs IN ADDITION to all 16 XLR inputs? at the same time??

Thanks

Jan Duwe said:
Dear glennfin,

The four internal stereo FX1-4 returns are always available, and stereo FX slots 5-8 are supposed to be inserted into channels or buses. This is completely independent from the physical aux connectors. The X32 Rack rear panel AUX IN/OUT connectors can serve multiple purposes, such as Direct Outs or Inserts in channels or buses, or as additional in/out. They are meant as auxiliary line-level in- and outputs, in addition to the fully equipped Midas mic preamps on inputs 1...16, and have nothing to do with FX sends or returns.
In your example, you may of course use say Aux Out #1 for sending out a bus signal or a direct out from an input channel and use that as a send to your Eventide effect, by adjusting the signal source on the Routing/Aux page for that connector. The return of the Eventide may be put on any sort of inputs you like, e.g. Aux In #1 (and #2 if it is stereo). This way your Aux 1-2 faders would be the FX Return faders for your Eventide. You may also run the Eventide return into a Mic/Line input 1-16, or feed its input from any one of the XLR Outputs 1-8 ... everything is configurable.

The general in/out Routing is (mostly) structured in blocks of 8 channels for quick and easy connection of external devices, such as networked stageboxes or interface card signals, to the X32 dsp processing. Once connected to the dsp, any signal can be used in any channel (see channel configuration Source) and there is no such block-wise restriction of patching signals to channels or outputs.

You may also consider downloading the free X32 EDIT application from our website, which allows you to familiarize yourself with the functionality.

Hope that helps.
Kind regards,
Jan
Click to expand...
 
Re: X32 Discussion

glennfin said:
Hi Jan;

Just so I understand, I can use all the 1/4" rear inputs IN ADDITION to all 16 XLR inputs? at the same time??

Thanks
Click to expand...

Yes.

The 1/4" inputs are called "AUX" by Behringer, but they are always available. Note that the *AUX channel* (not the physical input) has no dynamics (gate, comp) and lacks insert points, input delay, etc. These can be overcome by selecting another input (for demonstration, let's say Ch 17), opening the Config tab, and using the Source block, select Aux 1. You have now assigned the Aux 1 physical connection to Channel 17 and have all the features of that channel available - dynamics, inserts, etc. You may or may not need them, but the flexibility is there to do so.
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Thanks for excellent helpful replies Brian and Tim. My X32 Rack is on the way, I should have it by the end of this week. In the mean time, I'm going to try and install the editor software and use it in offline mode.

Tim McCulloch said:
Yes.

The 1/4" inputs are called "AUX" by Behringer, but they are always available. Note that the *AUX channel* (not the physical input) has no dynamics (gate, comp) and lacks insert points, input delay, etc. These can be overcome by selecting another input (for demonstration, let's say Ch 17), opening the Config tab, and using the Source block, select Aux 1. You have now assigned the Aux 1 physical connection to Channel 17 and have all the features of that channel available - dynamics, inserts, etc. You may or may not need them, but the flexibility is there to do so.
Click to expand...
 
Re: X32 Discussion

glennfin said:
A Capacitor will only pass AC, in this application, as a coupling capacitor ("blocking capacitor"), There is no danger of the 48v DC damaging the output of a connected device as long as the voltage rating of the cap is high enough (63v is a common value). -3db roll off at 30hz is no big deal for the devices I have connected.
Click to expand...

I give up. At least it wouldn't harm your X32...
 
Re: X32 Discussion

John Chiara said:
Hmm....2 X32's and at least 5racks in service and not one problem. What exactly are 'all its reliability problems?'
Click to expand...
Well in the early days there were issues. And I guess we were unlucky and our X32 self-destructed, so you can't blame the boss for being nervous. But it has turned out well, we are getting a full refund at the price we paid for it, and I'm looking forward to getting our new shiny M-32 next week.:D~:-D~:grin:
Mick Berg
 
Re: X32 Discussion

glennfin said:
A Capacitor will only pass AC, in this application, as a coupling capacitor ("blocking capacitor"), There is no danger of the 48v DC damaging the output of a connected device as long as the voltage rating of the cap is high enough (63v is a common value). -3db roll off at 30hz is no big deal for the devices I have connected.
Click to expand...
When that capacitor is initially discharged and you hit it with 48v an initial spike of charging power will be created. If the capacitor is large enough the inrush current may kill your connected gear if you are unlucky.
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Hi Guys. Hope everyone is doing well. I am Alfred and our church bought x32 once it was first introduce in our region. Great mixer and we also bought S16 after couple months. Within this period we came across with funny situation and I had been trying to solve within my basic knowledge but it is keep repeating. I really hope someone here can help me and pardon my English if it is weak. Sorry to slot into this thread and if necessary to create a new one, please do let me know.

1)S16 sometimes not sync to X32. The LED red lead on the S16 will blink but after switch on and off then back to normal. I am worrying that not as user friendly to new sound crew.

2)Loud 'bang' from the monitors (buses send) but not FOH. It had been this way pass 2 years. Loud, means loud enough to scare the musician leaving the stage. Now we had tried to connect the P16 and this is rise another concern. Surely will be hazardous since they begin to like using headphone and the 'bang' signal will flow through it. It may come again, and may came few times a week, or after months. Even no one on the stage. Sometimes after switch on everything immediately. Sometimes after 1/2 hours. Sometimes after 2 hours services.

3)Low signal from P16. We just start connecting it last week. All things work great when connected the P16 direct to X32 but low signal once plug into S16. Is there anything I had missed out in the routing?

I totally don't mind to change all cable if required to solve this issue to move forward for issue No.2 . It had definitely demotivated us when trying, and suspecting from amps to even instruments for the pass 2 years yet not able to solve. Please, please help. SOS>

Best regards,

Alfred
 
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Re: X32 Discussion

Yup, you are correct and I stand corrected... just tried it with a .47uf cap connected in series with my scope on one side and a 48v power supply on the other side.
On power-up, the cap on the scope side charges up to 48v then slowly discharges..... Live and learn... ugh!... I'll just have to be careful and not engage the phantom power on any of the inputs.........

(edit)

A simple 10k resistor to ground on the connected equipment side of the capacitor solved the issue. The turn on voltage spike is less than 2 volts with 48v applied to the other side of the cap. Line level connected equipment driving a 10k ohm load shouldn't present any problems.

Although it would void the warranty, assuming the 48v is provided from a single source, a simpler solution would be to find the 48v source on the board and use a switch to disable it to all inputs. This would work for me because I'm using the X32 only as a line mixer.



Robert Lofgren said:
When that capacitor is initially discharged and you hit it with 48v an initial spike of charging power will be created. If the capacitor is large enough the inrush current may kill your connected gear if you are unlucky.
Click to expand...
 
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Re: X32 Discussion

Alfred Wan said:
Hi Guys. Hope everyone is doing well. I am Alfred and our church bought x32 once it was first introduce in our region. Great mixer and we also bought S16 after couple months. Within this period we came across with funny situation and I had been trying to solve within my basic knowledge but it is keep repeating. I really hope someone here can help me and pardon my English if it is weak. Sorry to slot into this thread and if necessary to create a new one, please do let me know.

1)S16 sometimes not sync to X32. The LED red lead on the S16 will blink but after switch on and off then back to normal. I am worrying that not as user friendly to new sound crew.

2)Loud 'bang' from the monitors (buses send) but not FOH. It had been this way pass 2 years. Loud, means loud enough to scare the musician leaving the stage. Now we had tried to connect the P16 and this is rise another concern. Surely will be hazardous since they begin to like using headphone and the 'bang' signal will flow through it. It may come again, and may came few times a week, or after months. Even no one on the stage. Sometimes after switch on everything immediately. Sometimes after 1/2 hours. Sometimes after 2 hours services.

3)Low signal from P16. We just start connecting it last week. All things work great when connected the P16 direct to X32 but low signal once plug into S16. Is there anything I had missed out in the routing?

I totally don't mind to change all cable if required to solve this issue to move forward for issue No.2 . It had definitely demotivated us when trying, and suspecting from amps to even instruments for the pass 2 years yet not able to solve. Please, please help. SOS>

Best regards,

Alfred
Click to expand...


Dear Alfred

We would love to help resolve your issues.

Would you be able to contact our technical support team to discuss the problem in more detail?

You can reach us at [email protected] or on +1-702-800-8290 (US) or +44 1562 732290 (UK)

Thank you for your on-going support and use of our brands.
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Wow..... I've been studying xedit offline and I'm getting some of it... still a long way to go. It's not like I don't have any digital mixer experience... my previous live rig mixer was a Yamaha 01v96 and I have a pair of Yamaha 02R96's in my studio... still, the X32 rack is confusing at the moment. I want to use the mix buses as master levels for some of the aux sends but I've yet to understand how to route mix busses to the physical aux outputs and I don't know what the "Matrix" is...
I'm working on it... I'm sure there will be many "ah-ha!" moments soon. (grin)


Tim McCulloch said:
Yes.

The 1/4" inputs are called "AUX" by Behringer, but they are always available. Note that the *AUX channel* (not the physical input) has no dynamics (gate, comp) and lacks insert points, input delay, etc. These can be overcome by selecting another input (for demonstration, let's say Ch 17), opening the Config tab, and using the Source block, select Aux 1. You have now assigned the Aux 1 physical connection to Channel 17 and have all the features of that channel available - dynamics, inserts, etc. You may or may not need them, but the flexibility is there to do so.
Click to expand...
 
Re: X32 Discussion

glennfin said:
I've yet to understand how to route mix busses to the physical aux outputs
Click to expand...

Hi Glenn -- Think of it the other way around. Instead of routing mix buses to physical outputs, reverse it -- What audio stream should this output be sourced from? In the setup page, go to the Physical Outputs tab. Pick an output and assign an audio stream to it. If you want mix bux 7 going out physical output #10, start with Output #10, and then tell it to stream the signal from Mix bus 7. Does that make sense? Instead of sending a mix bus to an output, you start with the output and tell it where to source the audio.

and I don't know what the "Matrix" is...
Click to expand...

In the X32, the matrices are just another level of sends. Just like you can send send input channels to a mix bus, you can send mix buses to a matrix. They're mix buses for mix buses. (Yikes!)

-- Mitch
 
Re: X32 Discussion

glennfin said:
Wow..... I've been studying xedit offline and I'm getting some of it... still a long way to go. It's not like I don't have any digital mixer experience... my previous live rig mixer was a Yamaha 01v96 and I have a pair of Yamaha 02R96's in my studio... still, the X32 rack is confusing at the moment. I want to use the mix buses as master levels for some of the aux sends but I've yet to understand how to route mix busses to the physical aux outputs and I don't know what the "Matrix" is...
I'm working on it... I'm sure there will be many "ah-ha!" moments soon. (grin)
Click to expand...

First Mitch is wrong about where you assign virtual outputs to physical outputs - that is done on the Routing page, "out 1-16" tab. By default *Analog Output* (that's the box label) 01-14 are assigned to MIX BUS 01-14 (Analog Output 15 - 16 are assigned to L/R). You can also assign a MIX BUS output to a *physical* AUX OUTPUT. On the Routing page select the *aux out* tab. The *Aux Output* box selects the physical output and the *Output Signal* box lets you select what is assigned to the physical AUX OUTPUT.

Now about the Matrix.... think of it as a "mini mixer" within the console with a limited selection of input sources - in this case, virtual outputs from the mix buses along with L/R/Mono. Press the HOME button, select an output (bus 1, for example) and you'll see the Matrix Send box on the right. This should look familiar as it works like the BUS Sends on an input.... You use matrices to develop different mixes that need to go different places, often with different EQ settings. Note that OUTPUT delay (for various uses like delaying balcony fills that are physically disparate from the main speaker hang) is dialed up on the *out 1-16* tab on the Routing page - the delay is added right before the D/A conversion at the output (just like Yamaha does on the LS/9 and M7).

Hope this helps, Glenn.
 
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