X32 Discussion

Re: iPad app fix?

L
Patrick Karv said:
Hi John,

Not exactly sure what you mean by 'a bad occurrence' but please feel free to email us at [email protected] and we can take a look through what issues you are having and find a solution.

Patrick Karv
Specialist
Music Group
Click to expand...

It's just the issues with the update....meters not working correctly and glitchy operation. It's been spelled out here. Is there a new patch coming soon? I had a situation where I removed a channel from a DCA and caused a feedback loop and because of the hesitation in the app I couldn't get it to stay on a screen without delay...it used to be fine.
 
Re: Cable

Per Søvik said:
If it isn't possible to have continuity in the aes50 ground, you should try to have chassis to chassis ground as that will take care of build-up of static potential and ground potential differences.
Click to expand...
Hi Per,

Long time no talk. Glad to see we're both still kicking.

While chassis to chassis ground may be a nice thing ( FWIW, I still don't know what happens if the console and stage box power are on separate services with a significant ground potential difference, as in powered by services in different buildings and connected by FTP), the static potential that is the bothersome one is on people as compared to the devices and NOT what's on one device vs. the other. The devices are by definition and practice grounded, while the people float and can develop a significant charge that is discharged by touching the console, stage box, or microphone.

I can disrupt the sync when the stage box and console are two feet apart and their power cords are plugged into the same outlet but they are connected by UTP or FTP with no Ethercon. That is exactly what's shown in Brian Wynn's videos. FTP without Ethercons bonds the two devices together but still allows ESD to disrupt the sync, which disrupts the signal.

What's needed is total cable shield coverage AND continuity; continuity alone doesn't cut it.

Your other comment about fiber solving the problem is intriguing; if the snake is fiber, is it using AES50 anymore? AES50 is defined as using Ethernet cable, so I don't get it.

Another interesting aspect of this problem is that it only occurs when the stage box is used. As I type this I realize that I now have an S32 but haven't checked to see if it suffers the same problem as the S16. I'll try to do that in the next few days. It would be interesting if they solved it with the newer box, and I'll have my hopes up.

I also don't know if there is an ESD problem when the inputs are sourced from AES50 but there is no snake or stage box connected. One wouldn't use it that way, but I guess that would be one more data point.

Lastly, while we're talking, I thought of you the other day when I had a possible problem that a weird patching trick (that I think you mentioned some time ago) might have solved.

Did you post a signal diagram that somehow had a console connected to the B connector of an S-16 chain (two S-16's, first one A to a different console (Console ONE), S16B to A input of second S-16, second S-16B to second console).

Was the second console acting like a third S-16 and so providing more inputs to Console ONE? Or was there some other reason? Or did I imagine that?

As it was, I figured out another solution to solve the immediate problem, and learned today that the problem disappeared completely without the need for a solution.

Thanks,
Dan
 
Re: iPad app fix?

John Chiara said:
L

It's just the issues with the update....meters not working correctly and glitchy operation. It's been spelled out here. Is there a new patch coming soon? I had a situation where I removed a channel from a DCA and caused a feedback loop and because of the hesitation in the app I couldn't get it to stay on a screen without delay...it used to be fine.
Click to expand...


Hi John,

I have notified the development team who will look into any potential issues and if any bug fixes are required they would be done for the next version release. Unfortunately I do not have a specific date for release at this time.
 
Re: iPad app fix?

John Chiara said:
L

It's just the issues with the update....meters not working correctly and glitchy operation. It's been spelled out here. Is there a new patch coming soon? I had a situation where I removed a channel from a DCA and caused a feedback loop and because of the hesitation in the app I couldn't get it to stay on a screen without delay...it used to be fine.
Click to expand...

I made the mistake once of removing effects returns from a DCA (that was turned down) and suddenly having the effects come up full. I wanted to repurpose the DCA. Luckily I was on the full console and it was a rehearsal but it wasn’t quick to recover from that even on the full console. But I did learn a valuable lesson that day, don’t unassign something from a DCA till you know the implications.
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Hi everyone.

Just starting to use Tracktion with our X32 - been using X32 since it came out.

Is it possible, per channel or across the board, to take the X-UF ASIO inputs post-fader?

To answer the inevitable question, I'm recording our Panto (2 hour theatre for American readers who won't know what Panto is!) for 8 shows.

The only post-production I do is put it on DVD using the best recording of each bit of scene - I may want to mute extraneous audio, but not unmute missing audio.

Peter


Sent from my iPhone
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Peter Howarth said:
Hi everyone.

Just starting to use Tracktion with our X32 - been using X32 since it came out.

Is it possible, per channel or across the board, to take the X-UF ASIO inputs post-fader?

To answer the inevitable question, I'm recording our Panto (2 hour theatre for American readers who won't know what Panto is!) for 8 shows.

The only post-production I do is put it on DVD using the best recording of each bit of scene - I may want to mute extraneous audio, but not unmute missing audio.

Peter


Sent from my iPhone
Click to expand...

Are you talking Traction? I assume so, although not familiar with that program, the usual idea for any DAW is to get raw audio to the software, and manipulate it after the fact and mix it down to a stereo master later. You know, when that delay of the vocal doesn't quite sound so great next week, you are not stuck with it. If you want what the X32 can do for a mix, eq, fx, etc, play back and mix the raw recorded tracks of Traction to taste (card 1-32 for X32 home menu) mix it all to taste and just use the onboard usb recorder. It has the main L/R mix which is post every ch, everything you do and send to it, It makes remarkably decent stereo wave files easily. If you don't love it in a few days, just do it again. If you are trying to just not mix other than live, right there on the spot, just use the usb recorder anyway, skip the hassle, or do both.
 
Re: X32 Discussion

cary begans said:
Are you talking Traction? I assume so, although not familiar with that program, the usual idea for any DAW is to get raw audio to the software, and manipulate it after the fact and mix it down to a stereo master later. You know, when that delay of the vocal doesn't quite sound so great next week, you are not stuck with it. If you want what the X32 can do for a mix, eq, fx, etc, play back and mix the raw recorded tracks of Traction to taste (card 1-32 for X32 home menu) mix it all to taste and just use the onboard usb recorder. It has the main L/R mix which is post every ch, everything you do and send to it, It makes remarkably decent stereo wave files easily. If you don't love it in a few days, just do it again. If you are trying to just not mix other than live, right there on the spot, just use the usb recorder anyway, skip the hassle, or do both.
Click to expand...


And now to answer your question Peter... Use the p16 "pick point" to send to the card instead of local... It's post eq/effects
If you're still not sure, YouTube has always been a good resource for step by step setup, or explanations.
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Hi Guys!!

We had downloaded the x32 control into android phone and works well. We plan to do the same so musicians can control themselves. Have a question: Is it fine say they all control the same time to their dedicated bus?

Thanks.
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Peter Howarth said:
Hi everyone.

Just starting to use Tracktion with our X32 - been using X32 since it came out.

Is it possible, per channel or across the board, to take the X-UF ASIO inputs post-fader?

To answer the inevitable question, I'm recording our Panto (2 hour theatre for American readers who won't know what Panto is!) for 8 shows.

The only post-production I do is put it on DVD using the best recording of each bit of scene - I may want to mute extraneous audio, but not unmute missing audio.

Peter


Sent from my iPhone
Click to expand...

Hi Peter,

You can use either the OUT 1-16 bus to do this or the P16 OUT bus, or both to get 32 channels sent to the DAW with specific TAP points.

I wrote an article about this on our Knowledge-base, also a there is a video by our own John DiNicola covering the subject at the top of the article.

Hope it helps.

https://musicgroup-prod.mindtouch.us/04_BEHRINGER/How_do_I_record_X32_effects_into_my_DAW?
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Thanks Patrick.

Had a quick look at the desk before rehearsal tonight, and know where you're talking about, but didn't have time to play.

I'll review your guide and video before I go back.


Sent from my iPhone
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Dear Alfred,
X32-Q for iPhone/iPodTouch or X32-Q for Android are the specialized and recommended apps for personal monitoring.
And yes, the talents on stage can all control the mix for their own monitor bus independently and concurrently.
 
Re: Fader bank issue

Robert Wester said:
Last few times i used my X32 i experience some very strange and annoying issues. First fader bank (8 faders) are flipping and sometimes go to maximum volume. See the video www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlknoUmGI7Q. Have someone experience the same issues?
Click to expand...
Not yet.

Did anything happen if you whacked the console without the iPad sitting on the buttons?

Not sure why that would result in fader movement but it's the first thing I wondered.

What happens if you do it with the iPad switched off?

Edit: Sorry, Cary, I see you already asked that. Great minds, etc....
 
Re: Fader bank issue

Hello Cary and Dan,

It also happens without the iPad, or even disconnected X32 network cable. The iPad was intended to show the "software" fader positions, as it happens some time the faders are remaining at the normal position but in "software" they are max / +10dB. Looks like some loose connections. It is still in warranty, but i hope i can fix it by myself...
 
Re: Fader bank issue

Robert Wester said:
Last few times i used my X32 i experience some very strange and annoying issues. First fader bank (8 faders) are flipping and sometimes go to maximum volume. See the video www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlknoUmGI7Q. Have someone experience the same issues?
Click to expand...

Dear Robert


We would love to help resolve your issues.


Would you be able to contact our technical support team to discuss the problem in more detail?
You can reach us at [email protected] or on +1-702-800-8290 (US) or +44 1562 732290 (UK)


Thank you for your on-going support and use of our brands.
 
Re: Fader bank issue

Robert Wester said:
Hello Cary and Dan,

It also happens without the iPad, or even disconnected X32 network cable. The iPad was intended to show the "software" fader positions, as it happens some time the faders are remaining at the normal position but in "software" they are max / +10dB. Looks like some loose connections. It is still in warranty, but i hope i can fix it by myself...
Click to expand...
Keith's idea is the best.

Don't open it yourself as that will void your warranty if they find that you did it. Behringer has been super good about covering warranty issues and they will get you fixed if given the chance, I think.

Good luck!
 
Re: Cable

Dan Mortensen said:
While chassis to chassis ground may be a nice thing ( FWIW, I still don't know what happens if the console and stage box power are on separate services with a significant ground potential difference, as in powered by services in different buildings and connected by FTP), the static potential that is the bothersome one is on people as compared to the devices and NOT what's on one device vs. the other. The devices are by definition and practice grounded, while the people float and can develop a significant charge that is discharged by touching the console, stage box, or microphone.

I can disrupt the sync when the stage box and console are two feet apart and their power cords are plugged into the same outlet but they are connected by UTP or FTP with no Ethercon. That is exactly what's shown in Brian Wynn's videos. FTP without Ethercons bonds the two devices together but still allows ESD to disrupt the sync, which disrupts the signal.

What's needed is total cable shield coverage AND continuity; continuity alone doesn't cut it.
Click to expand...

Correct, the shield (if it's a good one) and ethercons provide a Farraday tube (if that's even a term) allowing a charge to travel along the outer perimeter, kept in place by the electrostatic forces. The ethercon plug will ensure that there is a continous tubular path.
By having a common grounded supply with a shorter path, one can in many cases discourage the static discharge from travelling down the path of the AES50, and at least completely prevent any build up in potential between the units, leaving only the discharge of a body as a potential problem. Of course, it is exactly the discharge of a body that tends to be the culprit, when someone grabs a microphone or steps up to the console, but lots of solid ground is still your friend.

Your other comment about fiber solving the problem is intriguing; if the snake is fiber, is it using AES50 anymore? AES50 is defined as using Ethernet cable, so I don't get it.
Click to expand...
AES50 over fibre is still AES50 as such, and is available on the bigger Midas desks as well as on a couple of the Klark bridges and extenders.
https://www.music-group.com/Categories/Klarkteknik/Mixers/Mixer-Accessories/DN9620/p/P0ASK

Another interesting aspect of this problem is that it only occurs when the stage box is used. As I type this I realize that I now have an S32 but haven't checked to see if it suffers the same problem as the S16. I'll try to do that in the next few days. It would be interesting if they solved it with the newer box, and I'll have my hopes up.
Click to expand...
I would imagine the problem is universal, the AES50 protocol and method of connection is the same.

I also don't know if there is an ESD problem when the inputs are sourced from AES50 but there is no snake or stage box connected. One wouldn't use it that way, but I guess that would be one more data point.
Click to expand...
I'd imagine it's hard to lose sync if you haven't got sync in the first place. I'd imagine it would be even harder to have static discharge down a non-existent cable.

Lastly, while we're talking, I thought of you the other day when I had a possible problem that a weird patching trick (that I think you mentioned some time ago) might have solved.

Did you post a signal diagram that somehow had a console connected to the B connector of an S-16 chain (two S-16's, first one A to a different console (Console ONE), S16B to A input of second S-16, second S-16B to second console).

Was the second console acting like a third S-16 and so providing more inputs to Console ONE? Or was there some other reason? Or did I imagine that?

As it was, I figured out another solution to solve the immediate problem, and learned today that the problem disappeared completely without the need for a solution.
Click to expand...

You are probably referring to a solution where a ring is created, allowing more channels to be transferred between any two devices. Two consoles without any stageboxes naturally have two possible bidirectional paths of 48 channels, if you inject more consoles and stage boxes into this to create a ring, there is still 48 channels in each bidirectional path. S16 will forward anything it receives in port A, and anything received in port B will be shifted up by 16 channels. What you use the channels for isn't important.
Imagine you have 3 S16 in standard configuration connected to the monitor console (monitor connected to foh and foh connected to B-port of 3rd S16); anything going into the B port of the third S16 will have been shifted out of existence by the time you reach the A-port of the first S16, but in the other direction, assuming you are actually utilizing all 24 outputs of those S16, there will still be 24 channels available that you could take back to foh in addition to the 48 channels going down the usual path. Swapping things around, you could increase the number of channels going from foh to mon. Again, the purpose might vary, it could be to utilize effects in the second console as inserts or send return effects in the first console, sub-mix on the second console, record more than 32 channels utilizing two consoles, etc.

Sorry for my tardiness, not on here much these days :(~:-(~:sad:
 
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